- cross-posted to:
- brainworms@lemm.ee
- cross-posted to:
- brainworms@lemm.ee
Summary
Germany’s parliament will debate a proposed ban on the far-right Alternative for Germany (AfD) for the first time next week.
The proposal cites the AfD’s increasing radicalism and historically revisionist statements, such as co-leader Alice Weidel’s claim that Hitler was a communist.
Under Germany’s constitution, a party ban requires proof of opposition to constitutional principles.
Critics warn that a ban could portray the AfD as martyrs.
The AfD currently polls in second place at 20% ahead of February elections.
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My grandad who fought in WW2 used to say to me “You don’t speak to Nazis, you shoot Nazis”.
To translate this into modern world: AfD should be banned and its politicians should go to prison. The same with all far right across Europe.
We allowed nazis take power once, we must not make the same mistake again.
We allowed nazis take power once, we must not make the same mistake again.
That ship sailed in November
In Europe. This is about Europe. America is not the center of the world.
My bad, shouldn’t comment with migraines
True, but I did imagine OP as American. OP’s grandpa presumably wasn’t German, anyway. Or they were/are, and are extra cool, I guess.
Yeah, I didn’t bother going to a Remembrance day ceremony this year. It felt redundant when that shit was so front of mind already.
Unfortunately Congress is controlled by Zionist fascists.
Yes, yes it is.
Hoo boy is this the wrong moment to inject a complaint about Zionism.
I honestly can’t tell if this is mistimed “save Palestine” or a dog whistle. Probably the former, given the mention of fascism and the fact this is Lemmy, but you never know on the internet.
Germany should declare Musk a persona non grata
Hmm, would Musk be considered a diplomat? That might actually apply here.
20%?! What the fuck is wrong with people? I know that there are problems in the world, big problems, but you don’t get rid of those by just saying “Ausländer raus!”
People are disgruntled enough to the point that they just want to burn it all down. And these far right radicals/Nazis are often promising that (even though they have zero plans of carrying through and will instead just further enrich themselves at the cost of everything else). This is what happens when you let extreme inequality continue unchecked for decades.
For decades, the elite has been hoarding more and more wealth, while the average worker faces inflation, stagnating wages, and crumbling public services - this is true for most developed countries.
Same as with Trump in 2016, a large number of German people are (rightfully) dissatisfied, and (mistakenly) think that a radical candidate will solve their problems, and “stick it” to the elite and current ruling parties.
The answer is the same everywhere - the elite should stop hoarding the wealth that is created by the workers, and the government should use that money to invest into the common needs of the people (e.g. good education, healthcare and public infrastructure). This is the only way that works, but billionaires would rather see fascists on the government that burn countries down, as that doesn’t endanger neoliberal capitalism,
Wealth distribution (wages, cost of living, housing) is one thing.
The demographic changes caused by low birth rates and immigration are not to be underestimated. They have a huge impact on identity, outlook towards the future, and societal cohesion.
A majority of older people, many without children, who only care about their own pensions and benefits are not conducive to societal change, growth, and adaptation. Wealth distribution plays a role here too of course. The younger generations realize they won’t be able to live the lifestyle of their parents is a huge blow to overall morale. Disintegration of institutions (church, unions) only accelerate the alienation and destruction of social cohesion. Families are also much weaker. They are smaller and their members are more likely to live further apart. Divorce adds further instability and disconnection. That all contributes to increased mental health issues and loneliness.
Society is in crisis in many ways. People promising radical change (back to an imaginary glorious past) become more and more attractive.
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A matter of weeks before the election too
You brought it upon yourselves, AfD
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Critics warn that a ban could portray the AfD as martyrs.
So? Martyr the shit out of them.
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Hmm, worth thinking about.
Martyrdom is massively overrated in Western discourse - usually a crackdown just works. Probably exactly because it’s a great excuse not to do scary but necessary things, which is something we’ve grown unused to.
In a recent speech, Alice weidel idolized her grandfather’s generation. Her grandfather was a member of the Nazi party.
AfD goes to length to imply nazism but won’t outright say it.
It’s just Musk without cool gadgets
BAN THE AFD
Seriously, fuck them
Yup. Rising Nazism doesn’t need to be the exact same guys again. That’s just lazy.
Please include musk in this bad and make that ban Europe wide
bittebittebittebitte…
I suspect banning them will make them more powerful than they are. What we really need to do with these movements is to ridicule them at every chance possible, do not only condemn them but actively mock them and treat them with the highest degree of disdain. Make it clear that a shitstain is more worthy of consideration than them. We used to do that with the KKK in the US and it worked wonders.
You have to do it with care. If it comes over as believing that your non-bigoted, non-idiotic culture is superior to the fascists’ culture of bigotry and idiocy, they’ll dig in and rail against snobbish “elites” (that is, people who can string a sentence together and recognize a lie when they hear one). In the USA this sentiment strengthened the fascists and led to Trump winning the presidency twice.
(I know I’m not exactly following my own advice but I’m feeling impatient with these people right now.)
I suspect banning them will make them more powerful than they are.
No. It takes away a huge chunk of their finances and their structures. It will not make them more powerful. This is not Star Wars, and even there, I never understood how Kenobi was supposed to become more powerful by being killed.
What we really need to do with these movements is to ridicule them at every chance possible
People tried that in the US, see how well that worked out?
if violence doesn’t work, then why state uses it?
Violence against movements have a history of galvanizing them. For evidence look at the OG Nazis.
Also a ban, imo, does not qualify as violence. Violence would be if the discussion was to purge them like the roaches they are, but that’s not what’s happening.
The OG Nazis never felt state repression. They would murder people and then judges set them free again because they were “obviously acting in the national interest”. The whole judiciary back then was trained during monarchy and did not consider law passed by mere parliament, the mob, as valid, they basically saw the Nazi’s autocracy as a downgraded version of having an emperor, but at least it wasn’t, *shudder*, democrats.
Have you ever heard of the following?
First they ignore you. Then they laugh at you. Then they fight you. Then you win.
Ridicule is helpful, but not sufficient. The new right has established itself all over western democracies. They have built organizations, institutions, parties, companies, etc.
