Why are we conflating emotional intimacy and sex? They aren’t the same thing. The fact that men are often taught that they are the same thing is part of why there is a loneliness epidemic.
because for a horny sad 20 year old they are the only thing that matters in life.
no mount of companionship will satisfy his desperate need to get laid.
EXACTLY.
what these statistics hide is that they dont examine QUALITY OF LIFE , NUMBERR OF RELATIONSHIPS, TYPES OOF RELATIONSHIPS, and THE INSANE RATES OF DEATHS OF DESPAIR AMONGSTT MIDDLE AGED AND SENIOR MEN
https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC10721027/ for this study of Korean middle aged men and women it was found thatt those who met more often wiith theiir friends had higher reported levels of life satisfation . YES for men AND women (and ya ya those who reported being married ALSO had higher reportrd levels of life satisfaction too BUT it sshould be noted that wifdowed people reported even higher levels of life satisfaction than all other adults who were included in the study and currently lived alone)
About 70-80% of all deaths worldwide from ‘Deaths Of Despair’ (so that includes deatha from eatting a terrible diet without exercising and dying from a cardiovascular disease, deaths from drunk driving, deaths from deliberate suicide , deaths frrom accidental drug overdoses, deaths from alcohol poisoning, deaths from fatty liver diseases ) were deaths of men per a year since we’ve started measurinng it. And very much middle aged men.
Also havent some studies come out showing that people have reported having less friends or rsther less people that they talk to and confide in per a weeek or even per a month than ever before?
Your spouse is supposed to be one of your friends , ya I gett that. But if you rely on only your spouse as your only friend ? Youre gonna get into A LOOOT of trouble if they eventually divorce from you.
Be 2025
…years old?! Not happenin bud
what these statistics hide is that they dont examine QUALITY OF LIFE , NUMBERR OF RELATIONSHIPS, TYPES OOF RELATIONSHIPS, and THE INSANE RATES OF DEATHS OF DESPAIR AMONGSTT MIDDLE AGED AND SENIOR MEN
https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC10721027/ for this study of Korean middle aged men and women it was found thatt those who met more often wiith theiir friends had higher reported levels of life satisfation . YES for men AND women (and ya ya those who reported being married ALSO had higher reportrd levels of life satisfaction too BUT it sshould be noted that wifdowed people reported even higher levels of life satisfaction than all other adults who were included in the study and currently lived alone)
About 70-80% of all deaths worldwide from ‘Deaths Of Despair’ (so that includes deatha from eatting a terrible diet without exercising and dying from a cardiovascular disease, deaths from drunk driving, deaths from deliberate suicide , deaths frrom accidental drug overdoses, deaths from alcohol poisoning, deaths from fatty liver diseases ) were deaths of men per a year since we’ve started measurinng it. And very much middle aged men.
Also havent some studies come out showing that people have reported having less friends or rsther less people that they talk to and confide in per a weeek or even per a month than ever before?
Your spouse is supposed to be one of your friends , ya I gett that. But if you rely on only your spouse as your only friend ? Youre gonna get into A LOOOT of trouble if they eventually divorce from you.
thx for the reply but i think your kkeyboard might be shaking. mignt want tc get it checked byy a mechanic?
There is a lot of solid scholarship questioning the label “male loneliness epidemic,” but not because scholars are stupid enough to equate having sex with an absence of loneliness.
You can have sex and be a totally toxic bastard that people don’t want to be around once they get to know you. You could have sex frequently but still be deeply lonely.
Agreed. It’s dangerous to conflate emotional intimacy and sex - they aren’t the same thing and pretending they are is part of what got us into this mess imo.
The phasing is as a sudden historically unique crisis, not the generic sense of ennui common to adulthood throughout history.
I can show you black and white French films from the 1960s complaining about the same Male Loneliness
Those statistics seem to be AI hallucination.
Also, if you have one sexual intercourse encounter per year, you’re not lonely? AND you could be pounding every week and still be lonely because the chemistry is not there, the love is vapid. People can just wank or pound for sexual release, but it doesn’t solve loneliness. Hell, people are lonely in a household of 6 people. Why? Because everybody is doing their own thing, ambivalent of each other. Thus, they can be lonely.
The feeling of loneliness is likely the basis for “I missed you.” Forlorning. And it’s noticed during reflection, alone.
We grow up in schools, where we’ve known 60%+ (of our class) since 1st grade (or earlier), and now – in adulthood, we’re thrown into a world full of strangers, everyday strangers. Friends help, but it doesn’t mend that community we had in our day-to-day school work.
speak for yourself. adulthood is awesome. school sucked.
The movie “Shame” is a pretty good example of lonliness despite having sex constantly. I think it was with Michael Fassbender and from 2012, but it’s been awhile so I don’t remember. Good movie, though. Real feel bad film.
TIL that the opposite of loneliness is having had sex
We could learn a lot from anon
having sex (perhaps just once?) doesn’t equal not lonely, though.
No, I’m pretty sure that every man who has had sex at least once in their life turned out to be a top bloke
Or bottom bloke
But can’t top blokes be lonely?
They say it’s lonely at the top, bloke.
So… more men as bottoms?
That is why most men actually prefer to be on the bottom. Less lonely.
Its best when she’s on top is all Im sayn 🤷🏿♂️
(I wouldnt know though as Im a virgin)
In fact sex being used as the indicator is actually a clue to one of the largest contributors. There’s a very wide reaching assumption that men should get most of their emotional support from their female partner. This is often very stressful to the female partner and is a fragile way to meet a basic need; if she gets sick or dies he’s probably not far behind her. Men need to learn how to compliment and hug each other platonically. It’s 2026 and it’s for their own good ffs. I keep giving my male patients brochures for men’s support groups and I really hope at least some of them are actually going.
It seems so surreal to me that other men don’t hug each other, or tell their friends that they love them
Its so strange how that evolved too, my dad, who was silent generation and arguably one of the manliest men I have known, still did the back smacking one handed hugs with his close friends. When did men stop doing this?
many men do have emotional support from friends and comradierie though. Oddly, the more macho and often homophobic they are, the more gay it seems.
because that’s gay.
but for real, for every person that says men need to talk about their feelings and hug it out… you realize that there are 10 other people who would regard you as being gay/not a man for doing that, right? and that includes men and women.
real world is more complex than internet nerds want to believe.
Furry here, we do that stuff. It’s pretty good, can recommend.
Also men used to do that a lot more, before the world wars.
We do it a lot more but it does exist in other places just less hug centric more a hand on a shoulder. Normally social groups and clubs. it requires older men that are not entirely Jaded to set the example. Unfortunately those guys mostly have passed at this point and most boomers don’t have the cognitive bandwidth.
Sometimes I lightly punch my friends in the balls to thank them for being vulnerable around me.
sometimes I rub their butts and tongue their balls to remind them that someone cares.
As a men with almost a bromance with his best friend… Frrrrrr.
Like, let’s not even go as far as a hug (for many it’s simply uncomfortable, whether it’s with a man or a woman; I only hug my mother and my sister, for example xd), but there are other forms of intimacy and emotional support that shouldn’t be tied to gender.
I mean, words of affirmation, the simple act of crying openly or expressing fears, anxieties, feelings or emotions, or expressing love or affection (platonically, as many mistakenly associate an “I love you” with something exclusive to romantic relationships); even just staying near to each other or hanging out with each other is a huge help.
Romanticism is something overrated and the same goes for sex, and I say this as someone who is alloromantic and allosexual.
And of course, they’re for sure a genuine and legitimate, and overall valid way of social and emotional interaction and intimacy, but not the only one or the best one for everyone.
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Having a ton of sex doesn’t equal not lonely either.
Like Barney from HIMYM, or Charlie Sheen in 2.5 men.
I think you can generally assume that men who have a ton of sex, aside from for hire, know and interact with a lot of people.
That doesn’t equal not lonely.
Much of the time it’s a mask hiding how lonely they are.
I agree. That is essentially my original comment.
There is a capitalist alienation epidemic.
‘Everything circles back to capitalism’ is really a meme because it’s true.
I do think people living under capitalism sometimes forget the human condition exists beyond the economic condition.
More free time, less economic precarity, better health, better education, a place to call home. All of that is great. But you still need to go out and meet people.
Socialism won’t make you touch grass.
Socialism will make it WAAAAY easier rto touch grass and to ‘touch’ o ther people (to deal with your touch starvation) and even to touch people’s hearts cause youll work less than half of the hours you do right now. The 40 hour work week is to kept to keep you tired ,unimaginative, disconnected from your neighbours, yoyr community, and even disconnected from your family. We have no need to work 40 hoirs a week to keep society running. We have a lot oof things that can take care of most o f the labour we do nowadays OR a lot of the 40 hour work week jobs are just bullshit jobs like stockbrokimg or being trappped in an office wasting time.
And also in a socialistic society, the human condition is placed at the centre of everythinng that is planned or done. If the people in a socialistic society collectively agree and their research and researchers also collectively agree through theor data that there is a ‘loneliness epidemic AND that the loneliness epidemiic is worsening the human condition of the people’? The poeple of that socialistic society will collectively put in the work to permanently change society so that there will probably never be another loneliness epidemic whilst fixing the current loneliness epidemic.
THATS how socialism will work for problems like these.
There is no male loneliness epidemic; there is a loneliness epidemic. They have been talking about it since at least 2020 and it predates the pandemic. Anyone calling it a male loneliness epidemic is absolutely engagement farming. The entire manosphere is a rage-bait-engagement-farming scam.
Not just engagement. Back when it was just a loneliness epidemic, there were talks of maybe bringing back third places, or changing society to help. Then it became a male epidemic, and suddenly it was someone else’s problem, it’s an individual issue, no need to make a cause of it.
who would want to help men? that’s gay.
There’s a general loneliness epidemic, but there’s a difference between men and women.
If only I knew earlier that the males are all suffering with virginity. I could be out there solving this thing one by one (I’m gay).
i don’t think the virgins are on grindr
I know. They’re on 4chan.
it is particularly male though because studies show older men don’t have friends
no men have friends.
and women have friends, but hate all of them and talk about how awful they are.
which once is better off?
i mean the multiple studies concluded women and that men need t o allowed to share emotions in American society
studies tell us obesity is bad for us.
and we keep getting fatter.
almost as if people don’t listen to studies, and act on impulse and emotion…
They were talking about it way before the epidemic. I remember at least as far back as middle Obama presidency that there was a show talking with one of his campaigners and they brought up the statistics on the number of people that would claim to have X amount of “close friends” declining.
There is a definite difference in the man/woman divide though on those numbers.
It’s useful to talk about how the loneliness epidemic affects men and women differently. But when someone talks about the “male” loneliness epidemic and all it’s statistics about virginity, you know their bigger problem is how they spend their time online.
Oh, agreed. Anyone who brings virginity into the context of adults having fewer and fewer relationships that matter is either an incel or a troll.
As if married men or men who have had sex at least once can’t be lonely. “You got your dick wet 20 years ago, what’s the problem?!”
Dudes don’t have friends. That’s the epidemic.
They might not have friends. And even if they have friends, where’s the love? Everybody is doing their own thing. Even a married man can feel loneliness, and if they do, it’s good to start a conversation.
Yeah, can you imagine living in a house 24/7/365 with a glass wall full of strangers? And you feel like the last member of your species? Perhaps, we solved “what would you do if you were marooned on an island, alone (or with a strange female/male)?”
Dudes don’t have friends.
I’ve got plenty of dude friends. And they’ve got friends of their own.
Clubs are full of dudes. Rec leagues are full of dudes. Schools are full of dudes. Bunch of dudes on my street hang out regularly We’re all hanging out and making friends with one another.
It’s real, it’s happening.
But theres still a sizeable pprtion of men dying from deaths of despair ESPECIALLY in middle age. Why is that?
Have you ever stopped to ask these specific men why they have such shit quality of life that theyd rather kill themselves with food and substances? It probanly has somethjng to do with the fact that they havve so few friends and now that their spouse is divorcored from them or dead they have NOBODY to conmect with cause making friends as a middle aged man or a middle aged single dad is excruciatingly hard.
What you see in clubs and school or on the street isnt super relevant if the data that we are observing shows us something else!
Why is that?
Well, they’re living longer, for starters. Historically, a bunch would already be dead, so they won’t be around to be sad.
Dudes make friends with each other so damn easy it’s a meme for a reason.
Like women have to simultaneously live in a world where you call us all catty bitches who compete with each order but also you all have no fucking friends and can’t make any and boohoo. Pick a fucking lane!
You’re being very reductive. I don’t know who called you a catty bitch but chances are it wasn’t every man who’s ever complained about being lonely.
So when you throw it in men’s faces and say pick a lane, you’re kinda doing the same thing that some men do when after encountering one or two golddiggers they make sweeping generalizations like “women only want men for their money.”
Men can be lonely. Men can also be assholes. But when you try to invalidate some men’s loneliness because some men are assholes, that’s a problem. And that tendency to generalize is one of the big contributing factors to male loneliness today.
Also, I’ve heard women call each other catty bitches, so don’t pretend that’s something only men do. The men you’ve heard say it might even have been repeating what they heard from other women.
It’s a fool who believes that the circumstantial “friends” you make because you happen to be in the same place at the same time are true, ride or die, listen to your problems, give good advice friends.
The former you can make practically anywhere you go, like you said, it’s a meme. The latter are tough, maybe a couple in your whole life kind of encounters. The former will fill a room and you won’t be alone, the latter will take up one seat and you won’t feel lonely. Quantity vs quality.
Exactly.
The problem is quality not quantity.
If you meet and bang a trillion people off of tinder (and ya I get it there are not 1 trillion humans) but you never emotionally connect with ANY of them there is NO WAY IN HELLLLL you have a better quality of life than a random person who met one person on tinder, completely connectef with that one person from tinder emotionally, and spent the rest of their life with that one tinder partner.
Any human who isnt a deranged megalomaniac would trade an infinite number of acquaintances, associates, and fake friends for one random stranger they met in a public washroom who is way older than them but who understannds and connects with their beliefs and their liifestyle completely.
This is why billionaires and politically connected jerks tend to have so many ‘associates’ , they know a gal that knows a couple guys that can ‘take care of business’ or ‘take out a target’ for you or them, and rarely do they ever have that small , quiet group of true friends.
trump is probably the most powerful man on the planet thanks to his nuclear arsenal…how many true friends do you think he has based on the people youve seen him meet over the years?..
Cause friendship is surface level. Try talking about your feelings to one of them and see how quickly you feel alienated.
And it’s not sunshine on other side either in their defense. I’ve been in kind of an all women group once, it was genuinely a suffocating experience. Like there are just so many mannerisms and subtle etiquettes you need to pick up, it’s almost harder to talk your mind in all women setting than in all men.
And who’s you? I don’t think either OP or the commenter is the person calling women catty bitches. Everyone’s experience is different, and its better if you give it back to those who called you a catty bitch rather than a random dude on the internet.
You also gotta pre-emptively accept the possibility that youll NEVER meet friends or a partner who wants to be associated with you despite your best efforts. It is a possibility and there is nothing wrong with you if that happens to you and youre a kind, quiet , peaceful person. It is what it is
Human-Human relationships are sort of an ‘It Is Whatt It Is Type Of Affair’ these days. You can do everything kindly and to your best efforts to meet other like-minded people …and everyone can still not want to be your friend or lover. You can be worst than Adolph Shiter or Suharto and be surrounded with a million admirers and fake friends. It is what it is.
'Sadly it is what it is BUT At least you tried ’ is how I see it nowadays. 🤷🏿♂️
Best of wishes to you and everyone else who is lonely out here. Best of wishes on the journey comrade.🫂🫡
Women are about as lonely as men.
The problem is that they’re human and exist in an anti-human environment.
You know who else are lonely? Animals in zoos.
We have created an almost perfect anti-human environment.
The Human Condition is discredited in almost everythimg we plan and do nowadays. The people of the Global South will probably go extinct in the next 200 years because of global warming and we have planned and created car-ceentric, anti-green energy societies all over the planet .
Most people are sad about this but most people have little say in the politics of their country.I was wrong. Most people probably dont care.Most people are sad about this? Most decent people are sad about it. Many people are not decent people, or are being told that being decent people is bad, weak, and probably woke.
Actially … you are correct and Im wrong.
I am a man who believes that 'If something is substantial amongst the people? Then a MASSIVE response from the people will be substantiated"
If most people actually cared about the anti-human environment we have made …why have nost people not put in the work to change this? If most people actually cared about the effects that global warming will have on the planet , ESPECIALLY the Global South and the equitoreal countries… why have most peoole not put in the work to show that they care?
You have said it. The truth is that most people are not decent and that they dont care about either of these issues cause they just keep on and keep on mindlessly making more babies to be miserable with them and going to work in their gas guzzling cars and heck some people definitely dont even need a car to do the things in life that they do and yet… they still own them and use them far too frequently.
Don’t forget the second part of what I said:
or are being told that being decent people is bad, weak, and probably woke.
Never underestimate propaganda and peer pressure. If everyone around you acts like it is not a big thing, you won’t either.
My pet theory is that almost all stable societies need some kind of enforced normal-ness. Whether it’s being catholic and paying taxes to the king, being a cheeseburger-eating, bud light drinking, tuck-driving redneck or even being a tree-hugging wannabe-leftist academic with a bike and a mullet. Monkeys like being around people telling them they are normal. Society organises to provide a sense of “normal”. It is extremely hard to break through this, and it essentially only works if a large party of the people form a new normal.
Personally I fee l that ‘normalness’ , no matter what form it takes, shouldnt include the bombing of Yemeni, Iranians and Lebanese civilians and the deliberate depressing of wages of poor people, Or the destruction of the livelihoods of poor Equitoreal communities through climate change
Most people still see it as ‘normal’ to join the american and israeli militaries and still see iit as noormal to bomb out Yemeni, Lebanese and Iranian civilians (which is STILL happening as I type this and there has never been a substantiated uproar tto stop this)
Most people still see it as ‘normal’ that most people from the Global South get paid as if they were slaves and remain in poverty or near poverty no matter what they do oor how hard they work.
Most people still seee it as ‘normal’ just go out and about in this anti-green energy world that we have created here even though the IPCC has proven thatt climate change wil irreperably. destory every community nearr the equator and in the Global South for the next 200 years!
Please note: I chose the word “normal” for lack of a better word, and in its most technical sense only. I do not want to imply any moral judgement.
But in that sense of the word, yes, shrugging when the news show pictures of dead innocents is “normal”. Just like not too long ago it was normal to not treat black people like human beings, or a bit before that, to burn people who disagree with your religious dogma at the stake. In another part of the world, it was normal to sacrifice a poor sod every now and then to make sure the harvests are successful. And don’t get me started on the history of wars. All of this is “normal” as in, it was perceived to be just how things are by the majority.
Actually, I believe that only by understanding that normal and morally right do not necessarily have anything in common, one can understand how bad the “normal” is, and demand change. “Can’t you see this is bad and we need to do something” does not work because no, it is normal to do nothing. Creating a new normal is pretty damn hard, creating a morally better one is even harder.
First of all: that is not how it works
Second of all: the loneliness epidemic is not just happening to men, it is happening to everybody.
Third of all: loneliness can happen to anyone, even people who appear to have it all. It is not just the extreme stereotype of the hermit who barely speaks to a living soul for two years, that is valid in feeling lonely. Sometimes it’s the people who seem to have a big network of friends who are the loneliest because all their friendships are superficial and the person may struggle to commit to others and be vulnerable. Other people become distractions from a deep hurt and selfloathing, they don’t know how to address. No one is ever let in because it’s too scary and risky to show weakness. But you have 50 friends and is everybody’s pal, so you can’t be lonely, right?
And then there’s the more mundane type of loneliness, that happens to a lot of people in the first world when they enter the workforce and/or start a family. It can become terribly lonely when you don’t have the time and energy to nurture friendships and community because you work all the time and in the current day and age, social activity takes place on screens. People hang out on social media where they share pics and political views instead of meeting up for a beer or a lemonade to chat like our parents’ generations did.
I have seen countless posts from 30somethings over the past decade, who ask about how to make friends at their age because they feel so lonely and all their old friends live far away. These are men and women. Some of them are parents of newborns others are single career people who have been grinding and suddenly realized they have neglected their social life.
Everybody is lonely in this day and age. I have felt lonely for years because i had to grind at work and didnt have time for recrrational activities. I have plenty of friends, good family and a lovely boyfriend and I was still lonely because I had to work all the time. Doesn’t help that all my friends and family live far away so most of our interactions are on screens and not in the flesh. And if there is anything I think the modern first world human being is undervaluing and neglecting, it’s physical closeness and irl community. The screens have replaced that despite being the shittiest substitute for physical touch imaginable.
To me, there is nothing that can calm every cell in my body like a hug from someone i love and whom I know loves me back. It is irreplacable.
Eh idk, my experience with the “male loneliness epidemic” is:
It’s not just about “sex” (which it seems like that’s all EVERYONE can focus on, so I get it,) but also about deeper meaningful connections. Personally, I have a few FWB, I want to fall in love with someone again, though, tbf, the part of me that had the ability to do that could also be dead, kinda hard to tell tbh.
It’s also about (again, for me) the fact that increasingly it seems that the ONLY places acceptable to meet a woman you have not yet talked to are:
A) Online dating services that sell your data, are designed not to give good matches because they want you to stay on the app, and charge a fee for the apps to even be useful, and they’re all owned by one company.
B) The bar. That’s it.
Well, as for A, I value my privacy, and don’t enjoy paying money to have horrible experiences. I run GrapheneOS idek if tindr would run. I don’t even have social media, I can’t stand writing my own bio and don’t take selfies, it’s not a good option for anyone but doubly so for me. Also I’m not Tom Cruise (or whoever you’re horny for just sub them in) level attractive and as such I have to rely on my personality, which isn’t really text and picture based. As for B, I do still drink but not like I used to, and even if I did I can’t afford to go out as much as I used to in this fucked economy, and tbh meeting drunk women doesn’t seem like a good idea anymore, feels like it opens me up to problems I don’t fucking need tbh.
So where does that leave me? Well, common advice is to:
“Have your friends set you up with someone.” Ok great. None of them have any single friends, at least none that have expressed interest in being set up with me, or that I am interested in myself. So, either “pray,” or I could actively make new friends just for the express purpose of finding out if they have hot friends that want me, if not, move to the next friend I can find and try again? Sounds like a bad plan to me. I don’t have the social battery for all that honestly.
“Go to the gym,” you mean the place women complain about being hit on the most? Sure, that’ll help, “idfk how to use this giant machine and I know you just watched me look like a giant idiot, and I know you hate being asked here, but I saw you from across the yoga mat and thought you had a cool vibe, wanna go out some time?” That’s setting yourself up for success right there lol.
“Find a hobby,” yes because when I’m not at work or sleeping I simply stand and stare at a wall. OF COURSE I have hobbies, but not only do “women want to enjoy their hobbies without being approached” also my hobby is hiking local trails and taking pics of (mundane to you but to me,) neat animals like salamanders and snakes. Idk if you guys are aware of this, but women would rather meet a literal bear in the woods than a nerd with a camera, I used to talk to people on the trails but now I just give them a wide berth (unless they’re dudes, dudes are chill). Also like the library, but I’m the only one under 70 (well, and above 18, lots of parents with kids but that doesn’t help me lol), other than the cute librarian I have a crush on (but you’re not supposed to ask them out while they’re working either, and also if she says no it’ll now be awkward every time I go cause I’ll feel like a creep, so she’ll never know).
The real solutions seem to be we need a third place that is acceptable to meet someone and ask them out politely and take no for an answer, or women would need to start asking men they like if it’s unacceptable the other way around, or I need to become gay because as I said earlier guys are chill, you can talk to them anywhere. Unfortunately we’re actively killing third places and the ones still alive women complain about being approached, women so rarely ask a guy out and I don’t think it’s becoming more common, and afaik I was born unlucky on the gayness.
And I mean, am I “lonely?” Idk. I have friends, FWBs, kitties, I’ve had abusive relationships worse than loneliness, so “no” I guess, but also yes insofar as “I haven’t felt real love in about 15 years and it’d be pretty cool to feel that for someone again,” and I’ll guaranteed never find it if I don’t start doing the secret solution: Just say fuck it, fuck you, and fuck what is socially acceptable, just start asking out ANY woman I see/like ANYWHERE, politely and take no for an answer of course, but anywhere. At my job, at her job, at the gym, in Aisle 10, on the trails, fuck it. If I don’t it seems my only option is to pray to a god I’ve never believed in that a lady falls in front of me like goddamn Rufus in Dogma and she happens to like me, and I happen to like her lmao.
That’s an effective summary of the situation. Society has effectively made it taboo to pursue dating/romance in just about any irl space where you might meet someone. Makes me wonder how much was social engineering on the part of dating apps (like Match group astroturfing on reddit/social media).
As for your last paragraph, sorry to tell you this, but that won’t work either. People will start noticing and telling their friends about you, calling you names, saying you ask out literally every woman you meet, calling you fuckboy, creep, or whatever. It doesn’t matter how polite you are or how respectful. In fact if you bring attention to how polite and respectful you’re being, they’ll view that as even worse. Eventually someone will sneak a picture of you and it’ll make the rounds on social media. There are entire sites and apps dedicated to women gossiping about men. It doesn’t take much to kill your whole reputation. And women talk to each other about the men they see, so if you become known as “that guy,” then even if you meet a woman who hasn’t heard of you and things start going well, eventually one of her friends will tell her you’re a walking red flag and she’ll ghost you without an explanation.
So no, casting a wide net is not a solution. And if you’re waiting for the perfect woman to fall into your lap and make all the moves and seem to genuinely like you, you’re more likely to get catphished than you are to find love.
This is just the world we’re living in now. Hate to break it to you…
That’s an effective summary of the situation. Society has effectively made it taboo to pursue dating/romance in just about any irl space where you might meet someone. Makes me wonder how much was social engineering on the part of dating apps (like Match group astroturfing on reddit/social media).
i tend to think it’s a christian thing. “sexuality and lust are evil, you’re not supposed to flirt” kinda thing.
As for your last paragraph, sorry to tell you this, but that won’t work either. People will start noticing and telling their friends about you, calling you names, saying you ask out literally every woman you meet, calling you fuckboy, creep, or whatever. It doesn’t matter how polite you are or how respectful. In fact if you bring attention to how polite and respectful you’re being, they’ll view that as even worse. Eventually someone will sneak a picture of you and it’ll make the rounds on social media. There are entire sites and apps dedicated to women gossiping about men. It doesn’t take much to kill your whole reputation. And women talk to each other about the men they see, so if you become known as “that guy,” then even if you meet a woman who hasn’t heard of you and things start going well, eventually one of her friends will tell her you’re a walking red flag and she’ll ghost you without an explanation.
and that is also spot-on. 100%
Ya I remember encountering a gossip website that had mostly what I believed to be women talking about men and women they had dated.
I swear the website must have been breaking some rules cause I was shocked that such website could talk so explicitly about people.
Like one of the people talked about was a woman who lives in Niagara Falls she works part time as a prostitute to make ends meet, and they eben shared her full name, picture , AND her address. The women there, who saod they were women, who had befriended her said that she ‘acts too nice’ and ‘she doesnt want to partake in gossip which makes her an awful persom cause gossiping helps you learn more about yourself’ … 😐 They said other nasty things about her too.
There was another profipe of a man, mid 50s, Black , with his picture, full name, and address once again. The women who dated him said that he is a weordo because he only eats plain food. Like he only drinks water. WHen he eats a hotdog he only eats it plain. No condiments on his burger . A group of the women reportd that ‘he isnt a man cause his penis doesnt work. He has no swimmers in his sperm. Dont date him’ . They said some other nasty things about him too
The thing I found earth shattering is that these are only 2 profiles of 2 differemt peoplr on this website. Bro…that website had HUNDREDS of profiles of different people. Even politicians had profiles made of them by the people who dated them there.
If I ever find that website agaim Ill HAVE to share it cause it… its earth shatterimg that such a website can have people just talk aboit each other and others like that. But hopefully the website is down by now.
Personally I dont feel that women or men or any people of any gender are a ‘monolith’ . Most people in my experience based on wjho Ive talked to and what weve talked about are out doing their own things. Though obviously my experience is just once experience. There are clearly some places where the people act in monolithic, spiteful and ‘gossipy and busybodying’ ways
that is so well-written it deserves a place on my disk.
yeah, that’s precisely how it is. effectively you can’t date women today. i’ve given up. i’m bi so i have other options but damn is the situation not good for anyone straight today.
dating was easy in the 2000s.
mostly because women, and everybody really, weren’t such self-important arrogant assholes. they had a sense of humility and modesty that… basically nobody has today.
everyone today thinks they are an epic hero in a tragic story of their life. It’s insane. nobody wants to deal with that, and yet people can’t get over themselves and realize they are just people.
these days every other person i meet, especially under 40, basically wont’ shut up about how persecuted and unfair their life is, evne when objectively, they have it better than 99% of other people, if anything it gets worse the more successful they are.
the issue isn’t ‘third spaces’ or any of the stuff people whing about on here. it’s that social media has turned the average person into a fucking monster, and well, the vast majority of people use social media. 90% of women under 40 use social media on a daily basis, and for under 30 it’s like 96%. Boys trail by about 10-15%.
the same reason that when i walk my dog… only people over 50 every acknowledge or say hi to me. younger folks entirely have lost all ability to socialize without turning it into an ‘epic struggle’. or some battle of the sex or wills.
I date actively. 15 years ago my dates were mostly chill… now most of my dates, even younger dates, are adversarial and hostile out of the gate. and they wonder why they can’t ‘connect’ well… because their default disposition towards the world is ‘i hate it’ rather than ‘i am curious to learn about it’.
my mind is blow as each year goes by how, more and more hostile people are in general, especially towards anyone who is ‘different’ than them. I’ve even been on dates where I am trying ot have a nice time and my date is like sitting there, shitting on the people around us for the most stupid/shallow reasons, and like expects me to think that is ‘fun’ or trashing their friends to me and uptalking themself, and I’m just… appalled at how gross they are being.
You need to find a trail hiking group. You don’t need to change hobbies it sounds like. Try organizing a hike in your area and invite people to come along if you can’t find any. You’ll meet people quickly doing that.
Genuinely though the bar is at the floor for guys right now. If you are well groomed, friendly, and genuinely interested in learning about the specific woman you’re talking to then that alone would bump you up a lot of your potential matches. If you’re walking anywhere and the other person looks like they’re not trying to ignore your existence then you have better chances.
Try going shopping on the weekend; lots of woman are more willing to talk in stores and such when they’re not stressed out from work. If they hold eye contact with you in a friendly way then try saying hi and just chatting to get to know them a little and what they’re out and about for.
this is complete nonsense. generic internet advice that ‘seems plausible’ but if you go into the real world you’ll quickly realize what bullshit it is.
If they hold eye contact with you in a friendly way then try saying hi and just chatting to get to know them a little and what they’re out and about for.
written by somebody who has absolutely zero real-life experience. if you do that, women will say that you can’t just let people “be nice” and have to take everything up as a flirting opportunity.
written by somebody who has absolutely zero real-life experience.
Make up whatever reality suits you about me man.
if you do that, women will say that you can’t just let people “be nice” and have to take everything up as a flirting opportunity.
You don’t have to flirt with everyone making eye contact with you. Intention is what matters, intending just to flirt doesn’t usually come across as you being genuinely interested in them as an individual.
If someone holds eye contact with you in a friendly way in a store, saying hi to them will probably make them feel better more often than not. Asking them about why they’re out and about gives them room to talk and choose if they want to carry a conversation with you. If they want to keep the conversation going, they certainly might and possibly even bounce it back by asking what’s got you out and about.
You have to remember body language matters a lot for in person conversations as well. So if they’re looking at their phone or looking around like they want out of the conversation then definitely take that as a sign to let it go. Tempered body language of your own can convey a lot on its own as well. Such as not coming across as too desperate for their attention.
I’m down, but where? That whole “not doing social media” thing means no Facebook, where all those local hiking groups would be organizing, or where I’d have to post if I were the organizer (and organizing a meeting then trying to meet a woman there feels sketchy, anyway).
Genuinely though the bar is at the floor for guys right now. If you are well groomed, friendly, and genuinely interested in learning about the specific woman you’re talking to then that alone would bump you up a lot of your potential matches.
Yeah honestly that isn’t my issue, once I get my foot in the door I’m good, but all the doors are locked and I can’t find my pick, the issue is starting that conversation to begin with.
Try going shopping on the weekend; lots of woman are more willing to talk in stores and such when they’re not stressed out from work. If they hold eye contact with you in a friendly way then try saying hi and just chatting to get to know them a little and what they’re out and about for.
Fair enough, this is basically a more succinct and less explicit version of my final conclusion lol. That’s kinda the plan, but most women I talk to (irl or online) seem to indicate that is socially unacceptable now too.
Which actually probably helps the bar being on the floor btw, all the guys afraid of making women uncomfortable and being creepy are not approaching them because they complained and we listened, now the only guys approaching women in public are the ones who don’t care about creeping them out, because they didn’t listen. I’m not saying that’s the whole problem but it has to be some %.
all the guys afraid of making women uncomfortable and being creepy are not approaching them because they complained and we listened, now the only guys approaching women in public are the ones who don’t care about creeping them out, because they didn’t listen.
Absolutely correct. I’ve been pointing this out for years and people gaslight me about it and act like I’m the problem for calling attention to it, but it absolutely is a real phenomenon.
There might be public postings already out there listed at a local community college, community center, or city website for public events near you. If you post a meet up, do so with the intent of just bringing people to together and having fun, doing so with just intent of meeting women should come second. If you meet people that you vibe with then for sure invite them to more hikes or other shared activities.
Hosting Partifuls could help a lot to get things off the ground as well. My friend does those all of the time even for the most mundane things and lots of friends and acquaintances will show up and bring friends along.
For getting your foot in the door, it’s a lot of putting yourself in the right spaces to meet people. If you don’t have an issue actually connecting, then that’s a great start. I’d advise trying friend finding apps too since the pressure is offloaded on those compared to strictly dating apps. Lots of women want to find guys they could at least be friends with first before committing to dating. You remove a lot of the barriers of pressure when meeting up doesn’t have to be a date, but can be if you both are connecting.
Fair enough, this is basically a more succinct and less explicit version of my final conclusion lol. That’s kinda the plan, but most women I talk to (irl or online) seem to indicate that is socially unacceptable now too.
I feel where you go matters, what time you go matters, and not forcing the interaction matters for this. If you go to a woman dominated space and are confident and cool headed about it, just that and being dressed the part for being there could have you being checked out by women. Probably less a bookstore, more a ‘healthy’ lunch spot or outdoor/indoor mall. After their first coffee and before lunch? You’re golden. Specifically during/after lunch? Golden. After dinner? Generally fine.
Which actually probably helps the bar being on the floor btw, all the guys afraid of making women uncomfortable and being creepy are not approaching them because they complained and we listened, now the only guys approaching women in public are the ones who don’t care about creeping them out, because they didn’t listen. I’m not saying that’s the whole problem but it has to be some %.
You gotta believe and know that you’re coming with pure intentions; if you get caught up in the anxiety of not trying to look weird/creepy it’ll just come off that way instead imo. Out in the world, woman are way more chill than online makes women out to be. There are certainly a number of women that are reasonably wary, due to weirdos with no respect boundaries, but if you look, act, and are friendly then you definitely will meet woman that have been looking for someone like that.
You also gotta pre-emptively accept the possibility that youll NEVER meet friends or a partner who wants to be associated with you despite your best efforts. It is a possibility and there is nothing wrong with you if that happens to you and youre a kind, quiet , peaceful person. It is what it is
Human-Human relationships are sort of an ‘It Is Whatt It Is’ Type Of Affair these days. You can do everything kindly and to your best efforts to meet other like-minded people …and everyone can still not want to be your friend or lover. You can be worst than Adolph Shiter or Suharto and be surrounded with a million admirers and fake friends. It is what it is.
'Sadly it is what it is BUT At least you tried ’ is how I see it nowadays. 🤷🏿♂️
Best of wishes to you and everyone else who is lonely out here. Best of wishes on the journey comrade.🫂🫡
You also gotta pre-emptively accept the possibility that youll NEVER meet friends or a partner who wants to be associated with you despite your best efforts. It is a possibility and there is nothing wrong with you if that happens to you and youre a kind, quiet , peaceful person. It is what it is
I don’t believe that you need to accept a reality where you’ll never meet friends or a partner that want to be associated with you. By definition alone I would even say they are not friends and that is not a partner. Real people that would accept you as you are - are out there.
Even on the basis of probability, if only 1% of the people in this world were like that, that’s still at least 80,000,000 of people out there. Let’s say you just cared about that 1% of people in your local area - that’s still 100 people in a town of 10,000. And that’s just off a worst case scenario, the real odds would be much greater than 1% of people.
Human-Human relationships are sort of an ‘It Is Whatt It Is’ Type Of Affair these days. You can do everything kindly and to your best efforts to meet other like-minded people …and everyone can still not want to be your friend or lover.
Many people like to play safe bets in life. They know that the people they know already have been at least decent to them, so you have a bit of a higher hurdle when meeting new people or breaking the mould. Even one new friend opens up many potential doors since you’re no longer perceived as a complete unknown, you have someone that vouches for you.
When you move to a new city or are starting fresh, generally that’s when you have the hardest time finding people since you’re leaving your existing social safety net. Sometimes, it can help a lot if you have family or friends from back home that could try to introduce you to some people in your new area.
Genuinely, there are some places that would be more difficult to make friends if your hobbies aren’t so common in that area.
be surrounded with a million admirers and fake friends. It is what it is.
Imo, it’s better to live a life surrounded by a few people of high quality than just trying to impress people that don’t care about you and your wellbeing.
'Sadly it is what it is BUT At least you tried ’
Avoiding burn out in the struggle to find your found family makes sense, but I encourage you to not let your wings dampen before you have the chance to soar either - lest you live with regrets. I encourage you to take breaks when things don’t work out, but keep searching for people that value you.
I wish you the best on your journey ahead. Don’t be afraid to change things up if circumstances allow, truly sometimes you can find another version of the life you want to live in another place. I’m just here to pass along some advice since I’ve been down these roads before. 🫂
Maybe don’t say fuck it all the time but if it feels like it might be a good idea.
