- cross-posted to:
- palestine@lemmygrad.ml
- cross-posted to:
- palestine@lemmygrad.ml
Note:
I swapped the original article at the request of a mod to from a source deemed more reliable, but to avoid confusion when reading the comment section prior to this edit, here is the link to the original article. I chose the Relief Web source listed by some who commented. Cheers!
First of all, Hamas is a terrorist organization and I fully support Israel in removing it. It definitely is not a resistance group.
However, Israel has to change the way they approach the problem. Especially limiting shenanigans like this one and using stupid bombs.
Executions ≠ shenanigans. Are you fucking kidding?
Edit: typo
Dang, so the IDF gets your blessing even though they’re killing 10x as many civilians as a terrorist organization?
Even though they’re killing more civilians than Russia?
Were you replying to a different post or something?
Wow it’s like you completely and utterly ignored his second paragraph entirely.
Those darn Israelis and their ethnic cleansing shenanigans.
Zionism is a mental illness at this point.
Based on your comment, can I ask what would be your solution the whole Palestine-Israel conflict?
Trials in the Hague followed by imprisonment of all those guilty of war crimes. At this point that Includes most IDF members, their leaders, and the government.
Actually bring consequences to bear and let other Israelis know that this isn’t acceptable. Israel also needs to be cut off from the teat of the American military industrial complex.
Same standards for Hamas, but that’s a much smaller number.
Any further sabre rattling is met with quick and strong sanctions.
Basically the UN needs to do it’s job, but that needs America not to veto.
Explain to me how that works with Hamas, because I don’t think they give a fuck about either of those things. More troops on the ground?
Probably needs a UN peace keeping force.
…but Hamas is also a political entity and the government of Palestine. Sanctions would matter if Gaza wasn’t already blockaded by Israel.
A bi national state modelled on the EU. Palestinian state delineated by the 1967 borders coexisting with the Jewish state. Single market and freedom of movement for all citizens whether Israeli or Palestinian. That way settlers don’t have to be removed and Palestinians can work in the cities as they did before Oslo.
That’s actually reasonable. Pretty much I would like to see the same option
I’m not the person you’re talking to but as far as i can see the only way to go is one state solution.
Help me out here, because I don’t see that how that’s supposed to work with the whole “killing a bunch of each other” thing going on.
The constant attacks against Israel and it’s increasing isolation only probs Zionists right. Jews can only trust themselves for their own defense and need a state for that (that’s what Zionism is). People like you feed Zionism everyday.
You’re conflating Jews with an extremist ideology that can only seem to exist through apartheid.
Ones terrorist group is another’s resistance heroes. Which is which very much depends on the side you’re sitting at.
Hamas is indeed a terror group and should be removed but it’s hard not to see your bias. In sheer numbers, the IDF has killed multiples of what Hamas killed, in cruelty they’re really the same, and Hamas has the “excuse” of 70 years or so of oppression, murder, theft, etc by the Israeli side, the IDF doesn’t have that excuse.
The IDF is a terrorist organisation too and the only difference is that the IDF is state sanctioned and managed, whereas Hamas is not.
You, however, call what is starting to look like a genocide “shenanigans” that should be better managed whereas you outright call Hamas a terrorist group. Bias much?
Hey don’t dare to call Hamas as cruel as the IDF. They don’t torture their hostages nor shoot children. Nor do they try to kill people from other religions such as Christians living in Gaza nor do they try to steal other people’s land.
They resist a genocidal Nazi regime and sometimes don’t do it the neatest way but from their position of fighting against their oppressors they hold pretty high moral standards.
Hamas is infinitely humane than the IDF.
Was Native American raids on “Settlements” terrorism? Was Nat Turner’s rebellion terrorism?
Hamas is evil and the acts they have done are evil. But they weren’t created in a vacuum. Peace and a one or two state solution needs to be agreed apone by all with a right to self determination for the cycle of evil to stop.
It’s time to put in a UN peacekeeping force and a transitional government for a single state solution. Israel has beyond lost it’s moral high ground and should be treated like any other colonial remnant in the post colonial world.
You can’t kill a terrorist group. The US spent the last 20 years proving that. You can only defend yourself and reform people/institutions to invalidate the ideology.
All israel would need to do for Hamas to die out is not commit genocide or ethnically cleanse Palestinians and occupy their land.
But people here forget that that’s literally what israel is about.
When Hamas attacked I commented Israel would lash out with it’s usual fervor, making sure that any Palestinians that didn’t support Hamas wouldn’t have a choice. And that the US world would back Israel, providing more ammunition to the Muslim extremists in the middle east to want to continue to fight the US. And Israel working at that time to a potential deal actually worked out with Saudi Arabia would get smashed. Hamas played the world like a fucking fiddle and literally everyone danced along with the tune.
Israel has been doing that for 70 years
I’m glad somebody else sees it, too. The Oct. 7th attack doesn’t make any sense, except to provoke Israel to overreact and draw other groups and countries into the fight. For fuck’s sake, Osama bin Laden straight-up explained this strategy to the world after the 9/11 attacks.
Shenanigans are things you can film with Yakkity Sax as background music. Boots Randolph doesn’t provide the soundtrack to genocide.
You can’t use that word!!! The Big Brains™ will tell you that unless Israel is targeting every single Palestinian on earth then it’s not genocide!
/Wrist
Get fucked shitbag
Haha murdering civilians is good!
Israel seems to think so
Bad Israel and their shenanigans genocide
Bad Israel and their shenanigans genocide
You mean like how Israel should stop supporting terrorists like Hamas then using them as an excuse to commit genocide?
Of course, Israel supporting Hamas was a dirty move and it was one of Israel biggest mistakes. There is no way to excuse that.
You really don’t know what you’re talking about though, this is an often repeated talking point which comes from pretty much nothing, do you have any evidence for it or did you half read a headline in a meme post without realising the argument being made is ‘by allowing aid into Gaza it’s proping up Hamas’ because that’s where that ‘funding Hamas’ line actually comes from.
Israel don’t let enough aid through and they’re the bad guys, they let aid through and they’re the bad guys - they don’t have a cease fire and they’re the bad guys, or they have a cease fire and fail to totally remove Hamas so again they’re the bad guys…
Iran funds Hamas and sturs up trouble as a way of maintaining support at home and due to their fanatical religious ideals -that bit isn’t even sightly complicated, you don’t need conspiracy theories
No sorry you’re right, starve and murder all Palestinians that will solve the problem.
That’s clearly not what I’m saying, I’m saying that supplying aid to Palestine is not the same as proping up Hamas so blaming Israel for their existence is absurd
They are are a resistance group, but that’s not really imoortant: I agree that Israel is justified in getting rid of them. What isn’t justified is almost everything they’ve done to achieve that aim.
They have nothing in common with a resistance group. They are just brutal terrorists who have been terrible both to Israel and Gaza, as well. Just look at how much money were they getting and see how it ended.
Israel has done war crimes, so it’s logical to condemn them for these actions. I believe they should have kept the approach from the beginning when they were precisely targeting the most dangerous buildings because Hamas was still a threat.
Exactly like the IRA which Britain called terrorists and many others called resistance fighters. It’s a matter of perspective.
If someone’s perspective is that Hamas are resistance fighters, then their perspective is just wrong.
Hamas have been leading Gaza for 18 years. They have done nothing good in that time. Whole Gaza is impoverished, conditions are terrible even when IDF don’t attack. In addition, Hamas leaders have share net worth of 11 billion US dollars and I am not even talking about how much money they get. Whilst leaders are extremely rich, their population is starving and is completely dependent on a country they are in a war with.
Apart from that, they have also been terrible to Israel because they launched multiple attacks against them.
So no, Hamas definitely are not freedom fighters but terrorists.
Lol. Just restating your assertion doesn’t make it true. The head of the Turkish state declared that Hamas are resistance fighters. Hamas are resistance fighters by name and are considered so by many in the middle east. The UNs Palestinian expert compared Hamas to the French resistance. You having really big feelings about the situation doesn’t change the facts - it’s ALWAYS the case that one person’s terrorist is another’s freedom fighter. Stomp your feet if it makes you feel better but the world will go on regardless
I definitely don’t have big feelings about this situation. I am just amazed by someone’s positions.
By your logic, we can fully justify that Hitler was a freedom fighter because the person who supports the Nazi dictator has just a different perspective. Facts, however, tell otherwise.
When there is given a substantial proof about something (whether it is Hamas being a terrorist group or about the fact that the Earth is round), people who oppose are just wrong (if they don’t provide a proof which makes “fact” incorrect). It’s dead simple.
When you come to a teacher with incorrectly solved equation, it won’t be you having a different perspective about mathematics than everyone else in the world, you will be just wrong.
Just like Erdogan is wrong right now. But I am not really surprised by that because he, just like Hamas, would love to see ME without Israel at all.
Whatevs. All you’re doing is just restating your assertion. Youre entitled to your wrong opinion but I’m not interested in hearing it. Good luck to you.
Well, I have to explain it in multiple ways because some people, despite substantial proof, still believe Hamas is a liberation movement. I don’t know how judging something based on facts is incorrect…