Automatically creating a shadow account for everyone on Instagram?
Even allowing people to follow that account?
Sounds like they really wanted to push Threads out the door in a big way.
Fuck Meta and all but this isn’t news. Meta litterally said straight up that they would be doing this before threads ever launched. If you have an instagram account then that is also your threads account. This isn’t some conspiracy it’s exactly what they told everyone they were doing. It’s no diferent than linked accounts for google services.
Yeah this Threads issue is getting into the tin foil delusional territory now. Just as you said. They literally say “well use your Instagram acccount” of you bother to read their disclaimers they literally tell you that they are literally using your Instagram account. It’s “Threads by Instagram”. When you first log in it ll import all your Instagram contacts and you cna “follow” them. And if they don’t have it yet it’ll say “you’ll follow as soon as they join threads” there is no “Shadow Threads account, because they are using the Instagram account.”.
You can definitely be against threads and Meta. I Personally am not super thrilled about it. But there is way more than enough to hate a out meta and threads without making stuff up.
I think the difference is that the Threads user count keeps getting thrown around as an indicator of its success and viability, but it’s not a great KPI.
I do think people are using this “realization” of accounts being automatically created as a conspiratorial gotcha, but it’s still important to remind people of this scenario as they evaluate their prospects.
If that were the case though, wouldn’t the number of Threads users be the exact same as the current number of Instagram users?
No because they’re only doing this for Instagram users who are located in the United States. It hasn’t launched anywhere else yet.
Probably because it will be quite illegal in Europe so they probably are not going to do it for European users but it hasn’t launched there yet anyway so we don’t know.
It’s available in the UK as well. They don’t follow EU privacy laws.
Why would this be illegal in Europe ?
It would be more wouldn’t it?
Total = Number of Instagram accounts + Threads only accounts
Don’t think you can make a Threads only account (at least at the moment anyway)!
Exactly, and that’s the reason why deleting a Threads account also deletes the Instagram account. Because there is only one account for both services.
Thank you for saying it.
It’s a conspiracy just in the sense that they are seemingly counting these towards their growth numbers. If they’re saying they have 20 million accounts, but they created 3/4 of them as placeholders, then no…they have 5 million accounts.
I really think they are not, those are all account from people who have actively signed up. Threads really is that much bigger than Mastodon, and it’s not that surprising.
Presumably they would have created ~2 Billion Threads accounts since there are ~2B Instagram users. Even if it was just the US there are approximately ~115M Instagram account.
So no, the 70M user number would just be the number to actually try Threads.
Google Play store alone has 10 mil+ downloads, so it’s easy to assume Apple has roughly the same…so that’s 20 million users right there…
Downloads aren’t equal to individual users, but you knew that because you’re disingenuous, not stupid, right?
They’re not creating a shadow account, you’re literally logging in with your instagram account.
What this post is implying, is that the user numbers are just existing instagram accounts, which doesn’t make sense because in that case they’d have 2 billion users within the first second.
You can follow/request to follow before the user has actually “created” the account, so they’re lying about which users have done that already, not about how many users they actually have.
Come at me downvotes
Yeah, I signed up for it, they have an option for you to pre-follow people for when they sign up to threads
Does that person who has been pre-followed then get a notification to join and respond/follow back?
Because that would be a great way to boost the new service exponentially.
Yes they do
This is the moment the account is made. Even if the other person doesn’t respond or has even created an account. That’s how they are driving up their numbers.
So long as you have an account you could potentially have a Threads account without your knowledge.
Meta is 100% artificially working the accounts.
You can’t really follow someone until they’ve made an account. Threads has an option where you can go into settings and find a list of your Instagram following list. From there, you can make it so you follow certain people as soon as they join Threads.
I hate meta just like the next person, but I‘m not sure how that’s supposed to boost accounts, since you’re literally just seeing these once you already have the account.
They are of course using their advantage in providing you your existing following list /followers. And they’re definitely happy to push it, but this post is implying something that strikes me as plain wrong.
I think you’re right. It looks like Instagram too. I feel like it’s Instagram with a focus on words.
Now we know why it was not launched in EU.
Why does everything have to be a conspiracy with some people? Threads literally and directly explains that it uses your Instagram account. They’re the same account. Nothing crazy. No magic. No oogie boogie. Just the same account.
You need to activate the threads account. People are being asked to follow accounts which haven’t been activated IE created.
You’re missing the point.
So think of it like a ‘feature’ of Instagram then. You can enable the feature or you can leave it disabled but either way its sharing user data and login information etc.
I don’t think I’m missing any point. Have you used it? They’re owned by the same company. Threads is separate but part of Instagram. Other than the user name being reserved on Threads in case the Instagram user wants to sign up, there isn’t an account created. If you try to search the name of any of those accounts in Threads it doesn’t come up at all. (Edit: mistyped a word)
Argh
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Lemmy is your chance to have a discussion without the needless hostility that Reddit et al has. Maybe try saying “I actually find it quite convenient, here’s why” etc
It’s your chance to derail every conversation into petty social media drama so you can reinforce your fragile superiority complex, that’s for sure.
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They weren’t smug at all. They suggested you not be hostile. It’s not a crazy idea.
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Cope.
Thank you. I will. Enjoy your stay.
You’re from reddit aren’t you?
Please leave.
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How about you use the most basic social etiquette available and be at least not a total asshole.
And how about I take this chance to remind everyone that we can all block the users we don’t want to interact with. And that maintaining a block list is a great way to ensure a decent online experience
The block list should be shared, too, like a reputation chain or collaborative filter. “You and user X have both blocked Users A, B, and C. User X has also blocked D. Would you like to, too?” We can each decide the kind of moderation we want to see.
It definitely is oogie boogie, which is what makes it illegal in europe as it’s against gdpr, which is why it’s not available in europe.
They’re doing some dodgy stuff with your data, that’s for sure. But the sign-up is smooth. Instagram has a LOT of users, and Meta is leveraging that and making it super easy to share to IG that you have made said threads account (and if you don’t, they will do it for you). The FOMO is real.
They have taken the biggest challenge to use a new social media platform, rebuilding your spidery web of follows, mutuals, weird interests, and friends, and made it basically transparent. It’s a UX marvel. The sign-up numbers reflect that IMO.
Sharing data of users from one company to another company without their consent is literally what GDPR exists to stop. Instagram is one company. Threads is another company.
If it isn’t oogie boogie then it literally wouldn’t have massive legislation against it preventing it worldwide for eu citizens.
Is threads a separate company though? It’s pretty explicit in saying “Threads an Instagram App”
In European law it doesn’t matter. You try and bypass laws and the courts have none of it. It’s very “fuck around find out”. They already decided against them for antitrust for doing exactly that.
That was the ruling [PDF] from the European Union’s highest court, the Court of Justice, when it upheld a decision by German antitrust regulators that Meta had abused its dominance in social media by milking users for information and swirling it together to serve up ads to users.
If you bypass shit in the EU they slap you with something else and make an example of you.
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If you signed up for Valve in the EU for like Left 4 Dead or Half Life or something, it would be against the law for them to share that account with Steam?
Account linking is usually done through a system that you opt into, agreeing to have that link.
This is entirely different, it’s just “fuck it we’ve got all this data, we’ll share it across and use it regardless of consent or not”.
While for other things it’s a completely external registration, for example I have a Steam account but also have to make a completely separate Capcom account for Street Fighter, then link the two together.
The key component is that the end user consents before any data is shared, whereas Meta’s approach is just to do it regardless of consent, treating your private information as something you don’t have a right to control.
None of the data other than the user name is shown in Threads until the user from Instagram activates their account. I’ve tried to look up a number of the people from Instagram on Threads and if they haven’t signed up, then the search results are zero.
Being able to use the same credentials for logging in is something else than creating a public profile for users that never signed up for the service.
but they don’t create a public profile for users that don’t sign up? it uses the same handle as your Instagram. If you never activate Threads then nothing happens with your IG username on Threads
I did not try Threads so I do not know. The post suggests that your user handle appears as a suggestion of a profile to follow for other people even if you never signed up.
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It’s basically just a new feature for Instagram, but in a new app because it’s too different from the standard Instagram feed.
Also if you click one of the users who haven’t signed up yet it just pre-queues your follow and says “You’ll automatically follow then when/if they join threads”(I don’t remember the exact wording here). This is blown out of proportion.
Your correct in a technical sense (eccept for mabe the fetaverse linkages) but not a semantic one,
Yes its absolutely technically true that people delete their unified account from the “other place to do so called threads account management page”
but semantically its a “new service” that they were “signed up for” with its own app, and if/when they delete their “threads account” everything else goes with it for some odd reason
Facebook and their dumb opaqeness
It’s not creating a “shadow account”, it is literally the same account. Threads is just a different frontend for what already existed with Instagram. And Meta would’ve been stupid, if they wouldn’t have use what they already have.
Oh for sure, but it does make me wonder how accurate the sign up reports are.
Does Threads report people who actually sign up and “claim” their “shadow accounts,” or does it count actual accounts and “shadow accounts?” The former is definitely a more accurate count, while the latter is basically numbers padding.
My understanding, it is reporting people who specifically elect to sign up for Threads using their Instagram account. On instagram profiles, they have been showing a badge with their Threads subscriber number that you only get when you elect to join Threads. This increases sequentially.
The highest number on the badge should give a good indication of how many Instagram users at least “claimed” their Threads account.
Ah. The Google+ approach to signing up “users”.
Yeah all that mess with Google+ and all that came out of it was we lost the + operator in Google Search.
Added to my circle!
But you can’t close your threads account without closing your instagram account.
I fucking KNEW it.
35 million users my asshole - they’re just counting existing Instagram accounts.
Pretty sure they’re not. I mean those are instagram accounts, but only those who enabled threads. It’s also at 93 million now.
Why is it so hard to believe that people download the app and try it out? It’s easy to do, users don’t have to create a new account, the app is number one on the App Store, they’re probably advertising it in instagram, and it’s still just 20% of the instagram userbase.
Decentralization is nice, but most people don’t care about it and it’s too complicated or annoying to sign up there. Threads is dead simple and people want a Twitter replacement. It’s also “just” a fifth of the Twitter userbase.
Most of the people just care for “the hot new thing” some just dislike twitter more, some are forced by friends to use it (me :( )
Is kinda weird seeing so many people on Lemmy just do not trust any data from social media.
The things of the fediverse is that everything is too complicated, seeing my friends signups for Threads they just downloaded 1 app, and max 7 clicks and they made an account, they thought Mastodon was too hard to use :(
Friends don’t make friends sign up for social media.
It’s weird to not distrust Meta, if you can’t see that idk what to tell you. In 70 years when a company is using detailed data collected about you since you were 13 to market nostalgia it’ll be too late. Even if laws get implemented in the interum between now and then banning data harvesting, whatever data is collected today will still be on the market and you’ll be an even juicier target.
It isn’t very easy to get hold of for the “uninitiated”. Which is partially a good thing, in my opinion. Meaningful interactions require effort.
Barriers to entry improve the quality of participants.
Setting things up on fediverse is overly complicated and could be made easier.
The biggest problem is it really isn’t all that clear what the pros and cons are various instances are, and the truth is that for the most part with the exception of a few particular instances it really doesn’t matter.
What might make the most sense is to have a website people can sign up on and then it just registers their account on one of a few instances to spread the load. Obviously that list I would have to be curated so it didn’t include obvious problematic instances,but it wouldn’t be that hard to do that. And that would make it as easy as threads is which basically is just an instance when all said and done.
And even if you do understand the pros and cons, it can be complicated because all these instances have differences and you have to figure out which one has the things you want and potentially make compromises.
Eg, I knew I absolutely must have downvotes and several instances disable those. I wanted to be federated with both lemmy.world and beehaw (and also lower my risk that beehaw is gonna defederate my instance in the future). I wanted as large of an instance as possible because by “fun” design, the “all” feed gets better the bigger the instance (IMO a design flaw), as does the ease of subscribing to communities (being first to subscribe is harder).
Something that would make it massively easier is portable/decentralised identities, or at least easy account migration. This should go for communities as well so that a community can exist independently of an instance, or be migrated to another instance with subscribers being redirected seamlessly.
Why?
Because Instagram did the same BS with their “Notes” feature recently and now nobody uses it.
You were automatically enrolled and it showed up on your feed and three months later, it’s crickets.
As much as I hate Twitter, I don’t think Threads is going to make a dent in the long run.
I don’t see how that’s related to them lying about user numbers, which I really don’t think they are doing.
We’ll see where threads will be in a few months, I’m sure not everyone will stay active there.
I’m not sure how you can see it any other way.
They had a successful platform (Instagram) and piggybacked a new platform on top and are counting the users toward their numbers.
If Zuckerbag released Threads without being tied to Instagram, it’d be a queef in the wind of a userbase.
It’s a clever strategy. For sure. I won’t pretend it’s not.
But seeing how “Notes” went - I don’t think it’s gonna go very far.
It’s like if McDonald’s started selling hotdogs from their stores under a separate store within their restaurants.
“McDog’s has over 1 billion served!”
No, McDonald’s does - you just put another product under the same roof by a different name.
ITT: no one who actually went through the sign-up process. It’s like a 3 step process. Eventually you get brought to a screen that asks if you want to follow all of your current followers on Instagram. You can choose yes or no to all the people you currently follow, or you can individually select who you want to follow in Threads the people you follow on Instagram. If you select anyone that has not yet activated their Threads account it literally tells you that nothing will happen for now, but if and when the user activates the account, you will follow them if they are public or it will request to follow them if they are private.
There’s no magic happening here. There’s no shadow accounts…you use the SAME login for Instagram and Threads. They obviously know when you activate your threads account and it will just show the list of users who have already completed the signup and requested to follow you
We were armchair warriors on Reddit. Now, we are armchair warriors on Lemmy. insert spidermen pointing fingers at each other meme here
spidermen
don’t see that pluralized everyday, heh
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I think something that a lot of the comments are missing here is the fact that threads, Instagram and Facebook all have been migrated from individual accounts to ‘meta’ accounts. I’m certain that we will see this happen with many platforms unless there is a serious shift in data protection laws. I don’t personally think it’s great that it’s the case but that’s just how it is. The meta platform is quite similar to how google migrated YouTube users to google accounts way back in the day. This monolithic structure ensures that they can keep your user data in a more streamlined database. From a sys admin and a business perspective it makes a lot of sense. From a user who doesn’t care and already uses all of those services perspective it makes a lot of sense. From a privacy conscious user perspective it makes no sense. Then again metas platform is in no way for the user who cares how their data is being handled.
I guess another perspective is talking about interoperability. It kind of feels like they are taking the web3 (I know it’s a loaded term) approach but instead of applying it in a way that allows free development and communication in a way that basically pulls from decentralized/distributed databases you instead get a centralized monolithic model that creates interoperability within their own walled garden.
Dude there are people with the name poo poo pee pee on Facebook. I regret ever using my real name with Google and Facebook
Meanwhile, I got my first ever Facebook ban because someone salty about losing an argument reported me for using a fake name. I was using my real name, which has a Scandinavian letter in it, and had to submit a picture of my fucking passport for fb to unlock my account 🤦
I do find it weird how so many people for both claimed their accounts were suspended or banned for not using a real name, when I never gave them my real name and have kept both of those accounts the entire time without issue. Maybe it’s because I don’t actually use Facebook; but I still use a lot of Google’s shit because there isn’t anything better yet.
It’s about email if you make account using email and email name and your name not match you will be ban. If you use your mobile number you will not be ban because they don’t know your real name you will only get banned if someone report you for using fake name
I had my fake account deactivated for using a made up name a few years ago. I was forced to giving it a real fake name instead of a comedy one. Haven’t used it years now so I don’t even know if it’s still working.
Then again metas platform is in no way for the user who cares how their data is being handled.
This is very important. Users choose to give their data over to these companies.
They should have that choice, regardless of the repercussions.
It’s not really a choice though, is it? They can’t access fb without “choosing” that and for many, Facebook used to be/is the only way some people have to socialize or just contact family members.
It’s the student loans of privacy.
Not only that, there are parts of the world where FB provides the internet for free and its prohibitively expensive for those people to access the internet otherwise. You can’t realistically say those people have a choice.
That’s not even broaching the topic of whether or not we should give people “the choice”. Generally things that are known to be harmful if used in certain ways aren’t allowed to be sold to the general public. We take away “choice” all the time to protect the average idiot, I don’t see how this is any different.
They do have a choice, just like we can choose to use the fediverse instead of the metaverse.
They chose what’s popular, regardless of the consequences. They should be free to do that just as we should be free to do this.
Personally, I think this should be more popular, but I don’t control the world and don’t care to.
Have you ever heard of a little thing called coercion? False choice? Emotional blackmail?
To pretend that it’s a straightforward choice is downright asinine.
Lol, what?
They have something that people need. Not kinda want. NEED. They know this and they’re using that leverage to make people agree to things that they never would otherwise. It may technically be legal, but it’s extremely unethical and nowhere near an unencumbered choice.
Do you get it now? If not, that’s too bad. I can explain it to you, but I can’t understand it for you.
Err… no they don’t.
I think you need to brush up on the definitions of “want” and “need,” lol.
Actually, to Meta’s credit here, they do transparently say this when you make an account.
You can send follow requests to all of your Insta friends, and once they activate a Threads profile, they will see any follow requests they may have gotten.
They did say “X milions of accounts were ACTIVATED in one day”, not “created”.
That number actually seems pretty low now, considering the number of Instagram accounts is already in the billions. Maybe they didn’t activate all of them to make it seem more believable?
Yeah but the didn’t launch on the EU yet.
Why would anyone be surprised by this? Zuckerberg would have to be a complete idiot to not use Instagram’s existing social graph for Threads.
What I’m surprised about is that he didn’t use Facebook.
If you look carefully at Meta’s actions in the last few years, you’ll notice they’re slowly stepping away from the Facebook brand and product. I suspect that they no longer internally consider Facebook to be their main product, giving way for Instagram, which at the moment is a lot more popular and despite the obvious association doesn’t have a tainted name the same way Facebook does.
I wondered if it might be something to do with the real name policy on Facebook. Instagram is closer to Twitter in not having such a policy.
That was my first thought as well. Facebook is simply too different to Twitter in ways that Instagram is actually similar. On Facebook you’re blogging your life for others to follow. On Instagram and Twitter people are blogging a little of their own, but most users are there to follow others (usually big names or important people) and to comment on events those larger names are blogging about.
Same here. I reread it because I thought I missed the word “Facebook”.
Thanks for the reminder to delete my Instagram account. Though I’ve never posted anything there, I’ve used it to follow some people.
Is it too much to hope that all of Meta crashes and burns? It’s infuriating seeing Meta, and corporations like them, harvest all of our information…
What I can’t figure is… who sits down and thinks “fuck Elon Musk and Twitter, I’m sick of this bullshit” and then follows that logic with “you know what I need more of in my life? Fuckin’ FACEBOOK, yeah.”
I think novelty is an unfortunately large part of this. I day unfortunately because I think it’s very lame that we find creating accounts on servers providing the same service as another service we already an account on … interesting.
“We were promised flying cars and instead got 160 characters”. Well now we’ve got 160 characters … twice?!
Meaningless superficial cheap FOMO weaponised as advertising fodder. Shameful really.
Nice little webcomic that captures the sentiment: https://mastodon.social/@robcottingham/110679764036454402
They might not be real supporters. They are probably shill accounts forum sliding and doing the same things to control consensus they have done everywhere else.
This is so true. I wish there was a will/way to eliminate bots altogether on a platform. The more popular a platform is, the more bots swarm in to sway the opinions of the crowd - political opinions, consumer opinions, you name it. Reddit was lousy with bots. Constant ceaseless opinion farming. What’s to stop Lemmy from becoming just as obnoxious?
Yes it does feel like swapping a ticket for the Titanic with a ticket for the Lusitania.
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Hey, don’t give them any ideas!
I’ve never had a Facebook or Instagram account in my life. But I do use WhatsApp because it’s the main way most friends and family communicate (Australia).
I would not be happy if I found out I suddenly had a Threads account that my friends could follow without me even signing up, just because I use WhatsApp!
Meta has 100% already made shadow accounts for you across their ecosystem.
They’ve been doing that for just Facebook for at least a decade at this point, with the primary intent of tracking online activity of literally as many people as they can. Much of it is done in an “anonymous” fashion - tied to device MACs, IMEIs, source IP, etc, along with cookies that they’ve persuaded most SaaS companies to integrate on their sites (and often apps), instead of tying it directly to your PII.
Yes, but in this instance, they are allowing people to pre-follow that shadow account and then apparently you get a notification to say they have followed you promoting you to join and follow them back.
That’s a very cunning way to boost their new service quickly!
I’m relieved they’re not doing that with WhatsApp.
You keep saying the word shadow account like it’s some nefarious thing. They are following an existing Instagram account that they already follow, and will get a notification when that existing account starts using a new service.
There is nothing wrong with this.
Yeah, all fair points. And I agree that letting early adopters concretely engage with/follow shadow accounts that “don’t exist yet” is very fucking cheeky and, imo, more than a bit disingenuous.
I think you have nailed the reason they have not done this.
I guarantee you that’s not the reason. They did/do similar shit with Facebook and people were pissed, now anyone barely remembers or cares. People don’t care and facwbook/meta/zuck certainly doesn’t.
Things are more complicated than that. Spinning off of facebook was necessary. Just because you’ve done something once doesn’t mean you do the same thing in similar-but-not-identical situations though. It’s all calculation at the end of the day, and each equation has its own set of variables.
Similar to how we’re likely going to see a brand new form of attack, where instead of being EEE’d, he just tries to smother awareness of us and keep us small. Since he can’t actually outright eliminate us.
And because WhatsApp isn’t popular throughout since there are also regions that almost exclusively use LINE or very heavily adopted Telegram. Not everyone uses Instagram but it’s a popular choice for the kind of service it offers all over the world.
Get friends and family to switch to Signal App
Yeah, that’s not likely sadly.
The fact that WhatsApp is so crucial may very well be the reason. In India and places in Europe, WhatsApp is literally a direct replacement of texting, which means it contains communications from practically everyone and everything - your workplace, your local government, your grocery store, your gym, your friends and family, public services, etc. And since your chats themselves are E2E encrypted, the background usage data Meta can extract from users will be too dirty and unmonetizable.
Their interactions on Facebook and Instagram - now that’s rich data. They get to know exactly where and with which people your preferences and interests lie.
They would never greenlight something based on popularity outside the US, that’s just not how Usians think. WhatsApp might as well not be popular anywhere.
There might be things Meta isn’t allowed to do with WhatsApp. Also the concept of account is bit blurry on WhatsApp because you basically login with your phone number and an SMS code sent to your device. This wouldn’t work as well for a service that can be used elsewhere.
WhatsApp is a messenger. Facebook, Instagram and Threads are social media. Also, Threads is actually by Instagram moreso than it is by Meta (although the distinction isn’t too dramatic, it’s just under the Instagram branding)
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I wanna leave whatsapp so bad but I’m trapped :(
at least you get to use whatsapp. i happen to be bound to the only two countries on the damn planet that near exclusively use facebook messenger for everything including corporate business support. i’d take whatsapp over facebook messenger any day.
of course, i’d take neither given the choice. but still.
What two countries are those so I can avoid them?
Same here. I installed signal but only managed to convince 2 people to use it so far. Everyone else is on WhatsApp
Threads isn’t even in europe yet thanks to EU privacy rules.
Is WhatsApp really that popular???
5 billion downloads on the Play store. Apparently about 1-2 billion of those are not very active. Still huge numbers though.
Yes, especially in India. It’s not a surprise that India is Whatsapp’s biggest market.
Yes, in very poor countries, they subsidize the data usage for WhatsApp, so that it’s free to end users. It’s extraordinarily popular in Asia and Africa as a result.
I already have enough spam and scam messages on Whatsapp now imagine they are opening my profile to another billions of people
Can we please stop with the misinformation campaign.
Everyone on here is trying to pat each other on the back by being better than Reddit.
So far no one on here acts differently from Reddit, no matter how much you guys like to pretend lol.
“Shadow accounts” lol. It’s literally your instagram account. Threads is built on top of Instagram. None of this is some hidden secret.
Sir, this is Lemmy.
I’d you have to create a threads account, which shares and logins to your Instagram account, for it to be active, but people are being sent advice to follow accounts which haven’t been activated, then this is bad faith behaviour and not misinformation.
not really. If the account never activates on Threads then nothing happens. It’s just a convenience. If they don’t offer this feature then you have to consistently keep checking to see when your friends activate their account and go find them. It’s objectively a worse experience to do it that way
