Why do people act like coffee in the morning is such a sacred routine but soda in the morning [basically the same drink] is lowbrow and unhealthy? - eviltoast

like, it’s caffeine and water and brown, who cares. i drink diet soda so it’s no calories, no sugar. versus the stereotype starbucks order, why is soda so demonized

the whole sort of basically woo stuff about oh there’s antioxidants there which give you a 3% lower risk of skin cancer after the age of 65 like come on that doesn’t count

  • Animated_beans@lemmy.world
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    67
    arrow-down
    3
    ·
    1 year ago

    Coffee is healthier than soda if you take your coffee black. Black coffee is basically just water. Soda will have either sugar or artificial sweeteners in additional to sodium and other additives that make it a less healthy option.

    Coffee with milk would still be better for you than soda, but you’ve got a good point about coffee with sweeteners essentially being just as bad as soda. Maybe the reason people treat coffee differently is because there is a healthy way to drink it and they incorrectly extrapolate that fact to any type of coffee (no, your coffee with eight sugars is not healthier than a can of Coke). Add in the fact that coffee is an acquired taste and now you’ve got one drink that only adults tend to drink (coffee) and one drink that kids love (soda) and people incorrectly assume that coffee is a more “grown up” thing to drink.

      • cabbagee@sopuli.xyz
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        13
        arrow-down
        1
        ·
        edit-2
        1 year ago

        Yes and diet soda isn’t a perfect alternative. We’re still learning about the long term effects of artificial sweeteners. It’s a headache trying to navigate the options.

        There are seltzer waters that have caffeine. I would guess those are comparable to black coffee in terms of healthiness.

        • funkless_eck@sh.itjust.works
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          4
          ·
          1 year ago

          I’m not saying you’re totally wrong to be suspicious but aspartame is the most scientifically examined substance in the history of the world, and so far its only damaging if you consume it undiluted in large quantities, which is also true for like vinegar or alcohol etc.

          it would be equally true to suggest we don’t know the long term effects of exposure to mobile phones, even though they seem perfectly safe.

          • Sethayy@sh.itjust.works
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            3
            arrow-down
            1
            ·
            1 year ago

            Sure been studied but anything with this much profits on the line is bound to be massively influenced by it, and the fact that its gotten to even possibly a carcinogen is enough of a sign to me.

            Andsalso ‘most studied’ what? Wheres that number even from

          • cabbagee@sopuli.xyz
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            1
            arrow-down
            1
            ·
            1 year ago

            Absolutely true. Aspartame is generally regarded as safe under 40mg/kg and still researching long term effects doesn’t mean it’s dangerous, just that there may be more to discover. To be fair, science is constantly evolving and new discoveries are being made every day for… well, everything. Still, if you want to find the “healthiest” way to get your daily caffeine, there are options out there with minimal additives. Black coffee, tea, seltzers, even pills.

  • Coreidan@lemmy.world
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    56
    arrow-down
    7
    ·
    1 year ago

    Because people aren’t pouring 30-40 grams of sugar into their coffee. Also artificial sweeteners taste like shit and haven’t been proven to not cause other health issues.

    Drink water.

    • CADmonkey@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      24
      ·
      1 year ago

      Because people aren’t pouring 30-40 grams of sugar into their coffee.

      I’ve seen people try. 🤢

    • squiblet@kbin.social
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      1
      ·
      1 year ago

      If you have a large coffee with oat milk (which has tons of sugar/carbs) and sugar, it’s pretty damn close to that.

    • Mindlight@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      7
      arrow-down
      35
      ·
      1 year ago

      Your reasoning is on level with religious people claiming that atheists have to prove that god doesn’t exist.

      How do you prove that you are not a murderer?

      • Sethayy@sh.itjust.works
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        20
        arrow-down
        7
        ·
        1 year ago

        Oh god dude you’d kill us so quick in the pharmaceutical industry.

        EVERYTHING is trying to kill us, were lucky when something doesn’t - so assuming a chemical we randomly made that tastes like sugar doesn’t emulate it 100% isn’t unreasonable

        (and what do you know, there even are links between aspartame in diet coke and cancer)

        • Mindlight@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          6
          arrow-down
          8
          ·
          edit-2
          1 year ago

          The statement you think is supporting your belief is actually saying the opposite. WHO specifically does not claim that aspartame cause cancer.

          However, what they did state is there was no reason to change the recommended acceptable daily intake level of 40 mg per kg of body weight per day .

          Also, The FDA disagrees with IARC’s (what you refer to as WHO) conclusion that these studies support classifying aspartame as a possible carcinogen to humans. FDA scientists reviewed the scientific information included in IARC’s review in 2021 when it was first made available and identified significant shortcomings in the studies on which IARC relied. FDA also pointed out that JECF (also WHO) did not raise safety concerns for aspartame under the current levels of use and did not change the Acceptable Daily Intake (ADI).

          So yeah… Just believing journalists trying to click bait you is probably more likely to give you cancer than following the recommendation from WHO regarding daily intake of aspartame.

          • Sethayy@sh.itjust.works
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            5
            arrow-down
            1
            ·
            1 year ago

            I didn’t mention any regulatory bodies specifically, cause health should be generally referenced from as many sources as possible - but all those numbers are based on theoretical doses on rats, your coefficient of safety is gonna be that close to the theoretical??

            Especially when there’s probably billions in companies like coke and Pepsi on the line, yet were still trending in the direction of stricter classification - you’re gonna risk your entire health on there being no bias???

            • Mindlight@lemmy.world
              link
              fedilink
              arrow-up
              3
              arrow-down
              2
              ·
              1 year ago

              You use a (heavily questioned) statement of an organization as a base for your claims when the organization explicitly doesn’t support your conclusion. It’s a fact that WHO still claims there is no dangers consuming the recommended daily amount.

              The method used on rats to estimate the dangers is the method used when estimating dangers every other substances. So the argument is valid as long as you claim that every other substance cause cancer.

              Then you end up nibbling on edges of the classic “the great aspartame conspiracy” but what you totally miss that “big sugar” is even more powerfull…

              • Sethayy@sh.itjust.works
                link
                fedilink
                arrow-up
                1
                ·
                1 year ago

                Nah I was lying to sound smart they almost for sure do human trials, but you’re totally lying too is the funniest part

          • Coreidan@lemmy.world
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            4
            arrow-down
            3
            ·
            1 year ago

            You’re the type of person who thinks plastics are perfectly safe because they are BPA free.

            Everything is safe until it’s not.

            I remember when doctors used to recommend smoking. I remember when doctors used to prescribe opiates for minor issues.

            Basically, your logic sucks and I have zero reason to listen to you.

            • Mindlight@lemmy.world
              link
              fedilink
              arrow-up
              2
              arrow-down
              2
              ·
              edit-2
              1 year ago

              I just love how you end with “I have zero reason to listen to you” when no one has claimed such a thing and you were the one choosing to do the listening.

              All of this because of me pointing out that WHO still claims that there is a daily amount of aspartame that is safe to consume and that the only thing you can prove is that something is unsafe and not the other way around.

              By the way… If you think we should avoid aspartame because there is a suspicion that it might cause cancer I can imagine what you think about sugar, animal fat and protein which there is actual proof that it can cause everything from heart disease to cancer.

  • amio@kbin.social
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    51
    arrow-down
    2
    ·
    1 year ago

    Basically the same drink? How?

    Cup of black coffee and a cup of cola look similar, I guess…

  • WoodenBleachers@lemmy.basedcount.com
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    54
    arrow-down
    7
    ·
    edit-2
    1 year ago

    Sodas have high fructose corn syrup which is a type of sugar. One soda contains 18 packets of sugar [1]. This is far more than coffee for the average person. Now if you consider diet sodas those use aspertame as a sweetener and so it’s basically sweet’n’low packets. So on a pure sugar content perspective coffee is healthier.

    Soda has been known to eat away teeth [2]. While coffee does so as well, it’s to a lesser degree[3]. So long-term physically, coffee is better.

    If you consider nutritional benefits and ignore the antioxidants like you said, coffee is still mostly water and therefore can count to your water intake [4]. Soda is also water as you might imagine, it being a drink, but again, to a lesser degree.

    That said, if you drink diet soda in the morning you do you. You shouldn’t feel judged for wanting to eat something in moderation. But know that coffee has proven health benefits and soda has proven health detriments. These things apply to sodas at whatever time of day.

    • BenadrylChunderHatch@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      8
      arrow-down
      1
      ·
      1 year ago

      A cup of coffee also has about 2g of fibre, which is actually quite a lot in the context of the average American diet of highly processed food. IIRC the average American only eats about 15g of fibre per day - which is fucking terrible BTW.

      • dakku@sh.itjust.works
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        3
        arrow-down
        1
        ·
        1 year ago

        We don’t. It’s been studied for decades and all they could come up with was that “in massive quantities it’s possible it might cause cancer”. Which is shit. Everything in massive quantities breaks something.

        • Lazylazycat@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          4
          arrow-down
          4
          ·
          1 year ago

          It’s not recommended to intake more than 40mg per day per kilo of body weight. For a kid that could be two cans of coke.

          I hope no one is giving their kid two cans of coke in a day, but I bet you a thousand pounds that they are.

          • Sethayy@sh.itjust.works
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            2
            arrow-down
            1
            ·
            1 year ago

            So… you should like… avoid obvious signs of it? We have little wiggle room? wdym by this dog there’s defiantly an area between cancer riddled and 100% healthy

        • kryptonicus@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          1
          ·
          1 year ago

          That WHO study is highly problematic. It has some fairly serious methodological flaws. It’s been disputed by the FDA. It is biased due to the panel comprising:

          eight WHO panelists involved with assessing safe levels of aspartame consumption who are beverage industry consultants who currently or previously worked with the alleged Coke front group, International Life Sciences Institute (Ilsi).

          Source

      • Jummit@lemmy.one
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        4
        arrow-down
        1
        ·
        edit-2
        1 year ago

        In this context I guess non-natural chemicals? Maybe the artificial sweeteners.

        • redballooon@lemm.ee
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          4
          ·
          edit-2
          1 year ago

          In this context may also be relevant discussions among coffee enthusiasts who talk about this and that chemical process during the brewing process, lending it a bitter or rich taste – the coffee is full of chemicals.

          I’m allergic to the word “chemicals” in discussions such as this, because it is too vague to define anything specific. It generally is used as a degradation of a thing that the speaker doesn’t like. But that’s all there is to it. The speaker can just as well say “I’m suspicious of this thing that you hold there”, and this communicates exactly the same thing, maybe with a bit more care about ones words.

          • TonyTonyChopper@mander.xyz
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            3
            arrow-down
            1
            ·
            1 year ago

            The distinction between natural and artificial is just as arbitrary. All the “plant derived” non-sugar sweeteners taste super weird to me and some give me a headache

    • everett@lemmy.ml
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      10
      arrow-down
      4
      ·
      1 year ago

      I downvoted because this doesn’t feel like a casual conversation, more like trying to start an argument.

    • _number8_@lemmy.worldOP
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      1
      arrow-down
      9
      ·
      1 year ago

      they’re really proving my point. just this pure implicit bias for the stodgy adult drink that is functionally the same as soda - it’s liquid with caffeine

      • GONADS125@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        5
        arrow-down
        1
        ·
        1 year ago

        You probably should’ve asked this in !NoStupidQuestions…

        The two beverages are not the same. Coffee can be served with or without milk/cream and sugar, but even with sugar, it has far less than is in soda. It also has a significantly higher quantity of caffeine.

        People aren’t downvoting you because you drink soda; it’s because you asked a dumb question with a ridiculous and blatantly incorrect take. Just drink soda and don’t worry about what other people think. There’s not some mass of people judging you. No one cares if you drink soda in the morning…

        But it’s just preposterous to be claiming they’re the same beverage or that soda is as effective as coffee at waking people up. How about milk and soda? Are they the same beverage? What about root beer and beer? Your argument is just blatantly false and silly. That’s why you’re being downvoted.

        • _number8_@lemmy.worldOP
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          3
          arrow-down
          2
          ·
          1 year ago

          i was under the impression that ‘casual conversation’ meant ‘not necessarily being chastized for asking a lighthearted question without literally citing sources like i’m writing a thesis’

          • Jarix@lemmy.world
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            2
            arrow-down
            1
            ·
            1 year ago

            You made an absolutely absurd claim. It didn’t seem like it to you, whixh is obvious now, but that was not a lighthearted comment more like it was a slap in the face.

            At least, all the people responding seem to have taken it as a challenge

  • the_q@lemmy.world
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    19
    ·
    edit-2
    1 year ago

    20oz of Coke contains like 15 tablespoons of sugar. Sweet coffee is healthier.

    Edit: it’s teaspoons not tablespoons. I am wrong.

    • TonyTonyChopper@mander.xyz
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      3
      arrow-down
      1
      ·
      edit-2
      1 year ago

      591.471 mL of Coke contains like 187.5 g of sugar. Sweet coffee is healthier.

      [I am not a bot, and this action was not performed automatically.]

      Actually I looked it up, a 20 US fluid ounce Cola has 14-18 [teaspoons] of sugar, 65 grams in normal units (for Coca Cola). So you completely botched it.

  • morphballganon@lemmy.world
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    16
    arrow-down
    1
    ·
    edit-2
    1 year ago
    1. I am usually cold in the morning, and thus prefer a hot drink.
    2. Soda is carbonated, and too much carbonation can cause esophageal issues (I have actually had this from too many carbonated drinks, it’s not just a fabricated boogeyman).
    3. Coffee with a modest amount of creamer (I do half a shot of coffeemate vanilla bean) is definitely healthier than soda, whether regular, diet, zero etc.

    All that said, I will have a soda instead if we run out of either coffee or creamer. Vanilla Coke zero sugar is my go-to in that instance.

    • cubedsteaks@lemmy.today
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      1
      ·
      1 year ago

      I am usually cold in the morning, and thus prefer a hot drink

      See, I only drink coffee in the morning during the fall/winter. I can’t do it during the hot parts of the year.

  • bouh@lemmy.world
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    12
    arrow-down
    1
    ·
    1 year ago

    They’re both completely wrong. Hot chocolate is the sacred beverage of the morning, the holy breakfast.

  • GunnarRunnar@kbin.social
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    9
    ·
    1 year ago

    Maybe a bit of context would be in order because I don’t know anyone who would even blink if you started your day at work with soda.

    Though I think if you started your average morning with drinking a soda first thing would be a bit weird. But it’s the same kind of weird that having hamburger meal or a full roast as breakfast is. It’s just not customary.

  • cabbagee@sopuli.xyz
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    10
    arrow-down
    1
    ·
    1 year ago

    Black coffee and tea are considered the healthiest options because no sugar, no sugar substitutes, no preservatives or other additives, and they’ve been used long enough that the health implications are well researched.

    Diet sodas have ingredients that are considered safe in moderation by the FDA, but we are still learning about the long term effects of artificial sugars and different additives. There are caffeinated seltzers out there with just natural flavoring and caffeine. That would probably be a better comparison to black coffee and tea.