You don’t get a pass because your 13 year olds of choice are japanese and drawn characters. It’s creepy as fuck and I am judging you for it.
I have to ask how this is an unpopular take? Like even in online spaces, I see people with anime PFPs getting a lot of shit and anti-lolicon sentiment is on the rise, thankfully.
In what space would this take be unpopular in any way?
I don’t think it unpopular, it’s the most normie take ever. Anime and Hentai are just another medium for every fetish that exists and there’s some really weird stuff out there. Personally I don’t get those specific ones, but also don’t see it as harming anyone, and also that it doesn’t “activate” the same part of the brain.
I literally run a Mastodon server specifically for non-toxic English-first anime/etc fans and I understand where you’re coming from. I created the community for a lot of the same reasons
That said, you are projecting an extreme puritanical Western philosophy onto a culture that is dramatically different for deeply ingrained cultural reasons.
Teenage stories are prevalent because of the concept “seishun” (springtime of youth). Japanese culture is extremely rigid and conformist, and as a consequence highschool is viewed as the time in life where you have the most freedom to try new things, express yourself, and discover your passions. Watching teens experience their first love, for example, is a cathartic release for people who don’t have the freedom to make drastic changes to their identity anymore. It is a depiction of someone discovering a new identity, and embracing change.
“Kawaii” (cute) culture has deep roots in Shinto spiritualism. For a large part of Japanese history, due to mortality rates among children below the age of 7, children were literally considered not fully human until they reached a certain age. They were “close to the spirits” because they might be reclaimed by the spirit world at any time. This, along with some other tidbits, led to the trope where a spiritual being regresses to look childlike when they lose their spiritual power. It is “closer to the spirit realm”. And because there are many stories about being careful not to malign spirits, this became a reverence for childlike things.
Yes, especially among westerners, the are a lot of people with transgressive tendencies who gravitate towards the medium because it’s an easy mask for their predilections. But you would do well to more about the history of the culture and medium you’re attacking.
Because the way you present your position right now just makes you look like an ignorant westerner who didn’t bother to ask “why” before painting an entire culture with a single brush.
I hear this and sympathize.
…But. Honestly? It’s not just western fans that are the problem. A few anime shows I researched seem to use underage sex appeal (or other problematic depictions, like toxic relationships) to draw attention, to make money.
At some point that’s not a cultural difference or misunderstanding; it’s pandering. The showrunners know what they’re doing. I’d argue that is exploitation of Japanese culture.
And even if they’re rejected by fans like you, these problematic shows seem to be immensely popular.
And american tv shows don’t sexualize teenagers constantly?
every type of media panders to it’s fans… that’s the entire point.
and you are welcome to not watch if if that isn’t what you enjoy.
I have no doubt media you consume can be criticized as problematic from various POV that aren’t your own. And yet, you still consume it.
This is classic ‘it’s cringe when you do it/enjoy it, but based when I do it’
They didn’t defend american TV shows sexualizing teens, why even bring that in to the conversation like they are? Both are wrong. No one said one is ok and the other not…pedo is pedo is pedo.
A couple of things:
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Trashy western sex appeal (or tacticool fetish, drug glorification, or whatever) is a fair point. That’s a problem. Some of those trashy western shows are popular, too.
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But I don’t buy whataboutism. It doesn’t make either thing okay.
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Some popular anime really takes things to an… extreme.
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And even outside the notorious anime, I kept finding problematic tropes when I tried to get into anime, like these women written in a way that got me to squirm in my seat and turn off my TV. When I sample critically acclaimed western TV/animation, this is not such an issue; I don’t mean to make a comparison, but just to convey that anime sampling made me uncharacteristically uncomfortable.
My point is that you, a westerner, being comfortable with Western media but uncomfortable with Japanese media, is not as much indicative of the character of the content as it is indicative of the things that have been normalized for you vs the things that have been normalized for others.
That’s the thing you’re missing: every culture has problematic content, every culture gets desensitized to their own problematic stuff but not others’, and every culture has complex reasons why those things developed there.
I promise you: people around the world squirm at your favorite media just as much as you squirm at theirs, because your cultural history, standards, Overton Window, and exposure to media are significantly different.
You have been describing your subjective experiences as if they provide objective facts about the content. It is hard to step back, recognize your own cultural biases, and remove them before assessing both other cultures’ media and your own culture’s.
Like, imagine an American saying “I’ve sampled a lot of American food and almost never find it disgusting. But when I sample food from other countries I frequently find things I don’t like.” Wouldn’t you be like “yeah? And? Obviously that’s because you grew up with American food”
Ah yes of course, your romantic depictions of children are ok because they’re nuanced and cultural and any adults who call it weird just aren’t cultured enough to appreciate all that n
uaonce.Did you even read what I wrote? Or did you find the first sentence you didn’t like and skipped straight to the reply button?
Because I never said it was okay. I flat out stated that there are shows I refuse to watch due to their problems.
These issues are complex. Most cultures around the world have serious problems when you step back from your own subjective experiences. Getting btfo about one media subculture or another without understanding the “why” is unhelpful and ignorant. And many of the things you interpret one way are intended and interpreted extremely differently by the other culture. Everything I’ve said is about identifying the difference between actual degeneracy and cultural norms, and gracefully putting all of it in the proper cultural context.
If you just wanted to come here and stroke your own sense of moral superiority then piss off.
The cultural and histotical signifucance of your horny demon child anime does not justify it existing or stop it from being pedo shit.
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If what you said explained everything then there would be no need for the “looks like a 13yo, but actually a 1000yo dragon” trope.
Sure, some of it can be explained by cultural things that are totally acceptable. There’s still a lot that can’t be though.
I did actually already explain that one (spiritual beings regressing to younger forms as they lose power) but here’s the full version from a while back when I got curious about this specific trope: https://docs.google.com/document/d/18xJbetvBNam51ZJaj7jdaMppRXls6ilrK-IoOQ3Czt0/
And to be clear, my goal has never been to justify the inappropriate sexualization of minors. Rather, my goal is to share the context for why these things developed as they have, and provide guidance on distinguishing between actual degeneracy and cultural misunderstandings. There is certainly plenty of anime with highly degenerate content, but there is also a lot of anime with content that appears to be a degenerate sexualization of a minor to a Western audience while a Japanese audience does not perceive it that way at all (rather than seeing it that way and allowing it)
Here’s an excerpt, the summary conclusion:
The origin of the trope wherein long-lived, mature spirits revert to a childlike appearance when weakened is a convergence of religious history, folklore, and modern media mechanics. It is not a singular invention but a sedimentation of:
Theological Iconography: The Gohō dōji (servant child) and Wakamiya (new spirit) established the “divine boy” as a vessel of servitude and potentiality.
Folklore Dynamics: The Deceptive Disguise of Shuten-dōji and the Vital Fluid mechanics of the Kappa established that power can be masked or drained.
Modern Codification: Kishin Dōji Zenki systematized these elements into a “sealed form” mechanic, while Bleach and YuYu Hakusho added pseudo-scientific layers of “spiritual density” and “energy storage.”
Visual Culture: The SD/Chibi art style provided a commercially viable visual language for this “diminished state,” transforming the terrifying into the toy-ready.
Ultimately, the trope persists because it resonates with the fundamental Japanese spiritual worldview: divinity is not static or linear. It is fluid, capable of expansion and contraction, and intimately tied to the cycle of renewal. A weakened god does not end; they simply start over, small and full of potential, waiting for the prayer, the seal-breaking chant, or the return of faith that will allow them to grow once more.
I don’t think you understand the criticism. It isn’t the child entity existing that’s at issue. Yes, that paper gives context to how it started in the culture. That’s fine. It’s the sexualization that’s the issue. This does not provide any cultural context that makes that acceptable.
Western cultures also have similar cultural concepts, with all kinds of spirits and things inhabiting child bodies, but we don’t have (much) sexualized children spirit things in media.
Then you would need to point me to a specific instance of sexualization for me to comment on it.
There is a prevalent problem of western viewers seeing “3000 year old dragon in a child’s body” and immediately sexualizing it (“it’s just an excuse for …”) when the Japanese audience doesn’t view it that way. That’s what I’m trying to address.
If you have a specific character in mind I’m happy to help distinguish whether it is truly degenerate (certainly possible) or just a cultural misunderstanding of the intent.
I haven’t watched anime in quite a while (with the exception of CP Edgerunners, which does have a character that is sexualized and appears as a child, because of mods I guess). I can’t name any specific ones off the top of my head, and I do not want to search for them. You know they exist though. Saying “you need to point out specific ones” is trying to put it all on me. It’s not like this is some small thing that has only been done a few times.
I genuinely can think of only three off the top of my head that are overtly problematic. I’m not arguing that they don’t exist. We all know they exist. But people tend to talk like it’s the majority. That every time there’s a mismatch between mental age and physical appearance it’s a perverted excuse to creep on kids.
And it’s just not. It’s always easy to find examples of the worst things a medium has to offer. What I’m asking is for people to show me the things that make them think it’s the rule, not the exception. Because I could sit here and diatribe for hours about every instance I know of with a “old being in young body” trope but I know that just come off as making excuses. So I want to address your specific concerns.
EDIT: And it’s kinda funny when you bring up Edgerunners, since that’s a property managed by a Polish company with some insanely grotesque hypersexualized content that is deeply fucked up before even getting to the anime.
I don’t see anyone saying it’s the rule. They’re saying that it happens, and it’s excused. You apparently agree with that, and that it shouldn’t happen I assume too?
As for CP/Edgerunners, sure. I don’t think hyper-sexualization is an issue, but fine. The show is anime though, made in Japan I believe. It uses tropes that are from anime, like the character that looks like a child, which aren’t from any of the other Cyberpunk media. The whataboutism here is totally off topic. It doesn’t excuse anything. It’s purely just “but they do other things!” This topic is not about hyper-sexualization. It’s about sexualizing child characters.
Well that’s a bad faith response if I’ve ever seen one. Just pretending anime isn’t like 30 percent pedo shit?
lol ok buddy, 30%? How many have you watched vs being shown shit by people like you pushing a specific narrative about it?
Do I need to run down the Top 50 anime of all time for you, so you can do some actual math instead of posting ignorance?
Based cultural context here.
There is a lot of anime that creeps me out.
There’s some good stuff out there, but Jesus Christ is there a large pile of problematic anime.
Its like the large pile of racist old cartoons you never see because they don’t run them anymore.
Sure, except we haven’t reached the stage of culturally condemming and not running the creepy anime shows yet and they’re still really popular.
It would be nice to not have to block all the people who post what look like drawings of children.
The majority of shows I actually enjoy either ignore that shit entirely or have the author’s self-insert moment of having a character go, “Now that’s fucked up” to any such things. The most recent one I saw was Spy x Family, the one character is madly in love with his sister. The child in the wildly dysfunctional family takes one look at the situation and in her hilariously understated and dry way just proclaims, “Yuck.” Mind, this is after the object of his affection beats him to a bloody pulp because stop that shit.
Why have the trait? Because there are funny situations that can come from it, especially if you’re willing to make the character almost entirely unlikeable. Which this show does.
I’m sorry, but imo it’s still not funny. To me, this would be like your show having a rape attempt and another character going “omg eww lol”. Like. Doing it isn’t funny, pointing it out isn’t funny, subverting it isn’t funny, conspicuously mentioning how you’re not doing it isn’t funny. It’s just disgusting.
I take your point, but the example I provided and the example you provided is a comparison between apples and battleships. As well, in my personal opinion the example I provided is merely (incredibly, wildly) distasteful while the example you provided is an actual violent crime. There’s an order of magnitude of difference between the two, and I also wouldn’t watch a show that attempts to minimize rape. Let’s not conflate extremely questionable kinks with actual violence and crimes. Adults of consenting age working out their differences in a way that makes an observer either laugh or roll their eyes is a very different scenario from criminal sexual assault.
Ooh, this is a spicy one, and definitely unpopular.
Is that thinking logically consistent? Yes. Is it pervasive? Yes. Is it sane?
Does putting a badger as my profile picture mean I want to fuck the badger? Oh god, is my manager a closet badger buggerer?!? Holy Jesus, does my elderly coworker wants to fuck her cat, and does the younger guy wants to fuck a Ferrari… What kind of twisted society do I inhabit?!?
Nope, definitely not sane.
Sorry but that kind of inference of “profile picture = thing I want to fuck” is definitely unpopular for a reason.
I disagree I think that’s really poor framing.
Backgrounds are a great example. A classic dude with his hot biker chick background vs grandma with a background of her grandkids.
You’re not gonna imply the same why to it because they both are backgrounds. But I know why they both have those backgrounds.
Same vibe if you decorate your place with this. Grandma has kids of his grandkids, classic dude has hot babes lining his walls. Different reasons, one is still cringe and uncomfortable
First of all - you have a point. Certain things are seen as creepy.
Secondly, it’s not a good one. It rests on the presumption that you “know why they both have those backgrounds”. No offense, but men who liked to sew were seen as creepy.
By your logic, a good citizen should report anyone with an anarchist symbol on their desktop because they are plotting active insurrection (we all know why they have them right).
The reality is they could just like the pattern and have no idea of the context, or their vision of the context could be different (Planescape Anarchs ftw), or (and let’s be honest here) it could be Ankh-zone levels of misunderstanding, or let’s really go for it - they could just be all mouth to fit in.
Grandmas should love their grandkids, but how many really do (ye gods I’ve met some awful grandparents)? Guys should all be sexually aggressive, except a lot of eggs need a vision (how many gender dismorphic men dream of the childhood they never had - fyi this is 100% of the people I know with anime schoolgirl avatars) and a lot of men try to hide who they really are behind d false machismo (the overcompensation of closeted gay men being legenday). Funny how that works.
I’ll judge folks for who they are, not how I want to see them.
You are free to think weebs are wierd but it is cunterproductive to water down the term pedophile to include people who like anime with school aged characters.
I think media that is creepy, wierd or gross need to be allowed to exist. It is important to be able to explore topics that make people uncomfortabe and I think that freedom necessitates the tolerance of works whose artistic merit is unclear as long as they don’t cause direct harm.
Anime doesn’t depict the sexualisation of minors as a bad thing. It normalises, relishes, and straight up comodifies it.
Plenty of it does, plenty doesn’t. And I can’t bring myself to see the issue when it’s about high school characters with other high school characters where the appeal is from a culture where high school is often seen as a nostalgic great time that people just want to reexperience through media. And average teenagers are objectively horny as fuck.
The sexual harrassment that is often part of that that is also normalized is the far bigger issue. But that happens regardless of the supposed age of the characters.
The normalization of sexualized children is harmful.
It would probably be for the best if pedophiles and child sexual abusers weren’t considered the exact same by the general public considering one harms people and the other appears to be a mental disorder (or maybe just a sexuality), but that won’t happen for a long time if ever.
No, I’m calling this out.
We have a disagreement in another community to which you name call me and mock me having depression in response to that disagreement, and then you come here and essentially vaguepost calling me pedo adjacent because of my profile picture?
I like Osaka because she’s relatable and gives me comfort as a character that speaks to who I am, not because I think she’s attractive. I genuinely have no words to how low this is.
Not everything is about you. You are not the only one with an anime school girl avatar on the fediverse.
I get that you have terrible issues that it was wrong of me to dismiss as your time of ‘big sad’ from which you recovered, and that my choice of words really hurt your feelings. I am sorry.
This post though was not about you. I am not interested in any sort of interaction or connection with you and was not inspired or motivated by you to make this post.
That you happen to also have an anime school girl avatar is happenstance.
Your profile pic is a red flag regardless of how you try to frame it
Me liking a character from a series because she represents my experience growing up with undiagnosed inattentive ADHD: “wow, she’s literally me, it feels nice feeling seen”
Random internet strangers: “Well you see, that’s a red flag because clearly you must have an attraction to children and there can be no other reason why you like this character. I didn’t make this weird at all!”
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Hey buddy, these you by chance?
Go pick another fight.
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I don’t know what to tell ya man, I literally highlighted why I like the character and why I use them as a profile pic, and you’re actively choosing to ignore that fact in order to paint me as something I’m not.
End of the day, I explained my rationale, you’re rejecting it attempting to paint me as something I’m actively showcasing I’m not, and thereby you’re the person putting a sexual connotation here while trying to project that narrative onto me.
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I worry about your social circle that you think this is unpopular.
I’m talking about the people I see online.
Shit like this is why I stopped watching anime. The normalized pedophilia and xenophobia is too much.
(Unrelated but another reason I stopped watching was because I couldn’t stand the squeaky falsetto female voices that Japanese culture forces women to have. I always watched a dub whenever possible.)
There are plenty of great animes without any of the aforementioned, don’t think you need to quit it all together. Just avoid the obvious glorifying of sexual assault/harassment and child/teenager sexualization ones and call out people for supporting and normalizing those.
There’s still a ton of anime that don’t have the usual turnoffs. Shows like ACCA: 13 Territory Inspection Dept. and Mushi-Shi and Orb: On the Movements of the Earth. I have a whole list of them if anyone’s interested
Based opinion
Idgaf if the character you’re drooling over is canonically X, Y or Z; if they have been drawn like a child then the artist drawing them has done so intentionally (two points if you can guess why they draw characters like that)
I’m sure you’re reading into it too much. Artists don’t code their fetishes into things.
That might seem like a joke but it’s kno- ahem
If your argument was true, then GTA or other violent games should cause mass shootings and lots of killings. They don’t, because they in principle work the same as cultural works. But they don’t. Now you’re gonna go into an ad hoc argument filled up with fallacies, because what you’re saying is just simply false.
He’s not making a causal argument that the media causes something to happen. Just that someone who creates media has a specific intent when they do it. They’re not the same thing.
Your argument is fundamentally flawed because you’re discussing the media causing something, and the comment above is discussing media made for something. I don’t think anyone is making the claim sexualizing (things that appear to be) children in anime is causing people to have sexual relations with children. People are saying that sexualizing children in anime is done specifically to appeal to a subset of people that we should not be making media for.
No, because the problem is again that only if something causes real and verifiable harm, it can be considered bad, but as I exposed, that content doesn’t cause any harm at all and it can even avoid harm to be done because of the fact that they’ll release these impulses into/towards something safer and harmless.
If your only argument is moral repulsion or mere distaste, then your position is invalid by nature.
I feel like the normalization is a net negative, but not something grotesque. Obviously younger characters are necessary for specific narratives. It also allows for specific people (several standard deviations outside of normal) to feel comfortable with ever-more misanthropic fantasies.
But hey, so does AI, so…
Douses the internet in gasoline and lights a cigar
Yeah, AI is when everything goes into shit, because it’s trained with pictures and videos of real children. That’s fucked up.
Also it enable abusers to harass people online with deepfakes.
Normalizing it does cause harm. It makes them think their behavior is more acceptable than it is.
Now you’re gonna go into an ad hoc argument filled up with fallacies, because what you’re saying is just simply false.
Good job trying to get ahead of it, but unfortunately no, I’m simply going to ask what you think my argument is.
Adult curves are difficult. Same reason high fashion models all are shaped like boards.
On the contrary, the most common sexualization I found of young/child characters add/use most of the times mature sexual features, including curves: next time cover the face or immagine a face swap, if what remains is compatible with developed sexual attributes the sexyness is plain neuron activation… I only cold shiver when inmature body features or proportions are highlighted or detailed in a sexual context or attitude, those are the disgusting ones… at least for me
Ohhhh yeah. that shit. Yaah… used to be on multiple fake sites before AI took the fun out of it and it was common to get guys that would hit the forums with fakes made using headshots of actresses that were from when they were UA. Usually the site mods would pull down the image then have a chat with the faker and if they kept at it then they got them banned. The one that was top of the UA offender list for years was the actress that portrayed Hermione Granger from Harry Potter films. IIRC, that was Emma Watson. It was exasperating at times.
Money?
But… But you don’t understand! That mostly naked 12 year old looking girl who behaves like a young, spoiled immature brat is really the oldest, most powerful… Uh… Demon or something from the… Uh… Whatever hell circles.
Or was it a 12,000 year old dragon who looks like a little girl and gets stalked by a middle aged man? No wait, that was Fire Emblem.
Oh by the way; this is also why I’m uncomfortable with Midna. Yes I know what her proper appearance is supposed to be. But until then she looks like a weird little girl in oddly revealing skin tight clothes.
Not sure this is an unpopular opinion. At least not the people I know unless they are defending it behind closed doors.
I wish there was a block anime feature to Lemmy
It’s super easy…
I filter what I can, but it ain’t 100%
I almost never see anime with my filters. Most anime posts are from anime comms or anime servers instead of random
it really isn’t, or if it is it isn’t intuitive and I would love to learn. (can I please stop seeing the idiots that think AI will just go away in a few years)
You are responsible for your feed. That means you need to actively block what you don’t want to see. You can block on 3 levels. Block the Author, Community, or Instance. It’s very effective. Start wide, then go narrow. After a few weeks of scrolling and blocking, now I don’t see any politics and I engage with posts I care about. Sure, there’ll be random comments still I encounter trying to bring that stuff into the discussion, but more and more time now passes between having to block individual people.
One thing I agree it is harder to do for are general communities like this one since there are no word filters. But again that’s a risk you take allowing general communities in your feed.
Maybe it depends on what client you use, but on Mlem it’s very easy.
can I please stop seeing the idiots that think AI will just go away
aw, someone yucking your AI slop yummy?
Aren’t you the guy that defends pedophilia?
no, mostly just tired of the wishful thinking that it will vanish / be regulated out if existence, I won’t deny I think LLMs can be helpful but are also extremely harmful to the internet.
well, good news: AI is going to go away. It’s bubble is going to pop, it’s going to take out a huge chunk of the economy, it’s foolish, single purpose infrastructure will go down as one of the stupidest investments of human civilization, and it’ll be a punchline for generations like tulip futures and the segway changing humanity.
edit: go back to reddit ffs, they love ai garbage
I don’t give a shit about the companies, the models aren’t going away.
the models aren’t going away.
sure bud.
that’s like saying: z80 microprocessors might go away but the software will stick around.
no, there will be better, newer things created. your models are LLMs. hardly worthy of your adoration
We are all comfortable with sexual liberation until a point we are not. The ideological framework underpinning this has gaps.
