I respect people’s right to use apple products, but please stop asserting “privacy”, big corps doesn’t give a shit.
Comparatively they are better. Its a duopoly in terms of mobile OSs and one is made by a company who mines data and sells ads as its core. The other sells hardware and subscriptions.
I use linux and I wish for a full featured marketable linux phone someday that can compete but with privacy they absolutely beat google.
I have never owned an iphone amd I am currently debating on getting a pixel to move to gOS.
I’m all for linux, I miss the market before iPhone domination. Weird ass symbian phones, windows phones, nokia taco phones, there was all sorts of stuff. I wish we could have a market like that with lots of diverse phones that all run different operating systems. I also wish we could step away from app stores and we could just start building websites again, phones are fast enough now
The problem is not with Android its with Google But apparently android is from Google even though its open source. Sure, linux phones are nice but they are nowhere near stable.
The problem is we do everything with mobile phones now even banking and security is a big lead here The Banking apps may need to make sure each and every linux phones are secure and may not have any loopholes Which is tedious Even installing a custom rom can hinder the default security sometimes. If any problems arise neither linux phones nor banks can give any warranty As of now android is more secure and stable and theres a lot of time ahead of linux phones to succeed
I’d LOVE to know how many of the comments here were made on an iPhone.
I use an iPhone simply because I refuse to use google services any longer, not because I’m delusional about apple caring about privacy.
Can I use my work shit on a Linux phone or custom Rom. Also what are my hardware options with those.
Linux phones aren’t quite there yet, and one of the big problems from what I understand is simply that the hardware is locked down. Firmware and drivers aren’t readily available, and so supporting handsets is just really hard.
How much money would be needed to build an open source linux phone from the ground up?
I don’t know if they’d even be up for it but at this point I think the best option would be Framework getting into it as theyre already trusted by the community.
But even if we get the hardware down there’s another issue - we need an open source, government approved, bank approved Wallet app. There’s only Google or Apple wallet to store important documents on Mobile at the moment. Frustratingly, some governments are using only those two as a source for national verification which is obviously a problem.
would it not be theoretically possible to run a virtual OS to use an app like that on a linux phone?
Yes, but that it can be temperamental and finicky. If you have a rooted phone currently you need to trick a different service called play protect into thinking that your device is kosher, so to speak; different updates from Google can and have broken the processes that have worked in the past.
Needless to say a solution needs to be robust, the possibility to not access your gov id because a private company changed a process and decides you don’t get to use the same loophole you’ve used till now isn’t great from a technical or security standpoint. I would imagine it’s even more frustrating for non-US citizens as their government is relying on a foreign company with a notably bad track record of keeping services available.
It’s not that such a technology is hard to make, it’s more about adoption. Even better than a particular product we could gather around would be a set of standards that the community could build various products around (so long as they meet those standards). That however feels unlikely from the current US administration and based on the EU’s recent GitHub proclamation on their age verification act.
I would say that completely FOSS Linux OS won’t ever be as smooth experience as business solution. Jolla has developed SailfishOS which is mostly open decade now and it is quite stable. Also has android emulator where you can use most android apps, but not all. In my opinion we should support that as much as possible to have true alternative. Also EU should start supporting ita development
I’m pretty sure there’s still products like that. I bought a PinePhone once upon a time.
If it’s designed for Android, not a phone using desktop Linux, but you can on a custom ROM which is probably a variant of AOSP.
Also what are my hardware options with those.
Incredibly specific and restrictive, do your homework carefully. Pixels are usually (always?) good, which is ironic, while certian manufacturers like Samsung are right out.
I found a model that works secondhand and I’m as happy as a pig in shit with it, FYI.
Yea, pixels don’t have an SD slot so that’s out.
Isn’t work supposed to provide you with a phone?
They don’t deem it necessary and it’s not really but it helps me to not be chained to my desk all day when I can check Teams and Email on the go.
I wish but then I’ve been told by manager bro that no one wants to carry around two phones
@DeathByBigSad Big corpus care about MARKETING privacy as a sizeable portion of the market makes purchases based on perception of security. Personally security isn’t very important to me. If anything I might be more likely to purchase something if I believe it to be insecure thereby making it easier for me to hack it and do what I want with it.
The dropped Chromecast for a new device. I was sideloading apps on that. I wonder how long before we have a “fix”
This meme brought to you by people who have made android part of their personality. People who if they knew how to asset security, wouldn’t be android users.
the only people making a mobile os their whole personality i know of are apple users
Wow, that’s so cool OP that you think we should be allowed to use apple products
I hate the term sideloading. It’s a made-up propaganda word to make it seem scary or wrong to install software on your device. All in the name of corporate profits.
I like the term sideloading. It describes an installation method we don’t otherwise have a word for.
I’m loading a software package from the side – from a system running parallel to the target system.
I do hate the use of the term to try to demonize a completely standard practice. Like when using wget to request files from a fileserver was described as hacking.Yea, who are google and apple to tell us what to do with OUR devices that WE OWN anyways?
I will never buy a smartphone(or a computer) that I can’t replace the stock OS on, because the transaction for me and the device maker should end when I buy their device, period.
The entire business model of selling me a device only to then extract the maximum possible amount of data points, sell that data to fuck-knows-who(compromising my privacy, and possibly safety), and maximizing targeted ads to attempt to manipulate me is beyond absurd.
Ironically I own a Google device, but only to use an operating system that respects me and my choices. If Google was just providing device trees for their new phones…
Due to our favourite kind of software (banking apps) I am unable to use another kind of operating system at this point.
Also I don’t sideload. I install software on a computer that I own, because I paid actual money for it.
GraphenenOs?
Exactly.
It’s like “jaywalking” oooh oh no don’t “jay” walk, don’t “side” load; conform to our business machines! Your natural existence and free movements are an inconvenience to us therefore you have to change.
Or whatever bullshit–however they couch it.
Very good point!
Both cars and smartphones are products that actively exploit us, increasingly lock themselves down with black box hardware and software, and have societal dependence practically enforced by law at this point.
I want a future where they’re cool again, and not 100% necessary for day to day existence.
“Warning: If you unlock your phone, it might explode or you might become a terrorist. Also we won’t pay your money back even if there is faulty hardware because there is non zero chance you might have caused it while unlocking”
Apple does give a shit about privacy… in the same way that companies care about gay pride. Right now privacy is still a selling point for Apple compared to other companies. This is why they are still so loud about on device AI and pretty much silent when any of their features require cloud processing. But am under no illusions that will remain the case forever.
As far as “dumb phones” are concerned; they don’t exist anymore. It’s still a device with an OS, GPS (as required by the law that created the Amber Alert here in the US), and an Internet connection, that makes calls using VoLTE or similar. Most of the ones you can buy today run things like KaiOS which has an App Store and comes with Google Maps preinstalled.
If you want real privacy you need to disconnect from the Internet which pretty much means no phones at all now that everything is VoIP.
Apple has 2x very publicly resisted government demands for user data and campaigned against laws to institute backdoors into their software and services. They’re not perfect by any means but they are by far a lesser evil.
A fully capable Linux phone is the dream, but most people aren’t going to use one. For the majority of people, I would recommend the company that refused to listen to the US and EU about weakening the security of their products over the one with the business model of relying on advertising to you and selling your data.
You’re saying the same thing as the top of the thread. All of this is for now. At some point it could be advantageous for Apple to stop resisting US demands. It is important to understand and prepare for that while also accepting, for now, Apple provides the most corporate privacy of the corporate privacy options in the US.
The three of us are in agreement.
And they have proven if the government makes a law requiring access they’ll do it. They have done it for China and Russia.
That’s literally any company though. If you want to legally operate in a certain country, you need to abide by the country’s laws. Sure, pirate FOSS projects could exist. But that’s not the kind of shit that will be sold in retail, because it would literally be illegal to sell.
This is like complaining that Japanese phones can’t disable the camera shutter sound. It’s because Japan regulated the shutter sound, because upskirting was a major issue. So phones legally sold in Japan are required to have the shutter sound permanently set at a high volume, even when the ringer is silenced. That isn’t the phone maker’s fault.
Apple campaigned against regulation like what you’re complaining about. It isn’t Apple’s fault that the regulation was passed anyways.
Well yeah they kinda have to at that point in order to continue conducting business in that country. What about this is specific to Apple?
They just do that for brand optics. Because researchers found the apple privacy settings off/on made no difference to the packet of info sent to apple. Their privacy is a facade.
I can believe this. Apple loves to talk big about privacy but their source for it is “trust me bro.”
The issue in one of the cases (San Bernardino) had nothing to do with iCloud data, and everything to do with the data on the device itself. The FBI request was a backdoor into the device. Apple (rightly) refused to add a backdoor to access the phone.
You are referencing data that goes to Apple’s iCloud servers, which Apple was happy to provide because they held the encryption keys. Since then, they have enabled an E2E encryption feature for iCloud data.
I am happy to discuss Apple’s shortcomings, but let’s be clear on which ones we’re discussing
Its the don’t track privacy type settings where you opt out, research found it was a toggle button that did nothing.
They only tout privacy to gain market, they would sell us out for a dollar
Is this separate from Advanced Data Protection, which is E2E encrypted data on iCloud?
“Don’t track privacy type settings” isn’t very descriptive, so apologies if I’m sounding any way I’m just trying to be clear about what the complaint here is.
And to be clear, is this a privacy concern exclusive to Apple?
Totally unrelated to the E2E, I will have to search for it. It was a year or two ago. Apple claimed turning off the data collection kept your use private to you, but was just a lie, they collected all your data anyway.
And yes, its an IPhone setting not an android setting. Google is another issue.
Ok please let me know when you have more information I am very interested to know.
Was giving literal gold to Donald Trump part of that campaign to save the users?
No that was Tim Apple kissing the ring to minimize tariffs. And it worked.
Apple has 2x very publicly resisted government demands for user data and campaigned against laws to institute backdoors into their software and services.
Indeed.
They also immediately folded in China after being given the ultimatum of comply or die.
All it would take is Trump to give the same ultimatum…
Yeah I would expect the same of any company. They have to comply with the laws of the country they do business in. This same requirement compelled them to finally add USB-C to iPhones and allow alternate app stores.
I wouldn’t blame Google for doing the same, so I’m not going to blame Apple for it either. Do you actually expect any company their size to do any different?
To the extent they’re legally able to, Apple has absolutely resisted compromising their device security features to aid law enforcement.
Good thing Trump’s distracted by gold baubles.
Mostly agree except about disconnecting from the internet, classic SMS/voice calls aren’t any more private than VoIP.
Your best bet for location privacy is E2E encrypted services like Signal over wifi, plus MAC randomization and a VPN on untrusted networks. I’d say GrapheneOS is good enough for most people, but mobile Linux has also come a long way.
Encryption doesn’t stop them from knowing what tower you are attached to. Simply having a phone on you even with the GPS and WiFi off (or with the newer phones even the whole phone off) would still be enough to get your location to within a few hundred feet. The original iPhone used triangulation exclusively for location.
Honestly haven’t heard that one. I’ve only heard “I used android for freedom. If android is becoming a shitty apple, I’ll just use the better apple”
That’s sort of where I’m at right now to be honest. Google has removed or plan to remove basically everything that gave Android an edge over iOS. Meanwhile Apple, for all their flaws, has actually put out some pretty compelling offerings with the iPhone 17 line both hardware- and software-wise, and has made meaningful improvements in the realm of repairability and side-loading, albeit under regulatory pressure. At this point, it’s looking like going to be harder than I’d like to choose between the two when I go to replace my phone in 3-5 years - provided both companies stay on their current trajectories.
Here’s how I think about it:
Google’s business model involves advertising to you, tracking your activity, mining your data, and selling that information to other entities while also using it to advertise to you more. It’s their main profit-driver. You are the product.
Apple’s business model is to sell you the hardware, give you the software and make it (mostly) depend on the services to keep you locked in. You (the user) are not the product, their devices and services are.
Of the two, which is the lesser evil?
Normies are not going to fully convert to Linux phones and open-source software any time soon. In the meantime as far as privacy is concerned, Apple can do much worse and Google can do much better.
Apple’s transitioning to a services based company, which includes ad tech. They’re better than Google only for now. The enshittification of their OS’s has been ongoing, and will only get worse. macOS has had so many super user features removed, and so many iOS walled-garden regressions added.
I’m not going to argue this point, but am more interested in discussing issues they currently have than issues we think they’ll have eventually. If we’re gonna vilify a company let’s make sure we’re doing it based on stuff that’s actually happened so we know they deserve it.
To be fair, a lot of those features have been getting added back, a lot of walled-garden regressions removed as well. I guess this part is more subjective and based on your workflow. The feature churn itself is the only true constant.
That’s been my reason to switch. When Android 12 removed or hid a lot of the functionality and customization that I used daily on my Pixel 4a5g, I switched to an iPhone. It’s a shame I had to sell back my iphone 14 pro to my provider (due to the plan I had chosen), otherwise I’d have kept that one, but I’m currently running the 16 Pro, and intend to keep that for another 4 or 5 years.
There is no word called sideloding it’s called installing software
“Sideloading” means “defeating a walled garden to install software”
That’d be like saying “I totally trust Google with all of my so-called offline documents by using their totally online suite. They totally wouldn’t like, be analyzing the contents once I am online or anything, would they?”
Yeah I find it hilarious that anyone thinks apple cares about privacy. They clearly have been cultivating that image but it rings pretty hollow to me. They just chose something that would be easy to say they care about that an ad company clearly also doesn’t care about.
They care about privacy as they consider themselves the owner of your data.
Like all of this is untrue? You can have you iPhone or whatever at to encrypt shit locally and Apple has no ownership of the data? This obviously comes with tradeoffs, but people are so effing uninformed and apparently riding the dick of google as hard as they can.
It’s better than that. Encryption is always enabled for anything stored on icloud. Like you can’t turn it off
Yes, but normally Apple has keys to that, you can enable further encryption, so you own your own keys. This has some additional considerations, but if you want to make is very very hard for anyone to access your data, that’s what you do. Or I guess get an android and load in to google cliud, I’m sure that will be fine!
I’m so so so so soooooooo over the what phone do you have debate, and now apparently we’ve entered a new one where people who seemingly don’t know anything are making trash memes. Joy.
Meanwhile the rest of the world is a burning pile of shit. Congrats, ‘dumb’ phone people and whoever else thinks they are hot shit. You’re not, and this is all pointless.
Apple has the keys though I less you use advanced data protection.
They have the keys for your account, yes. The data is another story if you turn on Advanced Data Protection. In that case, they could access your account but the data would be useless.
They do not have encryption keys or a backdoor (that we know of) for your physical device. So if you don’t use iCloud and adjust privacy settings you can stay reasonably private on an iPhone. At least more so than on Android.
apple stans are built different.
they will bend over backwards insistently to defend apple on every. single. issue. relentlessly.
apple marketing did get into their heads in a weird cultish kind of way. i’ve met a couple irl, they are kind of scary to think about.
