Please don’t go Baku. This has the potential to get out of control. I think the organisers have seriously misread Australia’s reputation as being laid back anti-protest people for the most part. Granted that the post-Port Arthur buyback means that nearly all the gun-toting people here are licensed, identifiable and mostly live up the country, but there’s a huge groundswell of people who really really REALLY don’t like guns and gun culture.
Never underestimate the destructive power of the so-called non-violent people. They usually don’t have many stop triggers - have you read Konrad Lorenz’s research back before WWII about what happened when he confined two nice gentle pigeons in a cage? Its brutal.
Lorenz was making the point that wolves and other social ‘aggressive’ species have stop triggers for aggression - if two individuals are in conflict they have ways of defusing violence and avoiding personal harm.
The pigeons do not - their usual species specific reaction to aggression is to fly away, so when confined in the cage one pecks the other to death and keeps on pecking until the dead pigeon is a bloody splat on the cage floor. Because the pigeons don’t have any practiced or instinctual way to stop being violent. So the violence continues long past any possible definition of ‘winning’.
Lorenz’s work and books have been questioned a lot since he did it, but in this specific area, I think he was dead on the money. My gut instinct for this event to avoid it at all costs. Protests are not a spectator sport.
Yep. Fully understand. I did protest publicly during the Franklin campaign way back when, but some of what I saw then chilled me too. And I’m fairly OK with my own personal triggers - I know when I have to back off and keep my cool. I fear those people who get whipped up into a frenzy and lose what little brains they once possessed. Because then there are NO limits to what they will do.
I should clarify that I’m not going to join the protest, I’m not really a protester and I definitely envisage police violence (whether or not “justified”), and I don’t want to end up with 10 broken ribs, but what do guns have to do with anything? Are the gun nuts coming to counter protest or something? Also, you can group me in with the people who despise guns and gun culture.
Also, I don’t really agree with your assessment that non-violent people do not have many “stop triggers”. I don’t think violence will come from the vast majority of people. There’s always a few idiots, but in my experience, peaceful protests usually turn violent only after people from both sides heighten each other up, until it turns physical. Then that causes a Domino effect where other people see unjustified violence and try to jump in to defend their people. But it’s certainly not the majority of people. I don’t see it as much different from other large gatherings or events.
I probably won’t go, because I’ve been super tired recently, am not feeling well and somebody will probably Livestream it on YouTube anyways. But truthfully your comment doesn’t make me want to go less, it makes me want to go and observe a lot more.
Please don’t go Baku. This has the potential to get out of control. I think the organisers have seriously misread Australia’s reputation as being laid back anti-protest people for the most part. Granted that the post-Port Arthur buyback means that nearly all the gun-toting people here are licensed, identifiable and mostly live up the country, but there’s a huge groundswell of people who really really REALLY don’t like guns and gun culture.
Never underestimate the destructive power of the so-called non-violent people. They usually don’t have many stop triggers - have you read Konrad Lorenz’s research back before WWII about what happened when he confined two nice gentle pigeons in a cage? Its brutal.
Lorenz was making the point that wolves and other social ‘aggressive’ species have stop triggers for aggression - if two individuals are in conflict they have ways of defusing violence and avoiding personal harm.
The pigeons do not - their usual species specific reaction to aggression is to fly away, so when confined in the cage one pecks the other to death and keeps on pecking until the dead pigeon is a bloody splat on the cage floor. Because the pigeons don’t have any practiced or instinctual way to stop being violent. So the violence continues long past any possible definition of ‘winning’.
Lorenz’s work and books have been questioned a lot since he did it, but in this specific area, I think he was dead on the money. My gut instinct for this event to avoid it at all costs. Protests are not a spectator sport.
I accidently walked thru a protest last year.
A bloke near me yelled out “Kill Them”. And I believe he meant it. I was chilled and got out of there as fast as I could.
I’m glad I don’t work near protest sites. Most of them seem unruly and even worse if two opposing sides clash.
I can really see that happening tomorrow when the pro gun people turn up.
Yep. Fully understand. I did protest publicly during the Franklin campaign way back when, but some of what I saw then chilled me too. And I’m fairly OK with my own personal triggers - I know when I have to back off and keep my cool. I fear those people who get whipped up into a frenzy and lose what little brains they once possessed. Because then there are NO limits to what they will do.
I should clarify that I’m not going to join the protest, I’m not really a protester and I definitely envisage police violence (whether or not “justified”), and I don’t want to end up with 10 broken ribs, but what do guns have to do with anything? Are the gun nuts coming to counter protest or something? Also, you can group me in with the people who despise guns and gun culture.
Also, I don’t really agree with your assessment that non-violent people do not have many “stop triggers”. I don’t think violence will come from the vast majority of people. There’s always a few idiots, but in my experience, peaceful protests usually turn violent only after people from both sides heighten each other up, until it turns physical. Then that causes a Domino effect where other people see unjustified violence and try to jump in to defend their people. But it’s certainly not the majority of people. I don’t see it as much different from other large gatherings or events.
I probably won’t go, because I’ve been super tired recently, am not feeling well and somebody will probably Livestream it on YouTube anyways. But truthfully your comment doesn’t make me want to go less, it makes me want to go and observe a lot more.
Nothing wrong with observing from a safe place. Disagree about the majority of people, though. I think we all have the potential.