Steve with GN Considering Linux - eviltoast

@26:07 he says as a business he’s considering Linux on his computers because of Windows privacy violations. It’s great to hear someone with such a wide audience talking about using Linux.

  • cerement@slrpnk.net
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    148
    arrow-down
    8
    ·
    5 months ago

    additionally, we can trust him to approach it seriously whereas LTT still treats Linux like an in-joke

    • Sentau@discuss.tchncs.de
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      113
      arrow-down
      2
      ·
      edit-2
      5 months ago

      LTT still treats Linux like an in-joke.

      Well the only one who seemed to actually like Linux at LTT was Anthony(don’t know her new name) Emily. Once she went to the background after her gender transition, enthusiastic Linux coverage more or less disappeared

      • atmur@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        90
        arrow-down
        2
        ·
        5 months ago

        Linus mentioned that Emily (her new name) has been internally pushing for a Linux gaming revisit on a recent Wan Show, so hopefully something comes of that.

        Also an upcoming tech upgrade video will be for someone who’s switching to Linux.

        • bighatchester@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          28
          arrow-down
          1
          ·
          5 months ago

          Hopefully the next Linux challenge goes well for them . From what I remember Linus somehow broke his fresh Linux install by just install steam lol . Can’t wait to see Elijah switch to Linux

          • A_Random_Idiot@lemmy.world
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            20
            arrow-down
            2
            ·
            edit-2
            5 months ago

            I dont remember the specific details, but it was a bug in that install version that… Mint Pop_OS! (Thanks Joo)? I think it was? was slow to fix until the video came out or something?

            Anyway, long story short, He did ignore a warning, but what happened shouldnt have happened regardless, and it was totally something a novice could do, especially since, as a novice myself, most internet searchable help for linux issues boils down to “run this command, it’ll fix it” with no real broader explanation.

            That doesnt mean he isnt an ignorant cunt in a thousand other ways though.

            • joojmachine@lemmy.ml
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              20
              ·
              5 months ago

              Long story short, there was a bug with apt that Pop!_OS didn’t patch before the release. They did so after the latest version at the time was released. Had he updated his system before trying to install Steam, it’d never happened, that’s the worst part.

              • A_Random_Idiot@lemmy.world
                link
                fedilink
                English
                arrow-up
                13
                arrow-down
                1
                ·
                5 months ago

                Should have updated the install materials or just automatically force an update upon install. Competency should never be expected from the end user.

                • Captain Aggravated@sh.itjust.works
                  link
                  fedilink
                  English
                  arrow-up
                  6
                  ·
                  5 months ago

                  I would agree. If you watch the video, you’ll see that Linux Mint’s onboarding process walked Luke through using the Update Manager. Pop!_OS didn’t. Also apparently Pop!_Shop doesn’t or didn’t perform an apt update upon launch for reasons beyond my understanding. Anyone familiar enough with Pop!_OS to know if that was or still is the case?

            • ozymandias117@lemmy.world
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              9
              arrow-down
              2
              ·
              5 months ago

              The funny part, to me, is that the command he ran was so dangerous that Pop_OS required you to type out the entire phrase

              “Yes, do as I say!”

              With correct punctuation, or it won’t continue

              If it was just an “Okay” box or a “Y” to continue, I don’t think he’d have gotten as much flak for that one

          • Captain Aggravated@sh.itjust.works
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            17
            ·
            5 months ago

            I’ve done a whole NTSB breakdown on that incident before, but here’s what I hope is the short version:

            He was using Pop!_OS. Pop!_OS’ desktop environment was at the time kind of a fork of Gnome. I think now it outright is a fork of Gnome.

            It just so happened that a version of the Steam .deb package went out with a buggy set of prerequisite data such that if it encountered a “weird” desktop environment it would declare itself incompatible with this which would make APT uninstall the entire GUI stack, right on down to Xorg. It wouldn’t happen to distros using more mainstream desktops like Gnome or KDE or xfce, but it did effect weird things like Pop!_OS.

            This bugged version was apparently the latest version published when the Pop!_OS install image Linus used was made, so that was the version in the apt cache on Linus’ Pop!_OS machine.

            In the time between the creation of that install media and the filming of the episode, the bug had been reported and an updated version pushed to the repo.

            At no point during the install-first boot process, or while launching the Pop!_Shop did Pop!_OS update the apt cache.

            Linus tried to install Steam via the Pop!_Shop’s GUI. behind the scenes it saw the error about incompatibility with the desktop and threw a dialog box that said “Failed to install Steam.” The system was not harmed or altered in any way and continued working correctly.

            Instead of googling “popos failed to install steam” to see if there’s a way to fix it, he instead threw a small bitch fit about how Linux doesn’t work and you have to use the terminal for everything. He googled for “how to install steam with the terminal” or similar, and found the command “sudo apt install steam.” Most guides online for installing things using APT tell you to run an update and probably an upgrade command first, I do not know if Linus found instructions that omitted that or if he skimmed too aggressively.

            Running the command “sudo apt install steam” printed a lot of STDIO to the terminal including a large list of things it was preparing to uninstall, followed by a plaintext warning in bold text that read (paraphrasing) **WARNING! This operation is very likely to seriously damage your computer. You should not do this unless you REALLY know what you are doing. To continue, type “Yes do as I say.”

            It is my belief that Windows trained Linus to ignore such warnings, because Windows constantly throws errors about “this may harm your computer” basically every time it asks for administrator privileges. Linux does not do this; Linux usually accepts a ‘y’ or even just hitting the enter key with no input to mean “yes proceed,” sometimes when it wants you to really stop and think it’ll make you type the whole word “yes.” Having to type that whole sentence feels almost like “update your last will and testament to continue.” I think a lot of users learned it would do that from Linus’ video.

            He did so, the computer dutifully uninstalled the entire GUI stack and dropped him into a terminal.

            • ozymandias117@lemmy.world
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              13
              arrow-down
              1
              ·
              edit-2
              5 months ago

              I mentioned above, but it definitely tried to make absolutely sure by requiring the exact string

              “Yes, do as I say!”

              With punctuation and capitalization required.

              They’ve even tried to add more protections after the video to make sure that’s what you meant to do

            • drathvedro@lemm.ee
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              5
              ·
              5 months ago

              A think to note is that it was completely salvageable. I believe it’d be just a matter of running sudo apt-get install pop-desktop and he’d be back on track. Meanwhile, on windows, download a sound card driver from manufacturers site, click “install”, and your OS won’t ever boot again, not in safe mode, not in recovery from live usb, not anyhow, because it always tries to load all drivers, including broken ones for some reason.

        • cpw@lemmy.ca
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          22
          arrow-down
          8
          ·
          5 months ago

          I honestly hope they don’t do another dumb Linux challenge. Linus and Luke both have pre-prepared excuses why a conversion to Linux will fail, for them personally. Stuff like “we can’t run Photoshop” level shit. Dumb “no shit Sherlock” type nonsense.

          That means they won’t actually try, they’ll just “do it for the content” and give up again after a month or whatever. The videos will be well done but will ultimately conclude that “Linux still isn’t ready for us” and they’ll leave a bitter taste in any real Linux user’s mouth, because their excuses will be pathetic and the efforts put in will be demonstrably minimal.

          • Captain Aggravated@sh.itjust.works
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            15
            ·
            5 months ago

            I’ve said this several times before.

            There were a couple episodes where they had iJustine on as a guest. I think they built a server for her? Anyway one episode they did was they set up a Mac and a Windows PC next to each other, and had Justine use Windows and Linus use MacOS for a series of routine computer tasks. Both found stumbling blocks. Both of them, when hearing what the task is, said to the other “Oh you’re going to struggle with that.” I remember specifically Justine saying that of taking a screenshot on MacOS because apparently the key combination isn’t intuitive, it’s something like Cmd+6 or something?

            Why didn’t WIndows and MacOS both get declared unfit for use by normies the way Linux did? They did a similar “here are some tasks to complete” challenge which wasn’t well thought out; how would most people “sign a PDF?” Why would “enjoy HDR content” be on there other than “lol it doesn’t support this.”

            I also recall another older episode where (do we retroactively call her Emily for appearances in older videos?) walked James through the process of installing and running games in Linux. Which I think would be a more valuable series of videos than “some guys who fully intend to go back to windows at the end of a month try to slog through Linux unaided I guess.” Do a 30-day Learning Linux challenge, where some newbies who genuinely have a goal of switching platforms do so under the guidance of a veteran user.

            I’ll even put my keyboard where my mouth is. I’ve used Linux full time for 10 years now for work and play, I do not currently own any working Windows systems. I’ll volunteer to be that mentor character on camera.

            • toynbee@lemmy.world
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              5
              ·
              5 months ago

              IIRC, it’s cmd+shift+a number between one and four depending on what kind of screenshot you want to take (full screen, window, etc.). Definitely not intuitive.

              I only have any idea because I’m required to use a Mac at work. Just went and tested; cmd+shift+4 starts a “select an area to screenshot” process.

              • strongarm@lemmy.dbzer0.com
                link
                fedilink
                English
                arrow-up
                1
                ·
                5 months ago

                I love the Mac shortcuts for screen capture, I’ve even added them to my Linux Gnome desktop shortcuts to do the same.

                • toynbee@lemmy.world
                  link
                  fedilink
                  English
                  arrow-up
                  1
                  ·
                  5 months ago

                  Well, to each their own. Also, I can’t say whether this applies to you, but it seems likely that one might evolve a key shortcut preference from one’s early exposure. Mine was Windows and, eventually, Linux.

                  I like shortcuts involving the Print Screen button because the label is clear to me and because I can take a screenshot with a maximum of two buttons rather than three, none of which clearly express “screenshot” to me.

                  Regardless of the reasoning, I doubt we’ll come to an accord, but I respect your preference.

          • monkeyman512@lemmy.world
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            3
            ·
            5 months ago

            The part you are missing is that they are making content that aligns with the majority of their audience. Most people will put in a similar level of effort. Most people don’t care, they just want it to work with the least effort possible.

      • Nibodhika@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        72
        arrow-down
        4
        ·
        5 months ago

        I really miss Emily, hope she comes back soon, but I understand her wanting to be on her own for a while, but honestly her videos were the best ones always.

        • MentalEdge@sopuli.xyz
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          41
          arrow-down
          1
          ·
          edit-2
          5 months ago

          Emily has always been a delight in everything she’s done.

          But even as she’s appeared in videos a lot less, It’s nice to know she’s still advocating for FOSS at LTT. Hopefully that will again result in more coverage of the kind of stuff she used to host before her transition.

      • frezik@midwest.social
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        8
        ·
        5 months ago

        Jake prefers Linux, too. He rolls his eyes all the time at Linus’ insistence on running Windows servers, and he’s the guy that maintains a lot of that side of the business.

      • Fuzzypyro@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        7
        ·
        5 months ago

        Luke was also advocating for Linux. He said that it was much better in terms of productivity.

    • frezik@midwest.social
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      15
      ·
      5 months ago

      GN takes things more seriously than LTT in general. The better, more technical LTT videos are on par with GN’s baseline.

  • atmur@lemmy.world
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    64
    ·
    5 months ago

    DankPods uses Linux on his gaming system, which I just found out recently. Seems like Linux is starting to gain traction in the content creator space now, which is neat.

  • Telorand@reddthat.com
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    56
    ·
    5 months ago

    Yep, with Linux being able to play most games (and growing) and Microsoft’s latest transgression, Linux seems like the logical bastion for anyone tired of features nobody asked for.

  • flux@lemmy.world
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    47
    ·
    5 months ago

    Unfortunately until gaming companies see their base users move to Linux I doubt any changes will happen. But this could be a very good step in that direction if YouTubers start promoting Linux is the way to go for games and web browsers. Some people don’t use anything else.

    • tabular@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      7
      ·
      5 months ago

      It’s a chicken and egg problem. Both users and devs need to move at the same time, in reality that means bit by bit.

    • Banzai51@midwest.social
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      1
      ·
      5 months ago

      Ironically, that is why I wanted Stadia to succeed. It would have forced many game companies to consider Linux.

      But Google screwed the pooch.

    • Aux@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      2
      arrow-down
      58
      ·
      5 months ago

      Not just gaming companies, but pretty much all companies. Fuck all works on Linux, unless you’re into dev/IT.

      • PopOfAfrica@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        38
        arrow-down
        1
        ·
        5 months ago

        Its funny how familiarity works. I think doing simple stuff in windows in infuriating now that im used yo Linux.

        • Aux@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          2
          arrow-down
          25
          ·
          5 months ago

          I’m not talking about simple stuff. That’s the problem with Linux - it’s only usable for simple stuff.

          • bitfucker@programming.dev
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            2
            ·
            5 months ago

            So CAD is simple stuff huh. So does CFD, mathematical modeling of a complex control system, robotics… Man, if only mechatronics is so simple. I daily drive arch btw.

              • ferret@sh.itjust.works
                link
                fedilink
                English
                arrow-up
                1
                arrow-down
                1
                ·
                5 months ago

                KiCAD is an extremely competent suite of programs with full linux support, maybe get your head out of the dirt, lol.

                • Aux@lemmy.world
                  link
                  fedilink
                  English
                  arrow-up
                  1
                  arrow-down
                  2
                  ·
                  5 months ago

                  Except that it’s not a CAD, just an electric circuit modelling tool. I mean technically it can be called CAD, but you can’t do shit in it except for circuits.

          • AdrianTheFrog@lemmy.world
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            1
            ·
            5 months ago

            Really? I would say it has less simple stuff and more complicated stuff, although it obviously has a lot of both.

            I guess you mean that a lot of proprietary ‘professional’ software doesn’t work out of the box? I guess that’s true, but I wouldn’t call all of the alternatives ‘simple’ lol

      • Zeke@kbin.social
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        24
        arrow-down
        3
        ·
        edit-2
        5 months ago

        I’m not a dev or into IT and I’m on Arch Linux playing games and working without any problems. My sister has more trouble getting some games to run on Windows than I do on Linux.

        • Telorand@reddthat.com
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          7
          arrow-down
          1
          ·
          5 months ago

          Only time I reinstalled Windows on a laptop was when I was trying to get an ODB2 over USB connector to work, and the program (FORSCAN) couldn’t automatically read the device in Wine. You had to run a series of commands to find the device and then create a symlink in that Wine prefix. I was not going to tinker around like that while sitting in a hot car upon the hope I get it right and don’t fuck up the instrument cluster.

          But besides those weird edge cases, it’s been pretty easy for me too, and I still reinstalled Linux after that little project!

          Now that I think about it, I wonder if a Windows VM would have worked…

          • PlasticExistence@lemmy.world
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            1
            ·
            5 months ago

            A VM would normally work if USB passthrough is properly configured. That said, on operations just like that, I normally just boot to my small Windows partition that I keep around for just such an occasion.

      • null@slrpnk.net
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        10
        arrow-down
        2
        ·
        5 months ago

        Huh? How am I able to daily drive it on multiple machines for audio production, gaming, and workstation use.

        I must have accidentally installed Windows…

      • priapus@sh.itjust.works
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        8
        arrow-down
        6
        ·
        5 months ago

        99% of things people do on a computer just require a web browser, and those definitely work on Linux.

        • Aux@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          2
          arrow-down
          20
          ·
          5 months ago

          People who only do these things do them on their phones. When you actually need a PC to do shit, you either have to use Windows or MacOS.

      • reddfugee@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        2
        arrow-down
        21
        ·
        5 months ago

        Lol, sheeeh, the ratio!! I’m a (sadly) Windows-focused sysadmin in higher education and I agree with this, Linux is amazing for servers but normal business users can’t do shit with it : (

        • Semperverus@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          9
          arrow-down
          1
          ·
          5 months ago

          This was definitely true ten years ago! I’m sure you’ll catch up to the modern linux experience soon though.

            • Semperverus@lemmy.world
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              4
              ·
              edit-2
              5 months ago

              The year of the linux desktop was when AMD open sourced their drivers around 5 years ago and Valve partnered with codeweavers to drop Proton. Its only been uphill from there.

        • Cirk2@programming.dev
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          3
          ·
          5 months ago

          Normal business users are fine if the Company hasn’t deep-throated Microsoft. Our Company does all the business work with no windows machine in the whole company.

          Being locked-in on Microsoft Office is a thing and not the fault of linux

  • UnaSolaEstrellaLibre@lemmy.world
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    36
    ·
    5 months ago

    I kinda doubt they’ll fully migrate to Linux since they depend on many proprietary software tools that aren’t available outside of Windows.

    • sugar_in_your_tea@sh.itjust.works
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      20
      ·
      5 months ago

      Yup, their business is doing hardware reviews, which involves benchmarks and whatnot on Windows. So at least those machines will stay Windows, and probably their editing machines.

      They might convert a handful of other machines, but I doubt it’ll be that many.

      • CalcProgrammer1@lemmy.ml
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        15
        ·
        5 months ago

        It would be nice to see Linux benchmarks for new hardware too. Love GN’s content but I basically ignore his benchmarks as they’re done on Windows. It shows the relative strengths of the hardware but not real world Linux performance.

          • luciferofastora@lemmy.zip
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            3
            ·
            5 months ago

            He could take a bit of a gamble, do some Linux as a comparison and see if that draws viewers too, maybe some attention from those that are curious about Linux but not enough to actually delve into the topic themselves (or deterred by the reputation of Linux being complicated).

            Choosing a suitable distribution might be a challenge, particularly because some distro elitists will inevitably come to dunk on his choice and he might not want the comment section to be clogged by distro wars (particularly if the majority of viewers, as you suggested, are Windows users and will find that off-putting).

  • joojmachine@lemmy.ml
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    34
    arrow-down
    1
    ·
    5 months ago

    My main hope for this is that their feedback helps the development of benchmarking and profiling tools on Linux. They do have quite a bunch of experience with them that could be really useful.

  • Napain@lemmy.ml
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    26
    arrow-down
    1
    ·
    5 months ago

    one of us 👏 one of us 👏 one of us 👏 one of us 👏 one of us 👏 one of us 👏