It won’t be that easy. The centrists are more like rightwing. They delivered a nasty immigration law and THEY installed the far-right with their gamble and bad politics. We won a battle but the war isn’t over…
it’s quite a simplistic view. Even in the left side you can have some flavours, so you still have to check how they will compromise and not stab you in the back. We’re in that kind of fucking shit in France right now.
In America, you’re kinda fucked, but worse. If you had elected Bernie Sanders (“left”), maybe you would have a chance, but now you’re stuck with a neolib old geezer (your center I guess, but it’s a bad joke), and a far-right dictator. Good luck with your middle ground…
What’s frustrating is progressives already won the fight back in 08…
But instead of Obama putting his people in charge of the DNC (national Dem party) he just ignored the party, because the party ignored (or even hurt) his campaign.
So when Obama left office, the party went right back to their old bullshit.
Now we need to do it all over again.
It’s honestly not that hard to fix, just ever since 08 the DNC has fought a lot harder to ensure progressives dont control the party.
Every election that goes by that a progressive doesn’t win, the party locks it down tighter.
This election they removed delegates from an entire state for our primary, because they always went first and kept voting progressive.
And by and large, people just didn’t care…
Hell, lots of Americans still don’t even know New Hampshire had their delegates stolen.
Obama was never a true progressive. His signature legislative victory was literally just yhe Republican health care plan from 10 years earlier. It was literally based on Romney’s overhaul of the Massachusetts health insurance reforms as governor.
His signature legislative victory was literally just yhe Republican health care plan from 10 years earlier.
It was actually a more conservative (shitty) version of Romney’s plan.
But his campaign was progressive, and it flipped solid red states.
So when the only goal we’re allowed to focus on is stopping trump, we don’t need an actual progressive. A moderate pretending to be progressive will be enough.
It worked for Biden in 2020, but this election he stopped pretending and is only demanding votes.
And what happened afterwards? Because Obama’s failure to make meaningful changes to the average American’s life resulted in the Democrats loosing support in huge swaths of the country and gave us Trump.
I’d say if that held true, Obama would have had a difficult time getting re-elected. He got re-elected effortlessly. People were broadly content, though less energized for his re-election bid.
But what gave us trump was running Hillary. We could have gotten an Obama 2.0 that did the same shit as Obama and had two terms, they’d just now be leaving office.
Well, not that clear cut nowadays. The far right have started getting all about super high tariffs and broadly impeding international trade and also getting rid of people who also generally provide a cheap labor market. Also a general sense of a will to undermine economy for the sake of their beliefs. The promises of lower taxes now come with some costs that likely make it not worth it.
In America centrist are just gullible people who think things like, “the economy is better under a republican.” Without ever realizing the economy they experience is the one that has been reigned in by a democrat which will then be let loose again by a republican just in time for a democrat to regain office.
They say shit like, “I error on the side pro-life when it comes to abortion.” Acting like they were being humane when the real humane thing would be to prevent the suffering of both the mother and the child by building social structures that protect the poor. Things like universal healthcare, universal income, mandatory maternity leave, etc.
Centrist believe the middle ground is if you listen to everyone in earnest then judge based on that. Never seeing that these truths they trust in are never the reality. The reality being is that things are very complicated and if you want to parse out your ideology you’ll have to do more than read the headline.
When you go issue by issue, the overwhelming majority supports left policies and rejects right wing fuckery because right wing fuckery fucks over 90% of people.
Unfortunately most people are idiots and left candidates are morons when it comes to self marketing and expressing ideas, so it’s always a coin flip…
They support “left” policies as long as those policies don’t hurt corporate profits… Then they agree with the right. All they need to do is take that one last little step to the left, embrace the working class, and abandon the ever shrinking right, and they’d never lose again.
Corporate profits and hoarding wealth before paying for society is what hurts 90% of the people. Any individual social policy only hurts a small percentage of people at a time. (I know theoretically an attack on any of us is an attack on all of us, but unfortunately most people only care about things when they are directly effected)
It’s literally this easy…
It just requires the centrists to side with the left.
What I don’t get, is in any country they’re routinely the ones that screech “both sides” when criticized.
Like bro, youre not “the left” your by your own definition “half way”. Why wouldn’t a centrist get criticism from both sides?
It won’t be that easy. The centrists are more like rightwing. They delivered a nasty immigration law and THEY installed the far-right with their gamble and bad politics. We won a battle but the war isn’t over…
Yep, we have three factions in America:
1 and 2 criticize 3
2 and 3 criticize 1
But when it’s time to criticize 2…
If 1 does it, 2 “compromises” with them
If 3 criticizes 2, then 2 starts screaming about “both sides” and saying group 3 is really group 1
It doesn’t make any fucking logical sense, but that’s where we’ve been for decades. And it’s not working.
it’s quite a simplistic view. Even in the left side you can have some flavours, so you still have to check how they will compromise and not stab you in the back. We’re in that kind of fucking shit in France right now.
In America, you’re kinda fucked, but worse. If you had elected Bernie Sanders (“left”), maybe you would have a chance, but now you’re stuck with a neolib old geezer (your center I guess, but it’s a bad joke), and a far-right dictator. Good luck with your middle ground…
What’s frustrating is progressives already won the fight back in 08…
But instead of Obama putting his people in charge of the DNC (national Dem party) he just ignored the party, because the party ignored (or even hurt) his campaign.
So when Obama left office, the party went right back to their old bullshit.
Now we need to do it all over again.
It’s honestly not that hard to fix, just ever since 08 the DNC has fought a lot harder to ensure progressives dont control the party.
Every election that goes by that a progressive doesn’t win, the party locks it down tighter.
This election they removed delegates from an entire state for our primary, because they always went first and kept voting progressive.
And by and large, people just didn’t care…
Hell, lots of Americans still don’t even know New Hampshire had their delegates stolen.
Obama was never a true progressive. His signature legislative victory was literally just yhe Republican health care plan from 10 years earlier. It was literally based on Romney’s overhaul of the Massachusetts health insurance reforms as governor.
It was actually a more conservative (shitty) version of Romney’s plan.
But his campaign was progressive, and it flipped solid red states.
So when the only goal we’re allowed to focus on is stopping trump, we don’t need an actual progressive. A moderate pretending to be progressive will be enough.
It worked for Biden in 2020, but this election he stopped pretending and is only demanding votes.
And what happened afterwards? Because Obama’s failure to make meaningful changes to the average American’s life resulted in the Democrats loosing support in huge swaths of the country and gave us Trump.
I’d say if that held true, Obama would have had a difficult time getting re-elected. He got re-elected effortlessly. People were broadly content, though less energized for his re-election bid.
But he was still able to get a second term.
Biden doesn’t look like he’ll be able to.
Like. You’re right, I agree with what you said.
But what gave us trump was running Hillary. We could have gotten an Obama 2.0 that did the same shit as Obama and had two terms, they’d just now be leaving office.
You got the factions wrong.
Makes more sense when you look at it that way.
It’s because the corporate donors that support 2 are okay with 1 but fucking hate 3 because they threaten profits.
Well, not that clear cut nowadays. The far right have started getting all about super high tariffs and broadly impeding international trade and also getting rid of people who also generally provide a cheap labor market. Also a general sense of a will to undermine economy for the sake of their beliefs. The promises of lower taxes now come with some costs that likely make it not worth it.
I assume this is analogous to 1=Republican, 2=Democrat, 3=Progressive. ? So then usually it’s group 3 that is complaining about “both sides”?
Yeah it’s hard to argue that Macron is a centrist. Sure he was elected as one, but his actions are pretty self explanatory
In America centrist are just gullible people who think things like, “the economy is better under a republican.” Without ever realizing the economy they experience is the one that has been reigned in by a democrat which will then be let loose again by a republican just in time for a democrat to regain office.
They say shit like, “I error on the side pro-life when it comes to abortion.” Acting like they were being humane when the real humane thing would be to prevent the suffering of both the mother and the child by building social structures that protect the poor. Things like universal healthcare, universal income, mandatory maternity leave, etc.
Centrist believe the middle ground is if you listen to everyone in earnest then judge based on that. Never seeing that these truths they trust in are never the reality. The reality being is that things are very complicated and if you want to parse out your ideology you’ll have to do more than read the headline.
When you go issue by issue, the overwhelming majority supports left policies and rejects right wing fuckery because right wing fuckery fucks over 90% of people.
Unfortunately most people are idiots and left candidates are morons when it comes to self marketing and expressing ideas, so it’s always a coin flip…
They support “left” policies as long as those policies don’t hurt corporate profits… Then they agree with the right. All they need to do is take that one last little step to the left, embrace the working class, and abandon the ever shrinking right, and they’d never lose again.
Corporate profits and hoarding wealth before paying for society is what hurts 90% of the people. Any individual social policy only hurts a small percentage of people at a time. (I know theoretically an attack on any of us is an attack on all of us, but unfortunately most people only care about things when they are directly effected)
“It just requires the centrists to side with the left.”
Maybe modern-day Girondins still have some qualms regarding making alliances with the left. Nobody wants to be the new Danton