The difference explained - eviltoast
  • mellowheat@suppo.fi
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    9 months ago

    Nobody but tankies understand that.

    In Tolkien stories, all the good guys are liberals. Saruman and his uruk-hai are perhaps the most leftist things there are in those stories. Elves are moderate conservatives with some questionable histories.

    • Viking_Hippie@lemmy.world
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      9 months ago

      In Tolkien stories, all the good guys are liberals. Saruman and his uruk-hai are perhaps the most leftist things there are in those stories.

      Welp, that’s simultaneously the most “Enlightened Centrist” thing and the most batshit crazy dumb as a rock thing I’ve read in 2024 so far!

      Donald Trump himself has less stupid takes than that!

      • mellowheat@suppo.fi
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        9 months ago

        and the most batshit crazy dumb as a rock thing I’ve read in 2024 so far!

        Aww, don’t sell yourself short.

    • Annoyed_🦀 @monyet.cc
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      9 months ago

      Saruman and his uruk-hai are perhaps the most leftist things there are in those stories.

      What? How so?

      • mellowheat@suppo.fi
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        9 months ago

        Because I don’t like leftists, probably :)

        No but seriously, I was thinking of the tankie type there, not all leftists. And wrote lazily. Sorry.

          • mellowheat@suppo.fi
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            9 months ago

            Tankies aren’t leftists

            Well yeah, and nazis are technically authoritarian centrists, not the far right. These labels are bad and they should feel bad.

            Sauron

            Different fella. No idea what his politics are, but probably not very liberal.

            • Exocrinous@lemm.ee
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              9 months ago

              No, Sauron is the same character I meant to talk about. The master of Saruman. Sauron is a theocratic dictator, and Saruman is, politically speaking, a Bishop-Duke. His ideology must be the same as Sauron’s because he serves Sauron. And Sauron implements theocratic dictatorship in Isengard and Mordor. Theocratic dictatorship, as you must be aware, is a far right ideology. And nazis are also far right, but I’m not sure why they’re the topic of discussion.

            • explodicle@local106.com
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              9 months ago

              Nazism (/ˈnɑːtsɪzəm, ˈnæt-/ NA(H)T-siz-əm; also Naziism /-si.ɪzəm/),[1] the common name in English for National Socialism (German: Nationalsozialismus, German: [natsi̯oˈnaːlzotsi̯aˌlɪsmʊs] ⓘ), is the far-right totalitarian socio-political ideology and practices associated with Adolf Hitler and the Nazi Party (NSDAP) in Germany.

              But really…

              Never believe that anti-Semites are completely unaware of the absurdity of their replies. They know that their remarks are frivolous, open to challenge. But they are amusing themselves, for it is their adversary who is obliged to use words responsibly, since he believes in words. The anti-Semites have the right to play. They even like to play with discourse for, by giving ridiculous reasons, they discredit the seriousness of their interlocutors. They delight in acting in bad faith, since they seek not to persuade by sound argument but to intimidate and disconcert. If you press them too closely, they will abruptly fall silent, loftily indicating by some phrase that the time for argument is past.

              — Jean-Paul Sartre

    • thedirtyknapkin@lemmy.world
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      9 months ago

      Lol, saruman was more or less a theocratic monarchist with highly authoritarian practices like killing any who opposed his will. He literally used magic to dominate the wills of others. If anyone was leftist in that series it was the Hobbits. They were outright Communist with no government. Though there was certainly still a class structure of sorts there. It’s just tough to get a better look at Hobbit social politics. The books tend to just say “then they talked about their family history for 3 more hours” whenever it comes up.

      Regardless, the stated intent of the story was to relay his experiences with war. Not with any political system. The forces of sauron and saruman just represented war itself. The feeling of its inevitable March towards you no matter how much you don’t want it and dread it. It’s very much how I’ve been feeling lately.

      • DragonTypeWyvern@literature.cafe
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        9 months ago

        Hobbits had a government and a class system. In Tolkien it’s divine monarchies all the way down, some are just God willed and others are… Technically also God willed, because the good guys need bad guys to stab, I guess.

    • abbenm@lemmy.ml
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      9 months ago

      In Tolkien stories, all the good guys are liberals. Saruman and his uruk-hai are perhaps the most leftist things there are in those stories. Elves are moderate conservatives with some questionable histories.

      I hope everyone here appreciates what a special moment this is. This has potential to be the most downvoted comment on Lemmy.

      • imaqtpie@lemmy.myserv.one
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        9 months ago

        That comment somehow manages to be more divisive than the Palestinian conflict. A truly remarkable sequence of specious assertions that is guaranteed to piss off vast swathes of the population. Almost brings a tear to my eye

        • abbenm@lemmy.ml
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          9 months ago

          Did people forget what divisive means? I would say it’s exactly the opposite of divisive, it’s a comment that is produced as much singular unified reaction as you could possibly get.

          • imaqtpie@lemmy.myserv.one
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            8 months ago

            I meant what I said. Most people disagree with the comment, but probably for a wide variety of reasons. It’s not a singular reaction, it’s multiple reactions to multiple insinuations that all happen to be questionable.

      • mellowheat@suppo.fi
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        9 months ago

        It’s a bit sad for Lemmy if 76 downvotes gets you to such a status. But mixing an interpretation of Tolkien with an anti-left message might indeed be one of the best ways to get there.

        You might enjoy my other greatest hit: https://suppo.fi/comment/3202858