Lol you’re the one virtue signaling and trying this into something it’s not. I’m giving you actual data backed points about a measurable problem and pointing out how you’re making it worse.
I wrote multiple times that the perpetrators here should have the book thrown at them. Existing hate crime laws are sufficient for that.
And I very explicitly wrote mutliple times, that you’re master plan is idiotic because it doesn’t actually address the root cause of the problem. Clearly, the current hate crime laws don’t mean shit when these types of incidents are happening and in increasing frequency, not to mention the criminals got away because the cops didn’t do shit.
And to cut to the chase, all your long tirade amounts to what exactly? Practically, in practice, in terms of actual policies that you want to see enacted, what are actually you advocating for, what do you want done?
Brief list of common sense policies:
Ban all foreign funding to religious institutions within the country
Deport any non citizen residing in the country immediately if they committed a serious crime
Increase integration and assimilation programs for migrants
Change the national narrative about diversity from a mosaic to something more successful like a melting pot
Make it policy for the local police department to explicitly stand in solidarity of the victims in publicly circulated cases like this
Require secularism and liberal values to be taught at all religious views
Ban gender segregation at all educational institutions
Explicitly iterate that blasphemy and criticism of islam and other religions is NOT a hate crime, but a fundamental part of free speech
Establish a system to make it easier for children and women to more easily report domestic violence and abuse at home and quickly receive help, and add support in languages where islam and other radical religions are more prominent
Establish a quickly accessible and reliable system to tip authorities about extremism that may lead to violence
Literally any of this beats your master plan of doing nothing to address the issue at a societal level and putting your head in the sand.
Because we can argue about whether 1 billion Muslims, 2 million of them in Canada are bad people or not until next spring, but ultimately it comes down to good or bad policy. Say your piece.
If this all your two brain cells managed to get out of what I said then I think I can understand why you’re position is the way it is, and I have no interest in wasting my time any further.
First of all, take your disrespectful and insulting little soundbites and shove them up your ass.
This response is a courtesy, and I’m going to focus solely on your policy suggestions. Further smarminess and disrespect are going to be left unanswered.
So:
Ban all foreign funding to religious institutions within the country
We already have a robust framework. See for example bill C51 of 2015. There is no evidence that people are being radicalized by imported preachers. In fact we have been exporters of Christian fundies and other crazies to the US for a while.
Deport any non citizen residing in the country immediately if they committed a serious crime
This is already explicitly the case, even for permanent residents.
Increase integration and assimilation programs for migrants
We don’t do assimilation in this country, this is Canada. Our multiculturalism is constitutionally a key national value and a distinguishing element of our national identity. Multiculturalism is who we are.
For integration there are multiple programs such as the the CIIP, and Canada’s sponsorship program allows refugees to be immediately integrated into a specific community. It has been wildly successful. The actual problem we have is with french lessons in Quebec that are a bit overwhelmed. So yea, increasing funding for programs for immigrants, sure, I’m with you there.
Change the national narrative about diversity from a mosaic to something more successful like a melting pot
Not gonna happen. And this is not some “narrative”. Multiculturalism like I told you is a foundational element of our identity. It’s so important it’s in our Charter of Freedoms (equivalent to the US Bill of Rights", see section 27:
“This Charter shall be interpreted in a manner consistent with the preservation and enhancement of the multicultural heritage of Canadians.” In this country, multiculturalism is literally in our definition of what it means to be free. No party will touch this.
Make it policy for the local police department to explicitly stand in solidarity of the victims in publicly circulated cases like this
You can’t have a public policy that is about “publicly circulated cases”. The law is the law. And the duties of police to protect fall squarely within their existing legal framework. But the problem more often than not is that violations to people’s freedoms come from the police, not despite the police.
Require secularism and liberal values to be taught at all religious views
This is the closest you are getting to Canadian reality. Private religious schools need to follow the provincial curriculum as defined in each province. There has been in fact push back eg in Ontario about forcing them to teach sex ed. Quebec has similar requirements. The private schools don’t like it, but they have to do it regardless. Public funding for private religious schools is definitely something many Canadians would like to see chopped.
Ban gender segregation at all educational institutions
That’s not a thing around here.
Explicitly iterate that blasphemy and criticism of islam and other religions is NOT a hate crime, but a fundamental part of free speech
Our last blasphemy law was repealed a few years ago. I don’t know what public policy would red “explicitly iterate” our Charter freedoms.
Establish a system to make it easier for children and women to more easily report domestic violence and abuse at home and quickly receive help, and add support in languages where islam and other radical religions are more prominent
Multiple systems for helping victims of domestic abuse exist. Canadian multiculturalism here means exactly that multilingual and culturally sensitive approaches are prioritized. But more funding for victims of abuse? Sure!
Establish a quickly accessible and reliable system to tip authorities about extremism that may lead to violence
The cons pitched a “barbaric practices” hotline a few years back that was a right joke. They are still being ridiculed for it and are trying to distance themselves for it.
Other than that, Canada does have a robust security and intelligence establishment thank you very much.
First of all, take your disrespectful and insulting little soundbites and shove them up your ass.
Follow your own advice
This response is a courtesy, and I’m going to focus solely on your policy suggestions. Further smarminess and disrespect are going to be left unanswered.
I literally don’t care.
We already have a robust framework. See for example bill C51 of 2015. There is no evidence that people are being radicalized by imported preachers. In fact we have been exporters of Christian fundies and other crazies to the US for a while.
The bill you cited doesn’t ban foreign funding to religious institutions within the country. I didn’t say anything about foreign preachers, I specifically said foreign funding to religious institutions within the country… which is what you quoted. These are two different things.
This is already explicitly the case, even for permanent residents.
Doesn’t mean anything if it’s not enforced. Case in point:
We don’t do assimilation in this country, this is Canada. Our multiculturalism is constitutionally a key national value and a distinguishing element of our national identity. Multiculturalism is who we are.
Cringe. Also, assimilation and multiculturalism don’t contradict each other. In fact you can’t have multiculturalism without a degree of assimilation. A country that exists as nothing more than collection of ethnic and cultural enclaves that don’t even bother to uphold a common identity, is not a country. You need an overarching culture and identity that all these groups assimilate to have a sense of social cohesion.
So yea, increasing funding for programs for immigrants, sure, I’m with you there.
At least we agree on something.
In this country, multiculturalism is literally in our definition of what it means to be free. No party will touch this.
Multiculturalism is just the idea that a bunch of cultures can coexist together in the same country. Both the melting pot and the mosaic are different implementations of multiculturalism. The only difference is that the melting pot as a concept encourages different cultures to interact and mix to create something more unified while the mosaic encourages cultural segregation and isolation. One is clearly better than the other.
You can’t have a public policy that is about “publicly circulated cases”. The law is the law. And the duties of police to protect fall squarely within their existing legal framework.
That’s fair, the police should always stand in support of the victims until the due process is carried out and the justice system does it’s thing regardless of how public the case is. The criminals and the victims should not receive similar treatment from cops, as I have very extensively explained and evidenced with the Rotherham case in the UK which you have conveniently ignored because you can’t come up with a rebuttal for it.
But the problem more often than not is that violations to people’s freedoms come from the police, not despite the police.
That’s a separate issue. Just because such an issue exist, that doesn’t invalidate or delegitimize this issue.
This is the closest you are getting to Canadian reality. Private religious schools need to follow the provincial curriculum as defined in each province. There has been in fact push back eg in Ontario about forcing them to teach sex ed. Quebec has similar requirements. The private schools don’t like it, but they have to do it regardless. Public funding for private religious schools is definitely something many Canadians would like to see chopped.
I would take it a step further, on top of making them follow the provincial curriculums, I would hold the schools with repeated violations accountable by suspending their licenses to teach.
That’s not a thing around here.
Sex segregation is a very big part of islam. It’s more common than you think.
https://mua.ca/about-us/ (this is an actual school in Canada that openly advertises gender segregation)
This is unfortunately way more common than you think.
Our last blasphemy law was repealed a few years ago. I don’t know what public policy would red “explicitly iterate” our Charter freedoms.
It’s more of upholding current principles and policies rather than adding new ones. It’s becoming increasingly more common for things like defacing the quran, drawing pictures of mohammad, criticizing islamic scriptures, calling out islamic traditions like how mohammad raped a 9 year old girl, or calling certain aspects of islamic culture like gender segregation and homophobia are being labeled as islamophobic or hate crimes and are being shut down. There’s obviously some people who do some actions that does cross the line and become hate crimes, but the things that I listed are not those things.
But more funding for victims of abuse? Sure!
Yippie, we agree on two things in a list of things that should be common sense.
The cons pitched a “barbaric practices” hotline a few years back that was a right joke. They are still being ridiculed for it and are trying to distance themselves for it.
Yeah… no, I’m thinking something more along the line of the FBI tips system where anyone can easily find and file report about potentially dangerous individuals or groups to the FBI so they can at least investigate it. As far as I’m aware Canada does not have anything that’s similar to that.
Other than that, Canada does have a robust security and intelligence establishment thank you very much.
Clearly there’s a lot of room for improvement considering how this incident just happaned.
Lol you’re the one virtue signaling and trying this into something it’s not. I’m giving you actual data backed points about a measurable problem and pointing out how you’re making it worse.
And I very explicitly wrote mutliple times, that you’re master plan is idiotic because it doesn’t actually address the root cause of the problem. Clearly, the current hate crime laws don’t mean shit when these types of incidents are happening and in increasing frequency, not to mention the criminals got away because the cops didn’t do shit.
Brief list of common sense policies:
Literally any of this beats your master plan of doing nothing to address the issue at a societal level and putting your head in the sand.
If this all your two brain cells managed to get out of what I said then I think I can understand why you’re position is the way it is, and I have no interest in wasting my time any further.
First of all, take your disrespectful and insulting little soundbites and shove them up your ass.
This response is a courtesy, and I’m going to focus solely on your policy suggestions. Further smarminess and disrespect are going to be left unanswered.
So:
We already have a robust framework. See for example bill C51 of 2015. There is no evidence that people are being radicalized by imported preachers. In fact we have been exporters of Christian fundies and other crazies to the US for a while.
This is already explicitly the case, even for permanent residents.
We don’t do assimilation in this country, this is Canada. Our multiculturalism is constitutionally a key national value and a distinguishing element of our national identity. Multiculturalism is who we are.
For integration there are multiple programs such as the the CIIP, and Canada’s sponsorship program allows refugees to be immediately integrated into a specific community. It has been wildly successful. The actual problem we have is with french lessons in Quebec that are a bit overwhelmed. So yea, increasing funding for programs for immigrants, sure, I’m with you there.
Not gonna happen. And this is not some “narrative”. Multiculturalism like I told you is a foundational element of our identity. It’s so important it’s in our Charter of Freedoms (equivalent to the US Bill of Rights", see section 27: “This Charter shall be interpreted in a manner consistent with the preservation and enhancement of the multicultural heritage of Canadians.” In this country, multiculturalism is literally in our definition of what it means to be free. No party will touch this.
You can’t have a public policy that is about “publicly circulated cases”. The law is the law. And the duties of police to protect fall squarely within their existing legal framework. But the problem more often than not is that violations to people’s freedoms come from the police, not despite the police.
This is the closest you are getting to Canadian reality. Private religious schools need to follow the provincial curriculum as defined in each province. There has been in fact push back eg in Ontario about forcing them to teach sex ed. Quebec has similar requirements. The private schools don’t like it, but they have to do it regardless. Public funding for private religious schools is definitely something many Canadians would like to see chopped.
That’s not a thing around here.
Our last blasphemy law was repealed a few years ago. I don’t know what public policy would red “explicitly iterate” our Charter freedoms.
Multiple systems for helping victims of domestic abuse exist. Canadian multiculturalism here means exactly that multilingual and culturally sensitive approaches are prioritized. But more funding for victims of abuse? Sure!
The cons pitched a “barbaric practices” hotline a few years back that was a right joke. They are still being ridiculed for it and are trying to distance themselves for it.
Other than that, Canada does have a robust security and intelligence establishment thank you very much.
Follow your own advice
I literally don’t care.
The bill you cited doesn’t ban foreign funding to religious institutions within the country. I didn’t say anything about foreign preachers, I specifically said foreign funding to religious institutions within the country… which is what you quoted. These are two different things.
Doesn’t mean anything if it’s not enforced. Case in point:
https://www.theglobeandmail.com/politics/article-most-immigrants-with-deportation-letters-are-still-in-canada-cbsa/
Cringe. Also, assimilation and multiculturalism don’t contradict each other. In fact you can’t have multiculturalism without a degree of assimilation. A country that exists as nothing more than collection of ethnic and cultural enclaves that don’t even bother to uphold a common identity, is not a country. You need an overarching culture and identity that all these groups assimilate to have a sense of social cohesion.
At least we agree on something.
Multiculturalism is just the idea that a bunch of cultures can coexist together in the same country. Both the melting pot and the mosaic are different implementations of multiculturalism. The only difference is that the melting pot as a concept encourages different cultures to interact and mix to create something more unified while the mosaic encourages cultural segregation and isolation. One is clearly better than the other.
That’s fair, the police should always stand in support of the victims until the due process is carried out and the justice system does it’s thing regardless of how public the case is. The criminals and the victims should not receive similar treatment from cops, as I have very extensively explained and evidenced with the Rotherham case in the UK which you have conveniently ignored because you can’t come up with a rebuttal for it.
That’s a separate issue. Just because such an issue exist, that doesn’t invalidate or delegitimize this issue.
I would take it a step further, on top of making them follow the provincial curriculums, I would hold the schools with repeated violations accountable by suspending their licenses to teach.
Sex segregation is a very big part of islam. It’s more common than you think.
https://mua.ca/about-us/ (this is an actual school in Canada that openly advertises gender segregation)
https://nationalpost.com/full-comment/tasha-kheiriddin-religion-has-no-place-in-public-school-and-neither-does-sexism
https://csrs.nd.edu/evaluations/canadian-islamic-schools-unraveling-the-politics-of-faith-gender-knowledge-and-identity/
https://www.insidehighered.com/news/2014/01/31/clashes-over-religiously-motivated-gender-segregation-canadian-british-campuses
This is unfortunately way more common than you think.
It’s more of upholding current principles and policies rather than adding new ones. It’s becoming increasingly more common for things like defacing the quran, drawing pictures of mohammad, criticizing islamic scriptures, calling out islamic traditions like how mohammad raped a 9 year old girl, or calling certain aspects of islamic culture like gender segregation and homophobia are being labeled as islamophobic or hate crimes and are being shut down. There’s obviously some people who do some actions that does cross the line and become hate crimes, but the things that I listed are not those things.
Yippie, we agree on two things in a list of things that should be common sense.
Yeah… no, I’m thinking something more along the line of the FBI tips system where anyone can easily find and file report about potentially dangerous individuals or groups to the FBI so they can at least investigate it. As far as I’m aware Canada does not have anything that’s similar to that.
Clearly there’s a lot of room for improvement considering how this incident just happaned.