I’ll hold maga and people who voted Maga responsible. I won’t shift blame. People should be free to vote for the party they want. We need more parties not more corporate loyalty towards the DNC or RNC. Democrats just use the idea of ‘well it’s either us or them’ to stay in power while never doing anything meaningful.
None of them are better than the other. Stop comparing. These posts are either retarded or a psyop.
Vote blue no matter who mfs when deep south candidate Hdolf Aitler promises free healthcare.
That aside, Democrats dgaf about their voting base - and it shows. Harris didn’t even go through general elections (which was skipped) and the DNC jumped from ol’ Biden to Harris after the fact - and from what I’m hearing from progressive Americans is that was an insult to the idea of democracy, especially when they did not want Harris whatsoever.
So let me make it clear: if the Democrats can’t secure enough votes in the midterms and the next presidential elections, it’s because they fucked up.
Then again, you could maybe start getting rid of that third party stigma and have some actual options? No? Just two parties bought up by AIPAC and JStreet?
Cue the biker jamming a stick in the wheels meme.
So, I’m not usian, but isn’t it better for the long term to show Dems that you will vote a candidate for what their policies are instead of just because they aren’t the other guy, thus making them choose candidates that at least pretend to listen to what the people want?
Voting for “not-Trump” just enables them and allows them to keep moving to the right, as long as the other guy is worse, like it’s being happening the last 20+ years. “You need to vote for the eating-babies candidate! The other one is advocating for eating babies AND puppies!”.
The problem comes when you’re weighing a protest vote/no-vote against milquetoast corporate centrism, and the outcome should that protest vote sway the election is that the Slavering Fascist Apocalypse-Makers sweep into power, turn any future elections into tightly-controlled farces, and then begin a sweeping range of internal and external pogroms. Voting for the corporate centrists sucks, but from a standpoint of harm reduction it’s the only viable choice. A bunch of people stayed home in 2024 on the logic that by doing so they’d send a message to the Democrats, and as a result America might lose its democracy entirely.
The protest vote logic 100% works when the opposing side isn’t ready to kill you given half a chance, but the American right clearly is, and has been for the last decade, and now the most vulnerable are in the literal and metaphorical crosshairs. You could make an accelerationist argument, that what we can build back up from the wreckage of what’s to come will be better for all (and it might well be!) but history tell us that’s no guarantee – and even then, you have to answer for those who won’t live to see the better days to come, or who will suffer greatly against their will in the process.
“hey shut up about genocide, will you?”
“hmmm… no, I can’t think of ONE thing I would do differently from this senile corpse”
“hey look! the Cheneys love me!”
…
“wait why didn’t enough people turn out?”
“Never blame the politicians for fielding a candidate that many would be unable to bring themselves to vote for due to her support of mass child murder, blame instead the people who can’t bring themselves to vote for a supporter of mass child murder”
– This posts and other DNC propaganda posts like it.
If one didn’t support the opposition, then they’re implicitly in support of who ends up in power.
Sadly our votes are one of the few things we have as normies that give us power, what you do and don’t do with it is important. Even if in your jurisdiction you see both (or more) candidates as being bad, there is always a lesser evil.
What opposition
That would only be correct if the voting system was not cyclical.
In reality that’s not the case: today’s vote results help shape which candidates are made available to voters the next time around, the one after that and so on.
So it’s perfectly correctly to look at the options put forward today and decide to not vote in order try and have better options available tomorrow - it’s the logic of trying to preempt a tomorrow were all choices are both worse than today’s worst option.
Mind you, this is not me saying that with Trump as one of the candidates doing so was the best possible choice - just explaining how it’s actually a logical choice if one thought Trump was not the danger he turned out to be.
I suspect that if in the last 3 decades most people had been thinking and chosing in the way I suggest rather than falling for the deceitful simplification that each time they vote they must chose the “lesser evil”, the situation were both the Democrats and the Republicans fielded Genocide supporting candidates would never have happenned since at least the Democrats would have long ago and repeateadly been punished for fielding ever more rightwing candidates and thus never arrived at a situation were their candidate was so far to the right that they support the modern day version of Nazis doing their own Genocide as long as the consequences are kept abroad.
It’s because of such mechanics and decades of too many people falling for the DNC propaganda about the obligation to vote lesser evil, that America moved more and more towards the poverty riddled Fascism shithole that it is today - somebody like Trump as POTUS was always bound to happen when the leftmost party of the Money uber-alles + Political duopoly system in the US found a way to not be punished for keeping on moving ever more to the right and even now there’s really no way this trend will stop (much less revert) until the top power of the land - Money - actually suffers for the country being too rightwing (which, curiously, might happen due to Trump, though the risk is the Republicans just replace him with a more intelligent Fascist).
May be she should have, instead of being silent pos and hence complicit in genocide, just like Trump and Biden and many European leaders.
She wasn’t silent, she openly supported Israel.
Hmmm yes, it is the victims of genocide who are smug. Big brain thinks from the humble liberal.
Harris could have won without changing a single position on anything.
All she had to do was stop listening to anyone who worked for the Clintons, and run her mouth on whatever was on her mind. Any issue, just be fucking real about it. She couldn’t/didn’t do it.
Everything Mr Trump says is some shade of a lie, but it appears true in the moment in the way that sociopaths can pass a lie detector exam. They do not betray themselves with microexpressions when they lie.
And thus he appeared genuine despite uttering nothing but bald-faced lies and she appeared to be hiding something when she was being careful and campaigning like it was still the Obama Era. It was not and he won because of it.
It’s incredible that peoples’ minds are so colonized that their first instinct is to blame voters instead of party leadership that shut down all discussion of Biden’s declining health, undemocratically anointed a wildly unpopular successor and then failed to listen to voters who were saying that supporting an ongoing genocide was a bridge too far.
American “democracy” in summary
But vote blue no matter who, do you trump to win, whatever they say that is bullshit. Never mind the Democrats leadership and neo-liberal majority have shown they’re just controlled opposition at this point. They don’t make real change, and I bet when it’s all said and done, if they get into power, will still reach across the fricking aisle.
The real change would have been to not have any of this shit we have now.
Nah, next time push for better and not a sad compromise. Learn a lesson.
Trying to explain to Americans that the fact they don’t Primary Challenge incumbent democrats is a massive part of the problem; is tiresome.
Yeah it sucks
The party leaders ousted Biden because of his declining health. Are you stupid?
Lmao
As if we all don’t know what actually happened. Biden was the candidate even though they had far better candidates including Bernie and AoC. Even Harris was crap. But keeping licking up to establishment.
I really think the left were the canary in the coal mine with this entire Israel issue. I personally know people who didn’t give a fuck about Gaza during the election, who are now really wondering why shit is the way it is, who are slowly realizing (in their own ways) how it’s all connected.
Enabling netanyahus best buddy to become president was not a smart move.
We agree. Pathetic that democrats lost to him twice
My default assumption is that whenever there’s a widespread youth protest movement focused on improving rights or human safety, most of the time those kids are on the right side of history.
Not necessarily the left, but I’ve always called trans and disabled people a canary in the coalmine for fascism. We’re always among the first groups they come for
Blaming anyone that voted third party is one of the most tiresome, braindead, selfish opinions. Seriously, get over yourself. The entire reason we’re in this mess is because of the two party system putting people against eachother instead of the greedy villains surviving the life out of the country. Stop being weak and giving in to the lesser evil. Compromising with harm only brings about more harm.
In conclusion, fuck you.
No fuck you, how would compromising and voting for the lesser harm have been worse than what we have now?
Blaming anyone that voted third party is one of the most tiresome, braindead, selfish opinions.
It’s also mathematically ignorant. If Harris received every single third party vote excluding RFK Jr’s, even if you include Libertarians who are more right-leaning, she still would’ve lost.
That is like saying that because nobody dies from measles, it is mathematically ignorant to support vaccines.
Yes, the Republicans haven’t won an election because of third party voters since Nader handed the win to Bush in 2000. But that is because people have been smart enough since then to not throw their vote away. Burned by fire.
[Harris] still would’ve lost.
That is probably the stupidest argument I have heard this week. And I have heard a lot of stupid arguments.
Harris didn’t dance naked through Washington wearing only a clown nose, but Harris still would’ve lost if she did that. By your argument, there is no reason for politicians not to dance naked through Washington wearing only a clown nose…
They will blame third parties, meanwhile 6 million of THEM couldn’t even be bothered to vote.
it’s never their fault, all the way down
It doesn’t matter who you voted for, neither group is putting the effort needed to protest and shut what the government is doing down. All parties are culpable to what is going on.
Im no different, I’m also guilty of this, but I recognize I need to do more and I’m trying.
Feeling righteous and indignant on the internet moves progress backwards and allows the bots to win.
Here’s the thing, in the reality that existed in November 2024, there were only 4 choices. 1) Vote for Trump, 2) vote for Harris, 3) vote 3rd party, or 4) don’t vote at all.
Simple math and logic dictate that at that point in time ANY ACTION other than voting for Harris was supporting Trump.
Argue all you want about the two party system being terrible, the distribution of Electoral College votes per capita over states being wrong, the impact of freezing the House seat numbers, or anything else related HAS NO IMPACT on the general election.
For the record, I hate all of the items I mentioned above, but NONE of that mattered come November.
Anyone disputing this is either a disinformation psyop/bot, a champion of a US downfall, or a complete moron.
Do better next time when choosing a candidate.
Anyone who thinks they can debate voters into voting for someone they don’t like after saying all that is also a complete moron. I would never question your intelligence so I assume this is simply to feel better about the situation.
It’s a democracy, until it isn’t.
My point is that anyone who says they didn’t like Harris when she was literally the only viable choice come the general elections must therefore be totally fine with Trump, because that’s what the actual effect of their decision was.
All of this idealistic backwards reasoning they are using to somehow absolve themselves from having fucking Trump as the president is just foolishness.
It’s all of your USAmericans fault. At least the people voting this party are trying to change the status quo.
Or may be the democratic leadership was totally fine knowing well and good that Harris or Biden has good chance of losing and they still fronted her. All of this money motivated selfishness of Democratic establishment just piles on top of having Trumps president. They should have fronted AoC or Bernie very early on.
Simple math and logic dictate that at that point in time ANY ACTION other than voting for Harris was supporting Trump.
Logically, it must then follow that ANY ACTION other than voting for Trump was supporting Harris.
Did I also vote Marianne Williamson, Cenk Uygur, and Cornell West by voting for Jill Stein? Or just Trump and Harris? I’m trying to figure out the limits to this new infinite-voting glitch we discovered together.
Logically, it must then follow that ANY ACTION other than voting for Trump was supporting Harris
Yes, from the perspective of those who saw Harris as the worst outcome (cue clip of the “apparently I’m an idiot” lady).
For the others, not really no. Sure a coin flip could technically land on the edge, but in real-world conditions it’s even less likely to be called that way.
No because 1) he won so any votes not going directly to him didn’t matter in the end, and 2) Republicans tend to fall in line and vote R no matter what versus idealistic leftists and accelerationists who won’t vote for anyone unless they 100% align with their views, and interesting that the hard line for them is Gaza, not any of the other catastrophic outcomes from the Trump presidency. Almost like these were disingenuous arguments to begin with.
Next time push for a better candidate with some morals instead of a sad compromise that lacks any moral integrity like Harris or Biden. I think, people like you are a giant problem who are very flexible with their moral systems as long as it doesn’t directly hurt you. Reminds me of the poem:
First they came for the Communists And I did not speak out Because I was not a Communist
Then they came for the Socialists And I did not speak out Because I was not a Socialist
Then they came for the trade unionists And I did not speak out Because I was not a trade unionist
Then they came for the Jews And I did not speak out Because I was not a Jew
Then they came for me And there was no one left To speak out for me
People like you don’t care until they come for you. May be speak up when they front people like immoral Biden or Harris.
you’re dense as a rock.
sometimes speaking up and voting thirdparty and not voting the small evil IS the moral choice, sure.
however, in the reality of " a fixed amount of people will vote republican no matter what, and a variable amount will vote dems if they feel like it " you have to allow yourself to go against the most moral choice and opt for the 2nd most moral.
If both candidates support getting rid of Gaza, but one of them also wants to nuke half the planet, the choice is obvious no?
Not to mention compounding factors like… if you actually want change for the better you vote for the thing with the highest likelihood of winning. the thing that changes things to your side.
Maybe the missing votes and the 3rd party wouldn’t have been enough, maybe. But if all those missing votes showed up and the US still ended up ruled by the current clown, maybe the discussion would have just been “wow MAGAOTTS fucking suck” instead of all the useless finger pointing and infighting.
But go ahead, tell me how flexible morals are shady, compared to the rigid and tunneled “this thing is bad and i will die on my little bump” rigid morality that is oh so common with the MAGAOTTS mentioned earlier.
don’t expect them to accept logic.
Oh I dont lol
Good on you for breaking this down to a fifth grader level. Problem is most people here don’t seem to have that level of comprehension.
You’re an act utilitarian. Rule utilitarians disagree with you. Yours is not the only ethical system, and it’s the height of hubris and arrogance to pretend that only your moral system is valid.
What moral system throws millions of vulnerable people under the bus so you can brag about how tall your horse is?
You should have talked about Morals when they fronted Biden who got not morals.
We did, loudly. it didn’t matter for shit.
So why did you do it again?
Clearly not enough
Try not to ask such loaded questions. You’re better than that. I know you can do better.
Again, act utilitarianism vs rule utilitarianism. Rule utilitarianism is what our laws use. You’re using act utilitarianism, which has a much poorer track record. A rule utilitarian would say, “we need a hard and fast rule that genocide is wrong. Anyone who supports genocide is a criminal that deserves zero support and respect. This rule creates the greatest good for the greatest number over time.” An act utilitarian says, “this genocide may be OK, if it’s the lesser evil. If I can convince myself it’s on net positive, then it’s the moral thing to do.”
Our laws use rule utilitarianism. You’re not allowed to argue in court that murdering a guy was a net positive to the world. We instead say, “banning all murders will result in the greatest good for the greatest number, so we’ll outlaw all murders.”
You can have two systems that each try to optimize for the greatest good to the greatest number. Rule utilitarians create bright rules that on net, over time, result in the greatest good for the greatest number and avoid the temptation to justify horrible acts by arguing for the greater good. Act utilitarians try to judge each act individually, ignoring a lot of the context and pretending that this act exists in complete isolation from all acts before and after.
Act utilitarianism is literally the moral philosophy of the Holocaust.
The apt poem for them
First they came for the Communists And I did not speak out Because I was not a Communist
Then they came for the Socialists And I did not speak out Because I was not a Socialist
Then they came for the trade unionists And I did not speak out Because I was not a trade unionist
Then they came for the Jews And I did not speak out Because I was not a Jew
Then they came for me And there was no one left To speak out for me
Ours laws as written maybe, but certainly not in practice. How can you argue that the outcome of our laws show any adherence to rule utilitarianism?
First past the post creating a two party system is a result of math. You might as well complain about Pi would be easier to remember if Pi=3.0 . Math doesn’t care about your feelings.
The US electoral system is not a universal constant. It is not pi or the speed of light. It is a system by which rich people maintain control over a declining imperial power, based on a document written by slave owners 250 years ago as part of a tax dodging scheme.
but but but Russia!!! China!!!
thats a good point. pi being 3.14159 is bullshit and I’ve had enough of it.
Would you like a hankie?
They are correct, and your response here just proves how absolutely braindead you are. Maybe it’s time for some introspection?
Maybe it’s time for a hankie?
you’re hopeless.
Took you this long to figure that out?
Someone said it here. Thank you!
It’s not about your stupid little election anymore, Americans. There is nothing more unimportant than your two parties. You’re being kicked out of the middle east and the basis for your global empire is crumbling. Soon you’ll be kicked out of the rest of the world too, and the contest between the “do nothing” party and the “make life worse” party will matter to Americans and Americans alone.
Good thing for the world. US has committed alongside USSR most amount of violence in the world in last 70 years. Not to mention US has invested many terrorist groups and many problems that exist today.
I agree entirely except for the thing about the USSR
USSR bombed Afghanistan to stone age.
That’s a nice fantasy, but, it’s not real. This will be painful for the US and it will have less of an ability to leverage its ability to project power for diplomatic gains, it will be far more painful for the overwhelming majority of the rest of the world. The only winners in this are Russia and Iran (pending sanctions relief and the ability to rebuild their infrastructure), but the US and China (and their closest economic partners) lose the least, and between nations that’s as near as makes no difference to winning.
For as long as the US remains a cohesive entity, it will remain a world power, if maybe not the global hegemon that it has been, but it’s a long road from here to there and despite the best attempts of Trump et al, we’re not there yet and there are many things that could yet happen to derail that process.
I wouldn’t be so sure. You have a lot of money, a lot of people, and a large military, yes. But the money is fake, the people by and large aren’t doing anything productive, and the military is less and less effective. You don’t have the industrial capacity to be anything more than a regional power - what has made up for it in the time since you moved all your industry to China is your financial power, but that is dependent on, among other things, the petrodollar, which is now under direct threat.
Your neighbours will still have to worry about you, for a time at least, but outside of the western hemisphere you’ll shortly be as relevant as you were 200 years ago or so.
Trump being President proves the USA is going down, and the world economy will suffer for it. But, inevitable.
You may not enjoy what follows
It had to happen, I choose to enjoy it
We’re just getting started.
Good luck
Right back atcha!
deleted by creator
Never ceases to amaze me that she cared more about killing innocent people than she did about winning that election.
