Trump is winning big with his base, but there’s no sign that he's broadening support - eviltoast
  • porous_grey_matter@lemmy.ml
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    1
    ·
    10 months ago

    not a legal expert and I doubt you are as well, but if you search the 'net there are plenty of articles from respectable news sources covering debates and discussions over whether it’s legally genocide or not. I’m not going to debate it with you; I’ll leave it up to those who are qualified to determine if it is truly genocide, and pursue war crimes charges as necessary. I

    That’s exactly my point. The “legal definition”, if for some reason it doesn’t apply, is just an excuse to avoid confronting the atrocities we are complicit in committing. If the “legal definition” isn’t met, then it’s simply wrong. Some court case isn’t what determines whether it’s “truly genocide”, it’s that Israel, with our support, is and has been trying for decades to eradicate an entire people and culture.

    a pretty good assumption that some portion of the cries of genocide are the result of foreign propaganda to both garner support for Hamas and the continuing disruption and outside influence of US politics.

    I do agree with this, and it’s really unfortunate. But yeah, if I was Hamas I would use the fact that Gazans are being genocided to drum up support too, it’s a pretty good argument. To avoid creating a situation where Hamas looks like the good guys, I think the best thing to do would be to, you know, stop murdering Palestinian children.

    • agentsquirrel@sh.itjust.works
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      1
      ·
      10 months ago

      The “legal definition”, if for some reason it doesn’t apply, is just an excuse to avoid confronting the atrocities we are complicit in committing. If the “legal definition” isn’t met, then it’s simply wrong. Some court case isn’t what determines whether it’s “truly genocide”, it’s that Israel, with our support, is and has been trying for decades to eradicate an entire people and culture.

      I don’t think proving actual genocide is a prerequisite or requirement for bringing war crimes charges and holding people accountable. For example, if in war a military unit/leader/solider executes a group of unarmed civilians, it can be pursued as a war crime as it’s intentionally targeting and harming civilians, but executing one group of civilians in this fashion isn’t genocide, even if they were a specific race, religious sect, etc. Undoubtedly if there was a pattern of this occurring and there was provable support from leadership, it would be considered genocide. Genocide, like other terms like suicide, homicide, germicide, etc., has a specific meaning. Morality is much more subjective, and hence I’d call Israel’s action quite immoral. Israel may indeed want to eradicate Gaza as a territory or political unit, however that doesn’t mean it’s genocide. Otherwise we could call Russia’s desire to eradicate or annex Ukraine genocide. And after I write all this, I realize I’m debating the meaning of genocide. But I digress.

      a pretty good assumption that some portion of the cries of genocide are the result of foreign propaganda to both garner support for Hamas and the continuing disruption and outside influence of US politics.

      I do agree with this, and it’s really unfortunate. But yeah, if I was Hamas I would use the fact that Gazans are being genocided to drum up support too, it’s a pretty good argument. To avoid creating a situation where Hamas looks like the good guys, I think the best thing to do would be to, you know, stop murdering Palestinian children.

      On all this we can agree. I don’t want innocent civilians killed, either. I take issue with the term genocide and the way it’s being used, especially in the context of the US supposedly “promoting or supporting” genocide. That’s simply not true. It’s a complicated landscape and as we’ve been discussing this I see there is a ceasefire being pursued diplomatically by the Biden administration. I think the way the term genocide is being used here and elsewhere cheapens it and compromises the severity and seriousness of the term.