The first decriminalization of homosexuality in an industrialized nation occurred when Lenin legislated it in the newly formed Soviet Union. Stalin eventually rolled it back unfortunately but for a bit more than a decade you could essentially be freely homosexual in the same time period that you could watch a new black and white movie.
EDIT: Thanks to a heads-up from one of our comrades, I realized that one of my statements was unintentionally reactionary. It has since been removed and they have my thanks.
I get why people talk about this in this way, but I think it’s a mistake to ascribe intent to this when the decriminalization was a by product of doing away with the Tsarist legal code entirely. There are other instances of socialist states actively pursuing a policy in the direction of queer liberation (earlier and more comprehensive than even modern Western states), such as the GDR in the 80’s and Cuba with their new constitution, but unfortunately the Soviet Union was not one of them.
While this is true, as far as I know, it still led to less persecution because there wasn’t a legal framework for such thing, so I guess worst case scenario it was fortunate happenstance.
Yeah good read on this but it should be said the period of time where being gay was decriminalized in the USSR did last about a decade, and in that time period LGBT+ people where actually left alone for the most part. I always read this time period of one of knowing tolerance by the upper soviet leadership, as they likely did not act on it because they actually did want lgbt issues to be decriminalized. I am making this assumption due to the slow pace they moved on this topic and that they where an educated class who could read; it was them having to contend with Stalin being a orthdox christian (he was literally born in a manger to a priests family) and 99% of Russia also being this, they had to make populist concessions in the 30s in order to recover from famines.
I traced Russias lgbt+ phobic outlook to the implementation of the Tsar; prior to this in pre-monarchy Russia it was noted by many historians and accounts that the Russian people where openly gay, lesbian and poly; it was the monarchy that implemented orthodox theocratic teachings in order to secure better trade deals with the christian west, and then beaten into them over 500 years.
I know Stalin was Christian at one point, even studying at a seminary to become a priest, but was he still Christian by the time he was general secretary?
Yeah reading more into the struggles the USSR had with the orthodox church you’re right to say that Stalin 100% ditched this outlook by the 1930s as he was calling for state athiesm in the 1930s and kept trying to purge the ‘reactionary’ orthdox church members from positions of infulence.
I am wrong to say that the direction of this was because of fears of Stalins orthodoxy, my mistake.
The key thing though to take away was, that he mostly failed; Russia was just that much orthodox. The key points where how he made concessions like recriminalizing abortion in the 1930s; not a position he likely would have wanted to do due to his ideological position, but one he had to do to maintain a cohesive country.
That doesn’t match with my readings of the history. Here is a larger article about it. I’ve also heard mention of a soviet delegation to the famous LGBT clinic in Germany. That wouldn’t indicate that it was an oversight either.
Regardless, even under Stalin, I don’t think the Soviet Union was demonstrably worse than the west in queer rights . The Soviets didn’t reimprison prisoners with pink triangles liberated from concentration camps for example.
Yes. Sorry, best source I could find in the time available. But it’s true and well documented. West Germany specifically, although other western countries weren’t great either.
That is just not true. Homosexuality was absolutely a crime.
Karl Gorath, a gay man, was first convicted under the law in 1934. He was sent to the Neuengamme concentration camp and later to Auschwitz, where he survived until its liberation by the Soviet Red Army on Jan. 27, 1945.
In 1946, more than a year after the end of the war, Gorath was prosecuted again. During a court appearance, the same judge who had convicted him during the Nazi era greeted him with the words: “You’re here again.”
Gorath was sentenced to five years in prison and later spent decades battling to undo the injustices done to him. His Nazi-era conviction was annulled shortly before his death in 2003. Post-war convictions were only annulled in 2017.
I keep seeing the argument that the USSR decriminalizing homosexuality as being a by-product of getting rid of the Tsarist legal system, and while I could very well be wrong, and that may have played a part, I don’t buy it at face value. The USSR didn’t get rid of every single Tsarist vestige for the sake of it, such as the reprisal of the Gulag system. I think decriminalizing homosexuality was a concerted effort.
I cannot wrap my head around this, comrade. Stalin being a strong military leader doesn’t necessitate his occasionally reactionary view on sexuality and gender. Of course we should all uphold Stalin’s legacy, but that doesn’t mean making excuses for him when he’s wrong.
This is fair, comrade, and an opportunity for me to purge my own internal reactionary. I think I was perhaps hasty in my writing trying to recognize the achievements of Lenin that I glossed over the failings of Stalin and the larger recognition that sometimes in times of crisis we’re more forgiving of flaws that we would hold to greater account in times of peace.
Admittedly true, but new ones have been pretty rare for a while. Maybe I should have said something along the lines of color movies not being available.
I’ve seen said (but have not investigated whatsoever so please take this with a grain of salt) that although it was criminalized it was rarely enforced because there was a duty to demonstrate the social harm of a specific action and that was rarely “met” in court or something to that effect. Is there any truth in this or is it just cope?
Did You Know?:
The first decriminalization of homosexuality in an industrialized nation occurred when Lenin legislated it in the newly formed Soviet Union. Stalin eventually rolled it back unfortunately but for a bit more than a decade you could essentially be freely homosexual in the same time period that you could watch a new black and white movie.
EDIT: Thanks to a heads-up from one of our comrades, I realized that one of my statements was unintentionally reactionary. It has since been removed and they have my thanks.
I get why people talk about this in this way, but I think it’s a mistake to ascribe intent to this when the decriminalization was a by product of doing away with the Tsarist legal code entirely. There are other instances of socialist states actively pursuing a policy in the direction of queer liberation (earlier and more comprehensive than even modern Western states), such as the GDR in the 80’s and Cuba with their new constitution, but unfortunately the Soviet Union was not one of them.
While this is true, as far as I know, it still led to less persecution because there wasn’t a legal framework for such thing, so I guess worst case scenario it was fortunate happenstance.
Yeah good read on this but it should be said the period of time where being gay was decriminalized in the USSR did last about a decade, and in that time period LGBT+ people where actually left alone for the most part. I always read this time period of one of knowing tolerance by the upper soviet leadership, as they likely did not act on it because they actually did want lgbt issues to be decriminalized. I am making this assumption due to the slow pace they moved on this topic and that they where an educated class who could read; it was them having to contend with Stalin being a orthdox christian (he was literally born in a manger to a priests family) and 99% of Russia also being this, they had to make populist concessions in the 30s in order to recover from famines.
I traced Russias lgbt+ phobic outlook to the implementation of the Tsar; prior to this in pre-monarchy Russia it was noted by many historians and accounts that the Russian people where openly gay, lesbian and poly; it was the monarchy that implemented orthodox theocratic teachings in order to secure better trade deals with the christian west, and then beaten into them over 500 years.
I know Stalin was Christian at one point, even studying at a seminary to become a priest, but was he still Christian by the time he was general secretary?
Yeah reading more into the struggles the USSR had with the orthodox church you’re right to say that Stalin 100% ditched this outlook by the 1930s as he was calling for state athiesm in the 1930s and kept trying to purge the ‘reactionary’ orthdox church members from positions of infulence.
I am wrong to say that the direction of this was because of fears of Stalins orthodoxy, my mistake.
The key thing though to take away was, that he mostly failed; Russia was just that much orthodox. The key points where how he made concessions like recriminalizing abortion in the 1930s; not a position he likely would have wanted to do due to his ideological position, but one he had to do to maintain a cohesive country.
That doesn’t match with my readings of the history. Here is a larger article about it. I’ve also heard mention of a soviet delegation to the famous LGBT clinic in Germany. That wouldn’t indicate that it was an oversight either.
Regardless, even under Stalin, I don’t think the Soviet Union was demonstrably worse than the west in queer rights . The Soviets didn’t reimprison prisoners with pink triangles liberated from concentration camps for example.
Wait, did the other Allies do this??
Yes. Sorry, best source I could find in the time available. But it’s true and well documented. West Germany specifically, although other western countries weren’t great either.
deleted by creator
That is just not true. Homosexuality was absolutely a crime.
my bad for not specifying, i meant the soviet union, anyway, i will be deleting the comment to avoid more misunderstandings
Fwiw I thought you were talking about the Soviets.
so, can you confirm if what i said is true? im not sure myself, just heard somewhere
I have heard the same as you but I haven’t really looked into it myself. I’m not sure either.
Edit: if I come across an answer elsewhere, I’ll let you know.
I keep seeing the argument that the USSR decriminalizing homosexuality as being a by-product of getting rid of the Tsarist legal system, and while I could very well be wrong, and that may have played a part, I don’t buy it at face value. The USSR didn’t get rid of every single Tsarist vestige for the sake of it, such as the reprisal of the Gulag system. I think decriminalizing homosexuality was a concerted effort.
“But dead Nazis have a cost”
I cannot wrap my head around this, comrade. Stalin being a strong military leader doesn’t necessitate his occasionally reactionary view on sexuality and gender. Of course we should all uphold Stalin’s legacy, but that doesn’t mean making excuses for him when he’s wrong.
This is fair, comrade, and an opportunity for me to purge my own internal reactionary. I think I was perhaps hasty in my writing trying to recognize the achievements of Lenin that I glossed over the failings of Stalin and the larger recognition that sometimes in times of crisis we’re more forgiving of flaws that we would hold to greater account in times of peace.
that’s every decade since the invention of black and white movies
Admittedly true, but new ones have been pretty rare for a while. Maybe I should have said something along the lines of color movies not being available.
I’ve seen said (but have not investigated whatsoever so please take this with a grain of salt) that although it was criminalized it was rarely enforced because there was a duty to demonstrate the social harm of a specific action and that was rarely “met” in court or something to that effect. Is there any truth in this or is it just cope?