Downvote them all you want, it’s a very poignant point that’s left at the wayside of defeating Trump right now. Joe wins in ‘24? The threat of a second Trump presidency is deferred, but he has fundamentally transformed American politics regardless
“Deferred” like he’s likely to be back in 2028. Extremely unlikely he will be eligible by then, and even more unlikely he’ll even be able to mentally/physically fit enough to campaign. He’s already falling to pieces.
So? He’s the alt-right iconoclast currently yes, but the undercurrent was there in the McCain-Obama race, and Trump demonstrated the easy mode to power of populism to the RNC. Look at the current House shitgibbons, and how most of them have survived reelection, look at who just stepped down at the RNC to make way for a groomed successor.
Trump going to jail, being disqualified, or succumbing to himself wouldn’t unopen that box.
Yes, others will claw over each other to try to be the next idol. It doesn’t mean anyone will succeed.
There is no 100% win on the table here. Absolutists like you need to accept that sometimes, you just need to take the win you can get, and work towards incremental improvement for the next time.
And no, communist revolution won’t solve anything, nor is it even remotely possible.
Who mentioned communist revolution? Quit building strawmen, tf
You’re delusional if you think Trump is an aberration. He isn’t a hive mind leader, but he has shown the right how coded and open fascist language can be used by a demagogue to gain and wield power. That message has been well and roundly received on the right, where realpolitik never died.
I’m no absolutist, but the moderate left needs to stop pretending they care about progressive votes when the party’s selection process is entirely performative. Are we a coalition of unity, or subservient fringe? If I don’t matter enough to have a say, why do I matter enough to be bullied into compliance?
I mention the communist revolution thing because your points echo a lot of tankies here.
Vote progressive all you want. Volunteer for their campaigns. I’m all for it, as long as you’re not giving the populists/fascists ammo (Ex: attack ads). But if you don’t fall in line and vote blue for the presidential election, well, I have zero respect for people who can’t prioritize and vote for the real candidate that they think is obviously better, in this political environment where we’re teetering on the edge of facism.
If you vote independent or don’t vote, the only statement you’re making is that you’d rather destroy this country than vote against tyranny vote for someone that isn’t your first choice, but leagues better than the other.
Especially since we already got Trump in 2016 because people couldn’t swallow their distaste and vote for Hilary.
Especially since we already got Trump in 2016 because people couldn’t swallow their distaste and vote for Hilary.
Ah. There it is. Those other people who didn’t vote for my team after we faked a primary are bad. Not my party who forced on the electorate an Nth generation political insider, who was broadly unappealing, had a problematic history, and a hawkish foreign policy track record.
The refusal to accept responsibility for the 2016 election is why we’re having this conversation, again. People saw the naked corruption in the primaries, and got disenchanted. Not because ‘my guy didn’t win the primary and I’m butthurt’, but because the DNC cheated. Openly. Admitted as much in court when sued about it.
But then everyone is supposed to “fall in line” behind an unrepresentative candidate the central committee has chosen, right? And you’re calling other people tankies???
Yes. That’s exactly it. I had no love for Clinton, or even the dems. I would have preferred Bernie, simply because I felt he would do better against Trump.
And at that point, it wasn’t even my side vs their side. I wasn’t even a registered Dem. It was simply the entire Republican lineup was a national embarrassment, and Trump was the biggest ass of the bunch.
So yes, when one candidate is as big of a jackass as they come, who very clearly intended to just fill his own pockets any way he could, versus someone competent, experienced, but rather unlikeable, it was a very clear choice. And I blame all you short sighted fucks for selfishly throwing this country to the lions because you refused to let things go and acknowledge that one candidate was clearly less bad than the other for the country.
And then Trump went beyond all expectations and really fucked this country up worse than anyone even imagined a single President could. We’re going to be dealing with the fallout for generations, just from his SCOTUS appointments alone, let alone all the other damage he did.
And now he’s back, running again. And despite all the damage he has already done, and has clearly indicated he will attempt to destroy our very democracy if he gets half a chance, you still can’t swallow the bitter pill to just accept that now isn’t the time to fuck around, and just support the obvious candidate even if he doesn’t perfectly align to your preferences.
Grow the fuck up and learn to triage, or this country is going to bleed out while you focus on a fucking bunion instead of the gaping chest wound.
Again, you’re blaming the wings of your coalition for the loss of the election in 2016, when polling data shows how shit a full quarter of non-voters thought both candidates were.
Tens of millions of registered voters did not cast a ballot in the 2016 presidential election, and the share who cited a “dislike of the candidates or campaign issues” as their main reason for not participating reached a new high of 25%
Both candidates. If the DNC hadn’t forced Hillary, it’d have been a layup for even a meh candidate like Romney to scoop up undecided & unenthusiastic from those millions. 6.7 million votes went to third parties, in a 3:1 ratio Libertarian:Green. How many of those narrow electorate college losses could have been avoided by a candidate who wasn’t “not Trump” to a significant minority of the electorate:
Arizona lost by ~91k - 45:48%, 11 EC votes
Florida lost by <114k - 48:49%, 29 EC votes
Michigan lost by <11k - 47.2:47.5, 16 EC votes
Wisconsin lost by <23k - 46.5:47.2%, 10 EC votes
Pennsylvania lost by ~44k - 47.4:48.2%, 20 EC votes
All swing, or lean states, in a 304:227 EC result. I don’t like the Electoral College game because it’s undemocratic, but again this is something The Party has declared off limits. Just like alternative voting systems… why would the Democratic Party not want more democratic practices? 🤔
This would be even better for the fascist regime than if he were healthy and vibrant. Caption some pictures of him saying he approves their message, trot him out for an occasional appearance at a big yearly event, and then they are free to do whatever they want with his “blessing.” They need Trump as a galvanizing symbol, nothing more.
Downvote them all you want, it’s a very poignant point that’s left at the wayside of defeating Trump right now. Joe wins in ‘24? The threat of a second Trump presidency is deferred, but he has fundamentally transformed American politics regardless
“Deferred” like he’s likely to be back in 2028. Extremely unlikely he will be eligible by then, and even more unlikely he’ll even be able to mentally/physically fit enough to campaign. He’s already falling to pieces.
So? He’s the alt-right iconoclast currently yes, but the undercurrent was there in the McCain-Obama race, and Trump demonstrated the easy mode to power of populism to the RNC. Look at the current House shitgibbons, and how most of them have survived reelection, look at who just stepped down at the RNC to make way for a groomed successor.
Trump going to jail, being disqualified, or succumbing to himself wouldn’t unopen that box.
Yes, others will claw over each other to try to be the next idol. It doesn’t mean anyone will succeed.
There is no 100% win on the table here. Absolutists like you need to accept that sometimes, you just need to take the win you can get, and work towards incremental improvement for the next time.
And no, communist revolution won’t solve anything, nor is it even remotely possible.
Who mentioned communist revolution? Quit building strawmen, tf
You’re delusional if you think Trump is an aberration. He isn’t a hive mind leader, but he has shown the right how coded and open fascist language can be used by a demagogue to gain and wield power. That message has been well and roundly received on the right, where realpolitik never died.
I’m no absolutist, but the moderate left needs to stop pretending they care about progressive votes when the party’s selection process is entirely performative. Are we a coalition of unity, or subservient fringe? If I don’t matter enough to have a say, why do I matter enough to be bullied into compliance?
I mention the communist revolution thing because your points echo a lot of tankies here.
Vote progressive all you want. Volunteer for their campaigns. I’m all for it, as long as you’re not giving the populists/fascists ammo (Ex: attack ads). But if you don’t fall in line and vote blue for the presidential election, well, I have zero respect for people who can’t prioritize and vote for the real candidate that they think is obviously better, in this political environment where we’re teetering on the edge of facism.
If you vote independent or don’t vote, the only statement you’re making is that you’d rather destroy this country than vote
against tyrannyvote for someone that isn’t your first choice, but leagues better than the other.Especially since we already got Trump in 2016 because people couldn’t swallow their distaste and vote for Hilary.
Ah. There it is. Those other people who didn’t vote for my team after we faked a primary are bad. Not my party who forced on the electorate an Nth generation political insider, who was broadly unappealing, had a problematic history, and a hawkish foreign policy track record.
The refusal to accept responsibility for the 2016 election is why we’re having this conversation, again. People saw the naked corruption in the primaries, and got disenchanted. Not because ‘my guy didn’t win the primary and I’m butthurt’, but because the DNC cheated. Openly. Admitted as much in court when sued about it.
But then everyone is supposed to “fall in line” behind an unrepresentative candidate the central committee has chosen, right? And you’re calling other people tankies???
Yes. That’s exactly it. I had no love for Clinton, or even the dems. I would have preferred Bernie, simply because I felt he would do better against Trump.
And at that point, it wasn’t even my side vs their side. I wasn’t even a registered Dem. It was simply the entire Republican lineup was a national embarrassment, and Trump was the biggest ass of the bunch.
So yes, when one candidate is as big of a jackass as they come, who very clearly intended to just fill his own pockets any way he could, versus someone competent, experienced, but rather unlikeable, it was a very clear choice. And I blame all you short sighted fucks for selfishly throwing this country to the lions because you refused to let things go and acknowledge that one candidate was clearly less bad than the other for the country.
And then Trump went beyond all expectations and really fucked this country up worse than anyone even imagined a single President could. We’re going to be dealing with the fallout for generations, just from his SCOTUS appointments alone, let alone all the other damage he did.
And now he’s back, running again. And despite all the damage he has already done, and has clearly indicated he will attempt to destroy our very democracy if he gets half a chance, you still can’t swallow the bitter pill to just accept that now isn’t the time to fuck around, and just support the obvious candidate even if he doesn’t perfectly align to your preferences.
Grow the fuck up and learn to triage, or this country is going to bleed out while you focus on a fucking bunion instead of the gaping chest wound.
Again, you’re blaming the wings of your coalition for the loss of the election in 2016, when polling data shows how shit a full quarter of non-voters thought both candidates were.
Both candidates. If the DNC hadn’t forced Hillary, it’d have been a layup for even a meh candidate like Romney to scoop up undecided & unenthusiastic from those millions. 6.7 million votes went to third parties, in a 3:1 ratio Libertarian:Green. How many of those narrow electorate college losses could have been avoided by a candidate who wasn’t “not Trump” to a significant minority of the electorate:
All swing, or lean states, in a 304:227 EC result. I don’t like the Electoral College game because it’s undemocratic, but again this is something The Party has declared off limits. Just like alternative voting systems… why would the Democratic Party not want more democratic practices? 🤔
Why should anyone care about being respected by you of all people?
That’s funny because when I look at Biden he looks like the perfect moderate candidate to me. Seems to me they got 100% of what they wanted.
This would be even better for the fascist regime than if he were healthy and vibrant. Caption some pictures of him saying he approves their message, trot him out for an occasional appearance at a big yearly event, and then they are free to do whatever they want with his “blessing.” They need Trump as a galvanizing symbol, nothing more.
And the establishment Democrats will intentionally elevate someone just as crazy or worse than Trump.