societal pressures and the difficulty in finding variety
Are there specific things you’ve missed? And are you more referring to cook yourself or eating out?
Sometimes, it’s just a lack of experience. Obviously, ‘all vegan food in the world’ is less variety on paper than ‘all food in the world’ but in my personal diet the variety of stuff I eat dramatically increased compared to the non-vegan past.
In arts there’s the concept of creative limitation and from my perspective that is 100% applicable to food. Restricting yourself to plant based fosters your creativity to break with traditional recipes, try new combinations, replace X with Y or Z. I feel like I barely eat the same thing twice anymore.
I’m 100% with you on this. It sounds like copium, but creative limitation absolutely comes into play here. Before becoming pescetarian, vegetarian, and then eventually vegan, my diet was terrible and had almost no variety despite the fact that I like to cook for myself. If I went to a restaurant, it would be the one thing I knew I liked. At home, even though I could technically make essentially anything I wanted, there was an intense gravitational pull around meat and cheese keeping me in the same sets of dishes with little variety. It was generic burgers or pepperoni pizza or canned soup or basic burritos or pasta Alfredo/with meat sauce or paninis consisting of 90% meat/cheese and 10% everything else. If I was feeling “healthy”, it was either a type of meat with a baked potato and broccoli or a salad of iceberg lettuce with ranch, garlic croutons, bacon bits, and cranberries.
Now, I try (and often end up loving) new foods almost on instinct including the “weird” ones; I’ve come to understand that so many foods I didn’t previously like were either prepared improperly or I wasn’t getting the right kind; the meals are almost inherently healthier; I use a huge variety of spices and sauces to make my meals different and vibrant every single day; and my dishes don’t revolve around essentially “a single type of meat with some ancillary stuff” or cheese and carbs.
Nothing was physically stopping me from doing that on an omnivorous diet, but I personally would never have because I treated meat and cheese like a crutch.
Antifreeze tastes good but no one thinks a diet that excludes antifreeze is restrictive. Because it’s poison!
Of all the humans who will die this year, about ONE THIRD will die from coronary disease acquired from consuming animal products. And that’s just one way animal products kill us, they make up like five of the top six most common causes of death. It’s fucking antifreeze.
People are shocked to find they enjoy food without antifreeze in it. Feel better after eating food that doesn’t have antifreeze in it. No fucking shit!
It does not limit my culinary world one jot to exclude antifreeze from it. I was also forced to discover there was an entire universe of foods that I had been directed away from, that my culture had been induced to forget. All that weird stuff in the produce section and the farmer’s market, where I used to think, “Who eats that weird shit??” … Now I eat that weird shit! And it’s really good!! I have a whole new set of favourite foods, and now they are so cheap and healthy, I can eat them for every meal if I chose, and I would be more healthy than I was when consuming animal products.
It’s barely even an analogy. They are both poison. They both kill you.
Consult Rule 5 before continuing. And consider actually engaging with the points you disagree with instead of just saying, effectively, “I disagree,” but snottier.
Poor exercise and sedentary lifestyle kills you. Not meat. Plenty of otherwise valid discussion and criticisms to be had instead of just making things up along with absurd comparisons that make you look insane.
But that’s okay, if that’s enough to be actionable then I’ll be pretty able to accept that you just don’t like people calling you out and need a safe space from criticism.
But that’s okay, if that’s enough to be actionable then I’ll be pretty able to accept that you just don’t like people calling you out and need a safe space from criticism.
This is disingenuous. If you go on a Star Trek forum and only want to talk about Star Wars, are moderators creating a “safe space” or are they just being fucking moderators? The rules are clearly posted. Don’t act so wounded.
Poor exercise and sedentary lifestyle kills you. Not meat.
This is just so ignorant I have to come back to it. We’re specifically talking about heart attacks. You know, the widow maker. The thing that kills otherwise healthy men in the primes of their lives. Body builders, fire fighters, people who exercise every day. Sitting around not exercising does not cause you to have heart disease. Where the fuck is the plaque supposed to come from if you are not eating animal products?
I’m not arguing that red meat is bad for you, first off - I’m not the person you were talking to.
That being said - exercise is absolutely connected to lower plaque build up. Actually, many of the comorbidities associated with eating red meat can be fought with exercise.
This idea that sedentary lifestyles are somehow supported and healthy by vegan diets strikes me as borderline ‘ADHD is a superpower’ bullshit.
I suppose you are unaware that there are entire cultures that do not suffer heart attacks. I suppose you are unaware that there is a direct causal relationship between those cultures starting to have heart attacks like Western cultures, and the adoption of Western animal product consumption habits. One third of humans who die this year will die of heart attacks that would not happen if they didn’t consume animal products. It tracks directly with animal consumption. The data is all there if you are brave enough to look. But I guess you need a safe space from facts.
Based on scientific evidence, animal products are not necessarily unhealthy for individual humans. As far as I know at least, the coronary deseases you’ve mentioned are mainly caused by red meat and saturated fats.
Even though an average vegan diet is healthier than an average omnivore diet, you can eat perfectly healthy as an omnivore. Likewise, you can live of only junkfood as a vegan.
Veganism from my perspective should be about stopping animal abuse and protecting the planet. If humanity keeps going as is, climate change will be what will lead to insane suffering to both animals and humans. Veganism is a key part to lower the impact of what’s ahead of us.
Despite the importance of the topic, we should stick to the facts. Comparing every non-vegan diet to drinking anti-freeze is absolutely ridiculous.
There is no healthy amount of meat you can eat. Research “meat all cause mortality” on google scholar or pubmed. You’re effectively saying that there is a threshold of antifreeze consumption that is survivable. It’s never healthy.
I’ve heard the creative limitation argument a few times now. Maybe some of the incredulity people show at the thought of not eating meat is due to a lack of artistry, either in them or in their meals. Food is an art form we practice daily, and the people I’ve known to most violently protest trying a vegan dish (not veganism itself!) seem to overlap with the worst dinners I’ve seen.
If so that would give an easy avenue to lower meat consumption.
Are there specific things you’ve missed? And are you more referring to cook yourself or eating out?
Sometimes, it’s just a lack of experience. Obviously, ‘all vegan food in the world’ is less variety on paper than ‘all food in the world’ but in my personal diet the variety of stuff I eat dramatically increased compared to the non-vegan past.
In arts there’s the concept of creative limitation and from my perspective that is 100% applicable to food. Restricting yourself to plant based fosters your creativity to break with traditional recipes, try new combinations, replace X with Y or Z. I feel like I barely eat the same thing twice anymore.
I’m 100% with you on this. It sounds like copium, but creative limitation absolutely comes into play here. Before becoming pescetarian, vegetarian, and then eventually vegan, my diet was terrible and had almost no variety despite the fact that I like to cook for myself. If I went to a restaurant, it would be the one thing I knew I liked. At home, even though I could technically make essentially anything I wanted, there was an intense gravitational pull around meat and cheese keeping me in the same sets of dishes with little variety. It was generic burgers or pepperoni pizza or canned soup or basic burritos or pasta Alfredo/with meat sauce or paninis consisting of 90% meat/cheese and 10% everything else. If I was feeling “healthy”, it was either a type of meat with a baked potato and broccoli or a salad of iceberg lettuce with ranch, garlic croutons, bacon bits, and cranberries.
Now, I try (and often end up loving) new foods almost on instinct including the “weird” ones; I’ve come to understand that so many foods I didn’t previously like were either prepared improperly or I wasn’t getting the right kind; the meals are almost inherently healthier; I use a huge variety of spices and sauces to make my meals different and vibrant every single day; and my dishes don’t revolve around essentially “a single type of meat with some ancillary stuff” or cheese and carbs.
Nothing was physically stopping me from doing that on an omnivorous diet, but I personally would never have because I treated meat and cheese like a crutch.
Antifreeze tastes good but no one thinks a diet that excludes antifreeze is restrictive. Because it’s poison!
Of all the humans who will die this year, about ONE THIRD will die from coronary disease acquired from consuming animal products. And that’s just one way animal products kill us, they make up like five of the top six most common causes of death. It’s fucking antifreeze.
People are shocked to find they enjoy food without antifreeze in it. Feel better after eating food that doesn’t have antifreeze in it. No fucking shit!
It does not limit my culinary world one jot to exclude antifreeze from it. I was also forced to discover there was an entire universe of foods that I had been directed away from, that my culture had been induced to forget. All that weird stuff in the produce section and the farmer’s market, where I used to think, “Who eats that weird shit??” … Now I eat that weird shit! And it’s really good!! I have a whole new set of favourite foods, and now they are so cheap and healthy, I can eat them for every meal if I chose, and I would be more healthy than I was when consuming animal products.
Maybe people think you’re weird because you make weird analogies like comparing meat to antifreeze
It’s barely even an analogy. They are both poison. They both kill you.
Consult Rule 5 before continuing. And consider actually engaging with the points you disagree with instead of just saying, effectively, “I disagree,” but snottier.
Poor exercise and sedentary lifestyle kills you. Not meat. Plenty of otherwise valid discussion and criticisms to be had instead of just making things up along with absurd comparisons that make you look insane.
But that’s okay, if that’s enough to be actionable then I’ll be pretty able to accept that you just don’t like people calling you out and need a safe space from criticism.
This is disingenuous. If you go on a Star Trek forum and only want to talk about Star Wars, are moderators creating a “safe space” or are they just being fucking moderators? The rules are clearly posted. Don’t act so wounded.
This is just so ignorant I have to come back to it. We’re specifically talking about heart attacks. You know, the widow maker. The thing that kills otherwise healthy men in the primes of their lives. Body builders, fire fighters, people who exercise every day. Sitting around not exercising does not cause you to have heart disease. Where the fuck is the plaque supposed to come from if you are not eating animal products?
I’m not arguing that red meat is bad for you, first off - I’m not the person you were talking to.
That being said - exercise is absolutely connected to lower plaque build up. Actually, many of the comorbidities associated with eating red meat can be fought with exercise.
This idea that sedentary lifestyles are somehow supported and healthy by vegan diets strikes me as borderline ‘ADHD is a superpower’ bullshit.
Making it up, eh? Or are you sticking your head in the sand? lmgtfy
https://duckduckgo.com/?q=all+cause+mortality+meat&ia=web
I suppose you are unaware that there are entire cultures that do not suffer heart attacks. I suppose you are unaware that there is a direct causal relationship between those cultures starting to have heart attacks like Western cultures, and the adoption of Western animal product consumption habits. One third of humans who die this year will die of heart attacks that would not happen if they didn’t consume animal products. It tracks directly with animal consumption. The data is all there if you are brave enough to look. But I guess you need a safe space from facts.
Based on scientific evidence, animal products are not necessarily unhealthy for individual humans. As far as I know at least, the coronary deseases you’ve mentioned are mainly caused by red meat and saturated fats.
Even though an average vegan diet is healthier than an average omnivore diet, you can eat perfectly healthy as an omnivore. Likewise, you can live of only junkfood as a vegan.
Veganism from my perspective should be about stopping animal abuse and protecting the planet. If humanity keeps going as is, climate change will be what will lead to insane suffering to both animals and humans. Veganism is a key part to lower the impact of what’s ahead of us.
Despite the importance of the topic, we should stick to the facts. Comparing every non-vegan diet to drinking anti-freeze is absolutely ridiculous.
There is no healthy amount of meat you can eat. Research “meat all cause mortality” on google scholar or pubmed. You’re effectively saying that there is a threshold of antifreeze consumption that is survivable. It’s never healthy.
I’ve heard the creative limitation argument a few times now. Maybe some of the incredulity people show at the thought of not eating meat is due to a lack of artistry, either in them or in their meals. Food is an art form we practice daily, and the people I’ve known to most violently protest trying a vegan dish (not veganism itself!) seem to overlap with the worst dinners I’ve seen.
If so that would give an easy avenue to lower meat consumption.