The real fantasy here is that the lgbtqia+ community is something other than fractions of a percentage of the population with extremely niche interests. Voltron all you like, but you’re still an extremely small percentage of the whole with an extremely overexposed media footprint. I’m glad yall are being celebrated again as my people once celebrated and venerated twinsouls, but we also need to refocus our outrage on the shit that affects all of us, like net neutrality and basic right to live shit. Gender affirming care is wonderful for the people who have ready access to food, water, and shelter. I am more worried about the people who don’t have even those basic things. And the number of those people in this country grows every day.
Whether or not you meant it this way, your argument has been used to downplay important social issues for over 100 years, probably a lot longer.
I’ve heard “Why spend so much effort on X when people are dying out there?”
Where X is womens’ voting rights, Black rights, sexual freedoms, political freedoms, and religious freedoms just off the top of my head in the US alone.
If you did mean it with good intentions and not as a debate tactic, know that we can work on two things at once. To use the US as an example again, most of those things I addressed were indeed improved and it’s not like other things just fell by the wayside. We vastly improved food safety, workplace safety, hunger, infrastructure, etc. at the same time.
What I’m saying is that I’m tired of hearing about wants constantly on the news when our country is filled with so much need it hurts. You want to transition. That’s good. I’m so happy for you that you’ve figured out who you want to be. You want a safe community for all your people to gather and share. Totally understandable, people have been doing that for thousands of years. What I am concerned about is what people NEED to live. People need shelter that doesn’t make them unable to afford food. People need food that isn’t so preserved with chemicals and colorants it gives them cancer 20 years down the line. People need water that isn’t full of whatever runoff dupont feels like dumping in 10 miles up the river. None of the other issues become any less important, but we need to understand that needs are more important than wants on a fundamental level. And we are not meeting the needs of our people. Until that happens, I’m gonna be mad about people crying for their wants.
If you actually believe that, surely you’re not going far enough though? You can follow your logic to its conclusion:
People need water that isn’t full of whatever runoff dupont feels like dumping in 10 miles up the river
Actually, some people have no water at all. We should literally expend no effort into cleaning up water until every single human on the planet has access to some form of water.
People need shelter that doesn’t make them unable to afford food.
Actually, some people can afford neither food or shelter, and so we should not expend any effort in providing them with shelter until every single human on the planet has access to food.
It’s almost like we’re a complex society that can address more than one societal issue at a given point.
the adage goes ‘pick your fights’ for a reason. while the needs that badadvice (fitting name, actually lol) mentions are vital and important, the scale of them is such that we would spend all of our energy on them and ignore the plethora of other issues being discussed in this post. while we need to be working on affordable housing, clean water, etc., we also need to be considering where we can do the most good. and people like badadvice get angry that the forest exists because it obscures the their particular tree and would burn the rest of the forest if they think it will help their tree. the reality is that the diminishing returns for fights like badadvice is advocating for puts us in a position that they are often untenable to try and tackle with the level of effort they want to put towards it. this isn’t a matter of being cold-hearted toward those issues, it’s a matter of triaging our problems as a society.
Hello straw man. Lmao pretty sure what I said is that trans issues are disproportionately overexposed in media and really shouldn’t be considering how small of a percentage of the population those issues directly affect. Especially when you look at it through the perspective of someone who knows exactly how much of an issue getting clean water on reservations can be right now, even in the “deluxe American poverty” of the midwest
The whole reason the LGBTQ+ topic is so big is because of those other issues, specifically because solving those would take actual effort and money and if you don’t want to expend that you just tie up people’s attention and energy in useless culture wars, and then they’re too tired and distracted to deal with all the other problems that need solving.
Hi we can fight about other things too? like I’m also fucking super concerned about how religious institutions are infiltrating our government and other positions of power and how there are still so many mass shootings, and the opioid crisis, and mental health is still abysmal, and dental insurance is a joke even though bad teeth hurt your health… oh and earth is basically fucking melting and people STILL deny global warming. Look see a person can be aware and care about a lot and consider all the things important! You’re making the same type of argument that would come up with ANY progressive outcry of injustice, same fucking arguments happened with police brutality against people of color. Lawmakers don’t have to focus on just ONE FUCKING THING and progress doesn’t have to either.
And fuck this shit people still die from being LGBTQA. Fuck off with “you’re too small to matter enough to protect” bullshit. I get it if you feel like it has too much media attention it’s mostly because it became profitable to talk about it. That’s capitalism at work but don’t lessen and downplay a legitimate fight for equality because of that.
It’s not a fight for equality. Nobody wants equality because equal for us sucks every ass. It’s a fight to be at the front of the line for the money fountain, and every feel good story about an eleventy thousand dollar hormone treatment that got approved could have been a fucking well in a reservation that would have given clean water to hundreds of native people. I’m glad Suzy doesn’t have to be Kevin any more, but Kevin still would have had food, water, and a place to sleep. Some of us don’t even have that. So yeah, until all of us have the basic shit covered, I’m going to mad about the overexposure of a niche group who cry about their wants instead of recognizing all the need around them.
This is a terrible take. Given the high rate of suicide among trans individuals who have no social or medical support, this is a public health issue and not just a race to the “money fountain”. Should we also cut funding for all mental health causes because the Flint water crisis isn’t yet taken care of? Not every trans individual is even asking for or wants to transition surgically. And when they do, most are paying out if their own pocket. And even those that get any public funding represent a literal drop in the ocean. Are you also mad at women who get attention and funding for breast reconstruction surgery after cancer?
By your logic no other social issue should be dealt with or funded if we don’t solve world hunger first. It’s not marginalised communities that are standing between people in need and resources, and it’s frankly not constructive to be mad at those marginalised communities for getting the attention they do. Better to use that energy to go after those who hoard resources and have a vested interest in maintaining the status quo.
LGBTQIA are getting a lot more screen time because a small group of powerful people decided we’re a good scapegoat to distract everyone else (including you) from the real reason the issues you so vehemently abhor are even happening in the first place. Maybe you should direct your ire at them, it’s a hell of a lot more constructive.
Also what’s this about “you people”? I’m not American. In fact I come from a former colony of a European country that’s still getting royally fucked over decades after independence, and the majority of the population lives in abject poverty. Don’t lecture me about who’s getting enough attention. Most of the people in your country have barely even heard of the place I’m from, let alone give even an iota of a shit about the plight of the people there. And you don’t hear me ranting that native americans are getting more “attention” and “resources” compared to my people who are dying of rampant AIDs, violent conflict, and fucking disease and starvation. We all deserve equality and justice - focus your efforts on tearing down the causes, not other groups fighting for themselves against the same fucking oppressors.
Imagine having the independence to fuck up your own country as you like lmao you’re talking about comparing a genocide to intermittent cultural oppression like they’re even remotely similar. I’m sorry the Europeons came to your country and made things worse for your people. Mine never left and have only recently agreed to stop sending us to mandatory death camps dressed up as houses of God. Do your people still have concentration camps? Mine are called reservations.
If you think a lot of African countries are truly independent and not still being fucked every day by the same imperialists that put them in that situation in the first place, you have a lot to learn. Your people aren’t the only ones who suffered from genocide and literal slavery courtesy the same breed of colonialists you talk about. Again if you have an issue with the status quo take it up with your oppressors rather than shitting on other oppressed peoples. And while you’ve turned this into an oppression dick measuring contest you, have yet to tell me how the lack of attention to your cause is specifically the LGBT community’s fault as you’ve alluded to time and again
Because the lgbt community is fighting for wants instead of raising awareness about needs. Let’s talk about drag queen story hour. Do we need protests and media coverage for drag queen story hour to keep going when a rez in the state doesn’t have its own water supply? Apparently so, because that’s what’s on the news. When I say “genocide” what I’m talking about is the 112 million people who lived on this land, of whom there are 7 million descendants today. That’s almost 95% decline. And that’s with explosive growth in the last 2 generations. My people were very nearly eradicated entirely, while lgbtqia+ have enjoyed varying levels of acceptance since written history began.
You’re complaining about someone getting to go to a buffet when you are starving while someone just flew halfway across a country on a private jet to eat a steak down the block from you.
If you want to complain about money not going to get everyone basic needs met, then team together with the people who more often than not are also struggling to get by and target who actually has the money and hoards it for power instead of using it to eliminate hunger from the world.
And how is this the fault of the LGBT community? Are the LGBT community specifically responsible for native americans not getting enough attention? You have yet to make an argument why the LGBT community itself deserves your ire. Have they somehow -tricked- people into getting more attention? I really struggle to understand why you’ve picked on this group in particular. Are black people being given too much attention too? Women? Elderly people with dementia?
Let’s look at all those groups as a percentage of the population and you tell me who should recieve the attention. Women? Half the population? Black people? Maybe 20-30% of the population around me? Elderly people with dementia? Now we have a very tiny group, except literally anyone could become a part of this group eventually. Now the LGBTQIA+. Not even 1 in 10, and that’s in our VERY accepting society with legally protected status. You don’t even get rounded up in concentration camps. Not here anyways. But could rupaul spare a shout out for my people on the rez? Nah. Better talk about lizzo some more. She needs the exposure.
Ho boy where do I start? You are aware LGBT individuals are everywhere, right? Including on your reservation? In every country in the world, in every social class, race, religion, etc? We are children, siblings, parents, grandparents, aunts, uncles, colleagues, friends, etc etc. HOW are you surprised the LGBT community gets this kind of representation? The vast majority of people know or know of someone who is LGBT in their social circle. Can the same be said for native americans? Don’t assume I don’t feel for your people, but conflating LGBT representation as somehow a specific injustice to native americans is incredibly flimsy logic.
Using Rupaul as an example is a supremely poor choice given drag race has specifically given representation to native performers in the US and Canada, and created a platform for those performers to highlight issues their communities have faced:
And again why is it his or any other LGBT individual’s responsibility to fight for your cause anymore than it should be anyone else’s responsibility?
And you want to talk numbers, ok let’s talk numbers. I’ll use my country as an example. We’re 32 million people, over 60% of that population lives in poverty. Not the deluxe American level of poverty, third world country levels of poverty. That’s nearly 20 million people. Nearly half of those 32 million don’t have access to clean water, that’s over 16 million. Only one in five have access to adequate sanitation, that’s 28 million people without adequate sanitation. How many native americans are there in the US? Around 7 million? That’s a lot more people in a lot worse living conditions where I’m from than your entire population combined. Should I start complaining that you have more representation in famous movies than my people do? Should I concern troll about there being more native American millionaires than there are in my country? Should I expect native americans to fight for my people’s cause too, to give us a shout-out? Using your logic I should go around dismissing any calls for justice for native american peoples simply by citing the fact that more than the equivalent of triple your entire population are living in abject poverty in my country.
Oh and another thing - this whole time you’ve been shitting in the LGBT community you’ve neglected the fact that the new pride flag was redesigned not only to give a specific shout out to trans individuals, but also people of colour AND INDIGENOUS PEOPLE, represented by the black and brown stripes:
Bud. If you think reservations are some kind of deluxe poverty, you don’t understand what you’re talking about. Black and brown stripes, because that’s what my people and culture boils down to. Clean water isn’t just some necessity we’d like to have, but it’s literally sacred to us. Our rivers and lakes, poisoned as they are, are still holy to us. We are put on the least arable land possible by hundred year old treaties that are disrespected constantly. Our 7 million are what’s left after 300 years of constant, targeted genocide. Best estimates put the pre colonial population at around 112 million. That’s almost a 95% kill rate. And after all that, we still can’t farm the land we are left with and cannot make our own water clean. I cannot get over “deluxe American poverty” like it even remotely applies to reservations. Has your little shithole ever had concentration camps?
You’re so very close. The LGBT+ is fighting for exactly that. They’re on that front line. And if that front line breaks, they’ll come for your half a twin soul next.
As an overwhelming majority, they arent. The ones with mental health issues might be, which are disproportionately common considering the extremely small percentage of the population we have been talking about to begin with. However, imo that’s a larger mental health care issue than strictly a lgbtia+ issue anyways. The point I’m making here is that people truly struggling with basic right to live shit (ie food, water, shelter) arent worried about getting their next dose of hormones or what dive bar they can pick up some ass at. Look at the truly poor communities and tell me that a gay bar and some estrogen pills will do anything for them. You’ll tell me next “oh no it’s about identity and the right to be who they are!!1!” Lmfao imagine being so fucking free as to CHOOSE your own identity instead of having it branded on you at birth like a fucking animal. Hell, some of you even get to choose new parts if the factory didn’t send you what you wanted. Meanwhile, on the actual rez, Sam the injun boy gets to play with arid dirt and hope the financial services check comes on time this month so mom and dad don’t scream so much. You see the disparity here?
Ok now this clearly shows you’re a bigot before all else. You never came here to argue in good faith, did you? Just move goalpoasts and exploit the struggles of native american people as cover for your hatred.
If you’re truly native american as you say, you’re a terrible representative for your people. But thankfully, unlike you, we don’t assume one individual is a representative for all.
Which one did I assume was the representative for all of you? I have different burns lined up for Miller or Jenner, so you’re going to have to remind me which one it was.
My argument has always been that important issues should get more air time. Flint, MI got some, mostly because the water there affected white people. Now let’s see that for some of us redskins. It only took you about 100 years to change the football team. I’ll hold my breath.
You’ve pointed out specific LGBT individuals as if they’re somehow a representation of the wider community. For someone complaining about one dimensional focus you sure spend a lot of time calling out these people specifically because they’re LGBT and not all of the other reasons they’re getting attention. Ever considered these are just famous rich people that get more airtime just like all famous rich people do? Not exactly exclusive to the LGBT community is it?
And my argument is who makes you the arbitrer of which issues are more important than others? Who do you think should get to decide, because, news flash, it’s not the minorities who are calling the shots here. Again, if that’s your issue, you need to take it up with the people who do have the power to decide, not shit on the LGBT community.
Most people are mentally weak. Turns out, you can reprogram your whole mind with enough effort. Sort of like a person who is born male convincing themselves they should have been born female, to the point that they will mutilate their bodies to make their physical reality match their perceived ideal. It’s a triumph of mind over body, and it takes discipline. But you go ahead and hold onto the notion that people can’t choose for themselves. That’s a very conservative viewpoint. Colonial, even.
“Trans people are a minority they don’t matter let’s ignore them and tolerate hateful people attacking them because, see that non-trans person over there? They need a home.”
–> That is pretty much what you’re saying right? If not, how did I mischaracterize you?
I don’t see how this type of attitude is fundamentally different than "Black people are a minority so lets tolerate hate because, see that white person over there? Their kids need to go to college.
When did I say anyone should be ignored? My whole point is that the lgbtqia+ media footprint is disproportionately large and pushes out other important issues. I just want less lizzo and ru Paul in the news when I know damn well this country has obligations by treaty to my people that they arent upholding. That should be in the fuckin news. But sure, bring out your straw man. It’s your favorite thing to bitch about so you might as well use it yourself.
Intersectionality is the only way. If we let others down, why would we expect others to fight for us? If you let us down, would you expect us and our allies to still fight for “your people”? Minorities against other minorities are the worst.
You say this country has treaties for your people (I’m guessing you’re Native American? I’m Mexican so half and people think I’m native by my looks), does this mean they have no obligation to treat other minorities with respect? I fully respect any culture you might from and if our country has treaties with your people they should be upheld. But does that mean we need to have fewer rainbows on TV? Are there not LGBTQIA+ members of “your people”?
Also, I’d say one of the main reasons the LBGTQIA+ “media footprint” is as large as it is, is because of hateful people using it to divide people and our need to fight back. And we do it fabulously, the only way we know how. Is it really outsized? LGBTQIA+ is somewhere between 5% and 20% of the population depending on how and who you ask. I don’t think even 5% of people in the media are in this group.
The (typical) news is for-profit, are you really expecting to see appropriate representation? Probably along with actual truth and honesty? Watch Democracy Now for something better.
LGBT+ people are disproportionately affected by homelessness, access to food and water, civil rights, and everything else you just spouted, so I don’t see how improving their living conditions doesn’t also help mitigate the other problems.
Add discrimination, mental illness, alcoholism, generational poverty, and cultural genocide to the list, then change lgbt+ to native Americans.
In that case, that’s exactly the point I’m making. Lgbt+ haven’t been generationally oppressed because those things aren’t born with you. A gay man can have a straight son as easily as a trans daughter, but a native man will always have a native child, and that child will face undue hardship by the simple fact of the history they are born into. That deserves more of the news cycle than another protest to keep or ban drag queen story hour at the local library.
You frame the issue as if you are more important than LGBT people, but then you also signal that their issues don’t actually exist, so I’m not really willing to trust that you actually care at all.
This is the same way TERFs frame feminism. “Fuck you, I want mine.” It is quite toxic.
This is an unfortunate take since the intersectionality of gender identity, sexuality, and race when it comes to ALL OF THOSE ISSUES is there. But you don’t see them as allies fighting for common ground. You see this as a zero-sum game.
You also seem to side with the media’s focus, which is swallowing right-wing talking points, so I also have to believe that you’re not really learning from indigenous history, as those same tactics were used against them, as well.
If you want to help indigenous peoples, you can focus on a problem that affects many groups and bring it to the forefront. That brings allies into your group to work together towards a goal, instead of dividing them so that they are easily conquered.
Your last paragraph so neatly captures my own point it’s kinda funny. “If you want to help lgbt+, you can focus on a problem that affects many groups (like clean water). That brings allies into your group to work together towards a goal.” Except your group has more fucking allies than members in my entire nation. And instead of using those allies to fight for something like water rights, you’re burning media time to talk about how grown men should be able to dress as overtly sexualized caricatures of women to read books to children. That’s not an issue that affects many groups. But it’s still on the fuckin news. Our world isn’t EXACTLY zero sum but it’s close. There are only so many hours in the 24 hours news cycle, and I should be seeing more water cleaning and less drag book reading. Explain to me why that is without blaming the mysterious powers that be who are probably just trying to make you look bad.
Again, you should re-read history for how indigenous peoples were systematically genocided. Shall I post for you the “noble savage”? Would you like to see how media at the time was flooded with stories about “they just want to dance, worship animals, and speak gibberish?” Want to tell me how it’s different from what you’re saying now?
You are eating the same brand of propaganda that was used against indigenous peoples, black people, women, etc., etc., and using it against LGBT people. You have learned nothing from tragedy, except to hate others. Congratulations on assimilating.
Bullets and blankets mostly. Then came the churches, the camps, and eventually the schools. Y’see, the difference is that the media came after. It happened to the southern empires first. The propaganda comes well after the genocide. It’s a justification tool. You’re here trying to tell me the media is telling me who to hate. I don’t hate trannies. We have a gay bar downtown overflowing with them. Good, cop hating people. What I hate is seeing them in the news picketing to bring back drag queen story hour when there are homeless cities without water down the street. I hate seeing senators argue about prepubescent access to hrt when there are 150 year old treaties not being honored to this day with native peoples. And I hate seeing all of you here put words in my mouth about who I should or shouldn’t hate for reasons I never brought up to begin with. There is no wrong think. Hatred is allowed. Sometimes, it’s even justified. I just try my best to hate ideas instead of people. So no, I don’t hate trannies or gays or twinsouls or any other extremely niche group youd like to add to the soup. I hate the overblown media footprint of shit that does not and will not ever matter to the overwhelming majority of people in this country.
“change lgbt+ to native americans” is veiled whataboutism. There’s no reason we can’t improve living standards for both groups at once, and using one struggling group as a reason to not support another struggling group is dishonest.
The real fantasy here is that the lgbtqia+ community is something other than fractions of a percentage of the population with extremely niche interests. Voltron all you like, but you’re still an extremely small percentage of the whole with an extremely overexposed media footprint. I’m glad yall are being celebrated again as my people once celebrated and venerated twinsouls, but we also need to refocus our outrage on the shit that affects all of us, like net neutrality and basic right to live shit. Gender affirming care is wonderful for the people who have ready access to food, water, and shelter. I am more worried about the people who don’t have even those basic things. And the number of those people in this country grows every day.
Whether or not you meant it this way, your argument has been used to downplay important social issues for over 100 years, probably a lot longer.
I’ve heard “Why spend so much effort on X when people are dying out there?”
Where X is womens’ voting rights, Black rights, sexual freedoms, political freedoms, and religious freedoms just off the top of my head in the US alone.
If you did mean it with good intentions and not as a debate tactic, know that we can work on two things at once. To use the US as an example again, most of those things I addressed were indeed improved and it’s not like other things just fell by the wayside. We vastly improved food safety, workplace safety, hunger, infrastructure, etc. at the same time.
What I’m saying is that I’m tired of hearing about wants constantly on the news when our country is filled with so much need it hurts. You want to transition. That’s good. I’m so happy for you that you’ve figured out who you want to be. You want a safe community for all your people to gather and share. Totally understandable, people have been doing that for thousands of years. What I am concerned about is what people NEED to live. People need shelter that doesn’t make them unable to afford food. People need food that isn’t so preserved with chemicals and colorants it gives them cancer 20 years down the line. People need water that isn’t full of whatever runoff dupont feels like dumping in 10 miles up the river. None of the other issues become any less important, but we need to understand that needs are more important than wants on a fundamental level. And we are not meeting the needs of our people. Until that happens, I’m gonna be mad about people crying for their wants.
What a truly fascinating way to view the world.
If you actually believe that, surely you’re not going far enough though? You can follow your logic to its conclusion:
Actually, some people have no water at all. We should literally expend no effort into cleaning up water until every single human on the planet has access to some form of water.
Actually, some people can afford neither food or shelter, and so we should not expend any effort in providing them with shelter until every single human on the planet has access to food.
It’s almost like we’re a complex society that can address more than one societal issue at a given point.
there’s always a bigger fish, right?
the adage goes ‘pick your fights’ for a reason. while the needs that badadvice (fitting name, actually lol) mentions are vital and important, the scale of them is such that we would spend all of our energy on them and ignore the plethora of other issues being discussed in this post. while we need to be working on affordable housing, clean water, etc., we also need to be considering where we can do the most good. and people like badadvice get angry that the forest exists because it obscures the their particular tree and would burn the rest of the forest if they think it will help their tree. the reality is that the diminishing returns for fights like badadvice is advocating for puts us in a position that they are often untenable to try and tackle with the level of effort they want to put towards it. this isn’t a matter of being cold-hearted toward those issues, it’s a matter of triaging our problems as a society.
You are so completely full of shit.
“You don’t understand, I have to hate the gays, it’s the only way to stop cancer and poverty.”
Hello straw man. Lmao pretty sure what I said is that trans issues are disproportionately overexposed in media and really shouldn’t be considering how small of a percentage of the population those issues directly affect. Especially when you look at it through the perspective of someone who knows exactly how much of an issue getting clean water on reservations can be right now, even in the “deluxe American poverty” of the midwest
The whole reason the LGBTQ+ topic is so big is because of those other issues, specifically because solving those would take actual effort and money and if you don’t want to expend that you just tie up people’s attention and energy in useless culture wars, and then they’re too tired and distracted to deal with all the other problems that need solving.
Hi we can fight about other things too? like I’m also fucking super concerned about how religious institutions are infiltrating our government and other positions of power and how there are still so many mass shootings, and the opioid crisis, and mental health is still abysmal, and dental insurance is a joke even though bad teeth hurt your health… oh and earth is basically fucking melting and people STILL deny global warming. Look see a person can be aware and care about a lot and consider all the things important! You’re making the same type of argument that would come up with ANY progressive outcry of injustice, same fucking arguments happened with police brutality against people of color. Lawmakers don’t have to focus on just ONE FUCKING THING and progress doesn’t have to either.
And fuck this shit people still die from being LGBTQA. Fuck off with “you’re too small to matter enough to protect” bullshit. I get it if you feel like it has too much media attention it’s mostly because it became profitable to talk about it. That’s capitalism at work but don’t lessen and downplay a legitimate fight for equality because of that.
It’s not a fight for equality. Nobody wants equality because equal for us sucks every ass. It’s a fight to be at the front of the line for the money fountain, and every feel good story about an eleventy thousand dollar hormone treatment that got approved could have been a fucking well in a reservation that would have given clean water to hundreds of native people. I’m glad Suzy doesn’t have to be Kevin any more, but Kevin still would have had food, water, and a place to sleep. Some of us don’t even have that. So yeah, until all of us have the basic shit covered, I’m going to mad about the overexposure of a niche group who cry about their wants instead of recognizing all the need around them.
This is a terrible take. Given the high rate of suicide among trans individuals who have no social or medical support, this is a public health issue and not just a race to the “money fountain”. Should we also cut funding for all mental health causes because the Flint water crisis isn’t yet taken care of? Not every trans individual is even asking for or wants to transition surgically. And when they do, most are paying out if their own pocket. And even those that get any public funding represent a literal drop in the ocean. Are you also mad at women who get attention and funding for breast reconstruction surgery after cancer?
By your logic no other social issue should be dealt with or funded if we don’t solve world hunger first. It’s not marginalised communities that are standing between people in need and resources, and it’s frankly not constructive to be mad at those marginalised communities for getting the attention they do. Better to use that energy to go after those who hoard resources and have a vested interest in maintaining the status quo.
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LGBTQIA are getting a lot more screen time because a small group of powerful people decided we’re a good scapegoat to distract everyone else (including you) from the real reason the issues you so vehemently abhor are even happening in the first place. Maybe you should direct your ire at them, it’s a hell of a lot more constructive.
Also what’s this about “you people”? I’m not American. In fact I come from a former colony of a European country that’s still getting royally fucked over decades after independence, and the majority of the population lives in abject poverty. Don’t lecture me about who’s getting enough attention. Most of the people in your country have barely even heard of the place I’m from, let alone give even an iota of a shit about the plight of the people there. And you don’t hear me ranting that native americans are getting more “attention” and “resources” compared to my people who are dying of rampant AIDs, violent conflict, and fucking disease and starvation. We all deserve equality and justice - focus your efforts on tearing down the causes, not other groups fighting for themselves against the same fucking oppressors.
Imagine having the independence to fuck up your own country as you like lmao you’re talking about comparing a genocide to intermittent cultural oppression like they’re even remotely similar. I’m sorry the Europeons came to your country and made things worse for your people. Mine never left and have only recently agreed to stop sending us to mandatory death camps dressed up as houses of God. Do your people still have concentration camps? Mine are called reservations.
If you think a lot of African countries are truly independent and not still being fucked every day by the same imperialists that put them in that situation in the first place, you have a lot to learn. Your people aren’t the only ones who suffered from genocide and literal slavery courtesy the same breed of colonialists you talk about. Again if you have an issue with the status quo take it up with your oppressors rather than shitting on other oppressed peoples. And while you’ve turned this into an oppression dick measuring contest you, have yet to tell me how the lack of attention to your cause is specifically the LGBT community’s fault as you’ve alluded to time and again
Because the lgbt community is fighting for wants instead of raising awareness about needs. Let’s talk about drag queen story hour. Do we need protests and media coverage for drag queen story hour to keep going when a rez in the state doesn’t have its own water supply? Apparently so, because that’s what’s on the news. When I say “genocide” what I’m talking about is the 112 million people who lived on this land, of whom there are 7 million descendants today. That’s almost 95% decline. And that’s with explosive growth in the last 2 generations. My people were very nearly eradicated entirely, while lgbtqia+ have enjoyed varying levels of acceptance since written history began.
You’re complaining about someone getting to go to a buffet when you are starving while someone just flew halfway across a country on a private jet to eat a steak down the block from you.
If you want to complain about money not going to get everyone basic needs met, then team together with the people who more often than not are also struggling to get by and target who actually has the money and hoards it for power instead of using it to eliminate hunger from the world.
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And how is this the fault of the LGBT community? Are the LGBT community specifically responsible for native americans not getting enough attention? You have yet to make an argument why the LGBT community itself deserves your ire. Have they somehow -tricked- people into getting more attention? I really struggle to understand why you’ve picked on this group in particular. Are black people being given too much attention too? Women? Elderly people with dementia?
Let’s look at all those groups as a percentage of the population and you tell me who should recieve the attention. Women? Half the population? Black people? Maybe 20-30% of the population around me? Elderly people with dementia? Now we have a very tiny group, except literally anyone could become a part of this group eventually. Now the LGBTQIA+. Not even 1 in 10, and that’s in our VERY accepting society with legally protected status. You don’t even get rounded up in concentration camps. Not here anyways. But could rupaul spare a shout out for my people on the rez? Nah. Better talk about lizzo some more. She needs the exposure.
Ho boy where do I start? You are aware LGBT individuals are everywhere, right? Including on your reservation? In every country in the world, in every social class, race, religion, etc? We are children, siblings, parents, grandparents, aunts, uncles, colleagues, friends, etc etc. HOW are you surprised the LGBT community gets this kind of representation? The vast majority of people know or know of someone who is LGBT in their social circle. Can the same be said for native americans? Don’t assume I don’t feel for your people, but conflating LGBT representation as somehow a specific injustice to native americans is incredibly flimsy logic.
Using Rupaul as an example is a supremely poor choice given drag race has specifically given representation to native performers in the US and Canada, and created a platform for those performers to highlight issues their communities have faced:
https://dragsociety.com/blogs/the-tea/native-american-queens-who-rocked-rupauls-drag-race
And again why is it his or any other LGBT individual’s responsibility to fight for your cause anymore than it should be anyone else’s responsibility?
And you want to talk numbers, ok let’s talk numbers. I’ll use my country as an example. We’re 32 million people, over 60% of that population lives in poverty. Not the deluxe American level of poverty, third world country levels of poverty. That’s nearly 20 million people. Nearly half of those 32 million don’t have access to clean water, that’s over 16 million. Only one in five have access to adequate sanitation, that’s 28 million people without adequate sanitation. How many native americans are there in the US? Around 7 million? That’s a lot more people in a lot worse living conditions where I’m from than your entire population combined. Should I start complaining that you have more representation in famous movies than my people do? Should I concern troll about there being more native American millionaires than there are in my country? Should I expect native americans to fight for my people’s cause too, to give us a shout-out? Using your logic I should go around dismissing any calls for justice for native american peoples simply by citing the fact that more than the equivalent of triple your entire population are living in abject poverty in my country.
Oh and another thing - this whole time you’ve been shitting in the LGBT community you’ve neglected the fact that the new pride flag was redesigned not only to give a specific shout out to trans individuals, but also people of colour AND INDIGENOUS PEOPLE, represented by the black and brown stripes:
https://dmh.lacounty.gov/blog/2022/06/a-brief-history-of-our-lgbtqia2-s-pride-flag/
But sure, it’s the gays that are at fault for your community not getting enough airtime. Unbelievable.
Bud. If you think reservations are some kind of deluxe poverty, you don’t understand what you’re talking about. Black and brown stripes, because that’s what my people and culture boils down to. Clean water isn’t just some necessity we’d like to have, but it’s literally sacred to us. Our rivers and lakes, poisoned as they are, are still holy to us. We are put on the least arable land possible by hundred year old treaties that are disrespected constantly. Our 7 million are what’s left after 300 years of constant, targeted genocide. Best estimates put the pre colonial population at around 112 million. That’s almost a 95% kill rate. And after all that, we still can’t farm the land we are left with and cannot make our own water clean. I cannot get over “deluxe American poverty” like it even remotely applies to reservations. Has your little shithole ever had concentration camps?
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You’re so very close. The LGBT+ is fighting for exactly that. They’re on that front line. And if that front line breaks, they’ll come for your half a twin soul next.
As an overwhelming majority, they arent. The ones with mental health issues might be, which are disproportionately common considering the extremely small percentage of the population we have been talking about to begin with. However, imo that’s a larger mental health care issue than strictly a lgbtia+ issue anyways. The point I’m making here is that people truly struggling with basic right to live shit (ie food, water, shelter) arent worried about getting their next dose of hormones or what dive bar they can pick up some ass at. Look at the truly poor communities and tell me that a gay bar and some estrogen pills will do anything for them. You’ll tell me next “oh no it’s about identity and the right to be who they are!!1!” Lmfao imagine being so fucking free as to CHOOSE your own identity instead of having it branded on you at birth like a fucking animal. Hell, some of you even get to choose new parts if the factory didn’t send you what you wanted. Meanwhile, on the actual rez, Sam the injun boy gets to play with arid dirt and hope the financial services check comes on time this month so mom and dad don’t scream so much. You see the disparity here?
You think people choose their sexuality and gender?
Interesting.
When did you choose to be straight?
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Ok now this clearly shows you’re a bigot before all else. You never came here to argue in good faith, did you? Just move goalpoasts and exploit the struggles of native american people as cover for your hatred.
If you’re truly native american as you say, you’re a terrible representative for your people. But thankfully, unlike you, we don’t assume one individual is a representative for all.
Which one did I assume was the representative for all of you? I have different burns lined up for Miller or Jenner, so you’re going to have to remind me which one it was.
My argument has always been that important issues should get more air time. Flint, MI got some, mostly because the water there affected white people. Now let’s see that for some of us redskins. It only took you about 100 years to change the football team. I’ll hold my breath.
You’ve pointed out specific LGBT individuals as if they’re somehow a representation of the wider community. For someone complaining about one dimensional focus you sure spend a lot of time calling out these people specifically because they’re LGBT and not all of the other reasons they’re getting attention. Ever considered these are just famous rich people that get more airtime just like all famous rich people do? Not exactly exclusive to the LGBT community is it?
And my argument is who makes you the arbitrer of which issues are more important than others? Who do you think should get to decide, because, news flash, it’s not the minorities who are calling the shots here. Again, if that’s your issue, you need to take it up with the people who do have the power to decide, not shit on the LGBT community.
And as an aside - Flint is majority African American, by a wide margin: https://www.census.gov/quickfacts/fact/table/flintcitymichigan/PST045222
You mean you could choose to be attracted to your own gender if you wanted to?
Because I know I couldn’t.
Hole is hole. You’d be surprised what you can do with a little mental discipline. Soldiers always are.
Um… I think you’re bisexual and you don’t realize it.
Because a hole isn’t a hole where human bodies are concerned for most people.
Most people are mentally weak. Turns out, you can reprogram your whole mind with enough effort. Sort of like a person who is born male convincing themselves they should have been born female, to the point that they will mutilate their bodies to make their physical reality match their perceived ideal. It’s a triumph of mind over body, and it takes discipline. But you go ahead and hold onto the notion that people can’t choose for themselves. That’s a very conservative viewpoint. Colonial, even.
It’s not about the percentage of the minority, it’s about how that minority is used politically against it’s allies and supporters.
Imagine your people being politically valuable instead of being thrown into the worst badlands the government could find and forgotten.
I’m sorry your people are not valuable. That’s how insane you are sounding.
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“Trans people are a minority they don’t matter let’s ignore them and tolerate hateful people attacking them because, see that non-trans person over there? They need a home.”
–> That is pretty much what you’re saying right? If not, how did I mischaracterize you?
I don’t see how this type of attitude is fundamentally different than "Black people are a minority so lets tolerate hate because, see that white person over there? Their kids need to go to college.
When did I say anyone should be ignored? My whole point is that the lgbtqia+ media footprint is disproportionately large and pushes out other important issues. I just want less lizzo and ru Paul in the news when I know damn well this country has obligations by treaty to my people that they arent upholding. That should be in the fuckin news. But sure, bring out your straw man. It’s your favorite thing to bitch about so you might as well use it yourself.
Intersectionality is the only way. If we let others down, why would we expect others to fight for us? If you let us down, would you expect us and our allies to still fight for “your people”? Minorities against other minorities are the worst.
You say this country has treaties for your people (I’m guessing you’re Native American? I’m Mexican so half and people think I’m native by my looks), does this mean they have no obligation to treat other minorities with respect? I fully respect any culture you might from and if our country has treaties with your people they should be upheld. But does that mean we need to have fewer rainbows on TV? Are there not LGBTQIA+ members of “your people”?
Also, I’d say one of the main reasons the LBGTQIA+ “media footprint” is as large as it is, is because of hateful people using it to divide people and our need to fight back. And we do it fabulously, the only way we know how. Is it really outsized? LGBTQIA+ is somewhere between 5% and 20% of the population depending on how and who you ask. I don’t think even 5% of people in the media are in this group.
The (typical) news is for-profit, are you really expecting to see appropriate representation? Probably along with actual truth and honesty? Watch Democracy Now for something better.
LGBT+ people are disproportionately affected by homelessness, access to food and water, civil rights, and everything else you just spouted, so I don’t see how improving their living conditions doesn’t also help mitigate the other problems.
Could you explain?
Add discrimination, mental illness, alcoholism, generational poverty, and cultural genocide to the list, then change lgbt+ to native Americans.
In that case, that’s exactly the point I’m making. Lgbt+ haven’t been generationally oppressed because those things aren’t born with you. A gay man can have a straight son as easily as a trans daughter, but a native man will always have a native child, and that child will face undue hardship by the simple fact of the history they are born into. That deserves more of the news cycle than another protest to keep or ban drag queen story hour at the local library.
You frame the issue as if you are more important than LGBT people, but then you also signal that their issues don’t actually exist, so I’m not really willing to trust that you actually care at all.
This is the same way TERFs frame feminism. “Fuck you, I want mine.” It is quite toxic.
This is an unfortunate take since the intersectionality of gender identity, sexuality, and race when it comes to ALL OF THOSE ISSUES is there. But you don’t see them as allies fighting for common ground. You see this as a zero-sum game.
You also seem to side with the media’s focus, which is swallowing right-wing talking points, so I also have to believe that you’re not really learning from indigenous history, as those same tactics were used against them, as well.
If you want to help indigenous peoples, you can focus on a problem that affects many groups and bring it to the forefront. That brings allies into your group to work together towards a goal, instead of dividing them so that they are easily conquered.
Your last paragraph so neatly captures my own point it’s kinda funny. “If you want to help lgbt+, you can focus on a problem that affects many groups (like clean water). That brings allies into your group to work together towards a goal.” Except your group has more fucking allies than members in my entire nation. And instead of using those allies to fight for something like water rights, you’re burning media time to talk about how grown men should be able to dress as overtly sexualized caricatures of women to read books to children. That’s not an issue that affects many groups. But it’s still on the fuckin news. Our world isn’t EXACTLY zero sum but it’s close. There are only so many hours in the 24 hours news cycle, and I should be seeing more water cleaning and less drag book reading. Explain to me why that is without blaming the mysterious powers that be who are probably just trying to make you look bad.
Again, you should re-read history for how indigenous peoples were systematically genocided. Shall I post for you the “noble savage”? Would you like to see how media at the time was flooded with stories about “they just want to dance, worship animals, and speak gibberish?” Want to tell me how it’s different from what you’re saying now?
You are eating the same brand of propaganda that was used against indigenous peoples, black people, women, etc., etc., and using it against LGBT people. You have learned nothing from tragedy, except to hate others. Congratulations on assimilating.
Bullets and blankets mostly. Then came the churches, the camps, and eventually the schools. Y’see, the difference is that the media came after. It happened to the southern empires first. The propaganda comes well after the genocide. It’s a justification tool. You’re here trying to tell me the media is telling me who to hate. I don’t hate trannies. We have a gay bar downtown overflowing with them. Good, cop hating people. What I hate is seeing them in the news picketing to bring back drag queen story hour when there are homeless cities without water down the street. I hate seeing senators argue about prepubescent access to hrt when there are 150 year old treaties not being honored to this day with native peoples. And I hate seeing all of you here put words in my mouth about who I should or shouldn’t hate for reasons I never brought up to begin with. There is no wrong think. Hatred is allowed. Sometimes, it’s even justified. I just try my best to hate ideas instead of people. So no, I don’t hate trannies or gays or twinsouls or any other extremely niche group youd like to add to the soup. I hate the overblown media footprint of shit that does not and will not ever matter to the overwhelming majority of people in this country.
You obviously do, since you’re using the t-slur to describe them, as well as saying “gays”.
Damn, dude, try harder.
“change lgbt+ to native americans” is veiled whataboutism. There’s no reason we can’t improve living standards for both groups at once, and using one struggling group as a reason to not support another struggling group is dishonest.