Mangione "really wanted to meet my other founding members and start a community based on ideas like rationalism, Stoicism, and effective altruism" - eviltoast
    • David Gerard@awful.systemsOPM
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      8 days ago

      The whole internet loves Alleged CEO Murderer, a handsome fellow who is alleged to murder CEOs! 5 seconds later We regret to inform you the alleged CEO murderer is a rationalist.

      • Sturgist@lemmy.ca
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        8 days ago

        Effective altruisim is fine on paper, and I’m sure there’s people effectively effective altruisim, but most people who champion it are…well…Sam Bankman-Fried and friends. Wearing a mask of doing it for the unfortunate and spending everything on a beachfront mansion robbing Peter to pay Paul, with absolutely no real intention of helping the folk that “effective” altruisim is meant to help.

        I liked Luigi, and this is gonna sound a bit rough, because he shot a useless piece of shit drain on society. Effective altruisim is nice on paper, but it’s almost always used to fleece the stupid so the rich can get richer.

        • AnarchistArtificer@slrpnk.net
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          8 days ago

          I went to a university with a big Effective Altruist presence (I think I still have a ruler and a memory stick with their branding on it somewhere) and I found many of the arguments they make quite compelling until I looked into the movement more deeply and saw its repugnant core

          Many people who are drawn to Effective Altruism are aware of the state of the world, and their relative privilege, but they feel overwhelmed by how little they’re able to contribute to solving problems, relative to the size of the problems. People don’t “donate” to EA, they’re buying into a lie that helps them to feel less directly responsible for the world.

          • David Gerard@awful.systemsOPM
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            8 days ago

            oh yeah, lotta EAs really care and work their backsides off and live on beans

            it’s a pity about the ones at the top

        • skillissuer@discuss.tchncs.de
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          8 days ago

          large sections of lemmy have convinced themselves that Luigi is a leftist before learning that he’s an EA libertarian and all implications and what side effects followed cause brain damage

        • Olhonestjim@lemmy.world
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          8 days ago

          He’s young. He’s still working out his view of the world. Of course he’s gonna investigate ideas, accepting some and rejecting others. He’s not far off.

            • Olhonestjim@lemmy.world
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              8 days ago

              I’m not suggesting which ideas are right and wrong, or which he would accept or reject.

              I’m saying he’s young and seeking out ideas. Of course some will be problematic. He might reject them. He might not. Regardless, just the fact that he was curious is a point in his favor.

              I’m much older than him and this is the first time I’ve heard of “effective altruism.”

              • froztbyte@awful.systems
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                8 days ago

                I’m not suggesting which ideas are right and wrong, or which he would accept or reject

                you: thinks one is doing this with care and finesse

                nobody:

                everyone else: 🤨

                • Olhonestjim@lemmy.world
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                  7 days ago

                  I wasn’t criticizing stoicism or effective altruism because I’m not informed enough on them. I wasn’t criticizing rationalism because I’m in favor of it. But I’m willing to bet if society has managed to fuck up stoicism and altruism, we’ve probably done the same with rationalism too.

                  I wasn’t addressing which ideas or positions he was taking because I can’t see inside his head. I have no idea how he thinks, or which paths he has taken. I don’t know how he will change in the future. That would be presumptuous.

                  I do like that he is curious. That’s a good quality in a person. Not everyone is.

                  • froztbyte@awful.systems
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                    7 days ago

                    I… have to ask: are you actually aware of what the hell the context is of the things that you’re commenting about?

    • grrgyle@slrpnk.net
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      8 days ago

      If you don’t know any better, ie haven’t lived long enough, then it sounds like a logical and compelling ideology

      • skillissuer@discuss.tchncs.de
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        yeah, until they pull out their machine god they absolutely have to build, because otherwise trillions of simulated humans will be tortured forever and that’s not mathing in their sum of all happiness. also it never occurred to them that maybe billionaires shouldn’t exist and instead post things like this:

        totally not a cult btw

        • V0ldek@awful.systems
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          6 days ago

          Realistic version: pulling the lever would save five lives but that decision would cost shareholders $7.23. What should you do?

          10/10 CEOs fail this test!

        • grrgyle@slrpnk.net
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          8 days ago

          I’m with you, but someone who kills the CEO of a health insurance company does not strike me as someone who dismisses real/immediate suffering out of hand.

        • YourNetworkIsHaunted@awful.systems
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          8 days ago

          Ironically the trolley problem meme here is a great example of the objection: the same set up that puts him in the position to pull the lever also requires that people be tied to the track.

          • Soyweiser@awful.systems
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            7 days ago

            Also they could pull a lot more levers, but those other levers are not pulled. See how musk paid 6.5 times fixing world hunger for twitter.

      • Sturgist@lemmy.ca
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        8 days ago

        No, if you’re from the same socioeconomic sphere as him and haven’t lived long enough. The only people I’ve ever met or heard of that are effective altruists are “upper middle class” or properly wealthy…and younger than 50…

        • grrgyle@slrpnk.net
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          I guess because I was an idiot cringe atheist rationalist realist (you know the type) when I was his age, and thanks to an open mind and some very patient very wise people in my life, I was able to grow out of it, I give people like that the benefit of the doubt as long as they’re otherwise kind and open-minded.

          • Sturgist@lemmy.ca
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            8 days ago

            My issue isn’t with the basic ideals of effective altruisim, it’s with how it’s used by the wealthy to fleece people with the idea of helping people.
            There’s not a single thing wrong with being a starry-eyed idealist. Especially if you act, bring your beliefs and ideals into fact.