- cross-posted to:
- the_dunk_tank@hexbear.net
- cross-posted to:
- the_dunk_tank@hexbear.net
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My wages have not gone up and the prices i pay are still going up.
But the economy is doing great! Billionaires and corporations are making record profits while eliminating thousands and thousands of jobs!
The DOW is a misery index. A measure of how much wealth can be extracted from the working class and reappropriated to the wealthy.
What does DOW stand for?
OK, so the D stands for Dow Jones … what do the O and W stand for?
It’s not an acronym
Then why did @disheveledWallaby write it as one?
Ya but they fired one full time worker and replaced them with three part time workers! Progress!
All hail the job creators!
I’m confused. Wages are growing faster than inflation now. Unemployment is back down. Every metric for WORKERS (not stocks, markets, etc.) is on the up.
Do you have evidence I can read about this part time phenomena?
While I know things are generally bleak from a general late-stage capitalism point of view, and things cant be all good for everyone, but things are looking good or better, at least for most people. What benefit is there in denying this? It’s the same FUD the media is spreading, I feel.
Specific inflation, like rent and food, are not down and not being beat by wages. Also the official inflation numbers don’t include food.
Furthermore, there’s decades of slippage to make up for, just in the official numbers. There is a 139 percent gap since 1974. (The first year for which numbers are easily accessible) That means that the inflation added up every year beats median wage change added every year by 139 points.
A couple months of beating core inflation isn’t going to solve something that’s been problematic since the mid 2000’s.
Good points! Isn’t decreasing runaway inflation still a boon? Also, what metric for inflation are you using? I thought the CPI included average essentials a person would buy, like food. It seems that measure is also decreasing:
https://www.bls.gov/charts/consumer-price-index/consumer-price-index-by-category.htm
How does one beat core inflation, though? Deflationary and austerity measures typically end poorly, right? I guess companies would have to pay up so that productivity gains match real wage gains.
Well yeah. That’s the basic problem. If we still prioritize corporate gains, we will never get people back on on track.
That’s all great in a vacuum, but when you add in housing costs suddenly none of those gains are enough.
Totally! In the context of Biden’s economic policies, generally, I think it reflects favorably for him.
I would like to see corporations banned from purchasing single family homes, massive rent control measures, etc. But these aren’t things I can expect Biden to achieve unilaterally or quickly.
Biden doesn’t even acknowledge the current issues with the way our economy is structured as evident by this article.
They really only included a quick blurb. What about Biden’s other efforts?
Brainard [one of Biden’s top economic advisors] described “lowering costs and increasing access to housing for Americans” as “one of the most important issues in the President’s economic agenda.”
and
He has backed several affordable housing bills and action plans in 2023 — including the Neighborhood Homes Investment Act, which would produce 500,000 starter homes in under-resourced communities over the next decade
I am not hyper up-to-date on everything political these days, but it seems like Biden is doing alright. Especially when I consider the alternative 🥲
Public sentiment is a trailing indicator of economic success. Until the gains are really felt by people they don’t see them. In a couple months that wage growth and lower inflation will even out.
Quite a few states are increasing their minimum wage in 2024, and federal workers are getting a 5% raise. I imagine the “but why aren’t people happy about the economy” stuff will fade away in a quarter or two.
Hey if that happens, then great. But it’s one hell of a bet to make in an election year. Especially when people have been struggling for a decade now.
“fool! If you knew economics better you’d understand that your buying power is the wrongest metric. Look at the stonks you uncultured swine!”
-a super smart economist, probably
I had someone try to tell me that the economy is better than ever, people are more rich than ever, and my “personal anecdotal evidence” can be completely dismissed.
It’s no longer “personal anecdotal evidence” when 150,000,000 people are experiencing the same thing just in my own country.
when 150,000,000 people are experiencing the same thing just in my own country.
No they’re not.
How does this garbage have any upvotes?
https://www.statista.com/statistics/1351276/wage-growth-vs-inflation-us/
Seems like wages have been rising faster than inflation since February 2023. BR, super smart economist, probably
So what you kinda tried to say without saying just now was that your data refutes my point. Before i waste time playing with you on a topic i felt done with yesterday im gonna make you commit more. Is that what you are saying? That your data, february 23 to today wage growth vs inflation, refutes the points ive made yesterday about massaged data being used to misrepresent reality? And this data shows me that the increased actual cost of living has been for 10 months outstripped by wage increases for Americans across the board? I need to know what you mean, precisely.
Mine and my wife’s have, it’s all anecdata, but we’re doing better than before.
Min wage not increasing and prices increasing isnt anecdotal
At least where I am, no one makes minimum wage. Fast food and retail jobs are $17+/hr.
Minimum wage is irrelevant if the prevailing wages are higher. It seems like monthly we’re hearing that a union has signed a new record breaking pay agreement.
That is not anecdotal - pay is going up: https://www.bls.gov/news.release/empsit.t19.htm https://tradingeconomics.com/united-states/wages
Get in a union. Or keep changing jobs just going to wherever will pay you the most.
I have a union job and a non union part time job. Pay has gone up a decent chunk at both over the past few years.
“Just get a new job” is a completely asinine take. Many many reasons people can’t. Someone with a family working full time doesn’t have the time or energy to develop the skills for a better job. Someone at fast food in a small town has the choice of other fast food or other retail which all pays the same.
In my wife’s case, she cares for a disabled family member. If she didn’t do it, nobody would. She has no choice.
I mean I agree it’s not a very helpful take, but it is true. Right now is the best time in history to educate yourself and build skill sets that are marketable
If you chose to live in a small and isolated town, have no skills beyond line staff at a fast food restaurant, are unable to promote up to management there, and unwilling to travel, I’m sorry, but you sound like you dug yourself into a hole. I have a job I enjoy a lot, even if it’s not very high paying, but I still have the experience and skill set to go off and get at least 3 other jobs in 3 other fields that would pay me more, or even getting a job doing what I do now but at a higher paying place, but like I said. I like where I’m at.
Stuff is expensive as hell now, but you can do something about it. It sounds like you may not want to choose any options that exist, though. If you’re dealing with something that totally prevents you from doing so. But hell, even work from home Apple help support reps start at like $45k/ year.
If you chose to live in a small and isolated down,
And then on any post about housing prices, all you see are comments like “well you chose to live in an urban area!! If you liberals would just move to rural Alabama you could afford your rent!1!” So which is it?
Then I get downvoted for saying there’s a million reasons people can’t just up and move, including a lack of jobs and other resources in rural areas. Besides, a majority of people don’t necessarily choose where they live. There are countless socioeconomic circumstances that dictate that.
It’s just proof that people continue to fall for placing the blame on one another when it should really be directed straight upwards.
You sound like a 20 something, childless white guy that was spoonfed fox News. Glad you had time to build new skills. Some people have children or ailing/disabled families. Some people already work 2 jobs.
Some people struggle, even when they do everything right. Callous ass.
Lol. Holy shit did you fly way off the mark. Try going with 40’s, fam with kids, and lean left. Housing assistance,snap, socialized medicine, taxing the wealthy, and all.
Sure, you can have bad luck and get screwed in life, but right now the job market is WAY better than when I got out of highschool just before 9-11 happened. You can get a work from home job at $20 an hour right now, I drive a class B truck as a side job for $26 an hour, and there’s a rock quarry that hires green people for over $25/hr that end you up close to $35 after two years. I don’t live in some fantastic state, either. Midwest.
Right now there’s a ton of work available if you go get your feet wet. The younger than me generation is screwed on housing costs right now. I’ll give you that, but so was most of my generation. But you also have the ease of an online education and remote learning making it far easier and cheaper to get into some things than anyone else before has. The job market was terrible when I got out of school. Now unemployment is low and unions are getting a hold again and companies are all having to pay more just to poach other companies for people. John Deer will hire you, pay you to go through their 6 month program to learn how to work on their tractors, give you a truck tool box decked out with tools and send you off as a repair tech for them for like $70k a year. There’s not a mechanic shop in the country that isn’t behind right now due to the high vehicle prices causing people to hold their old vehicles together longer that wouldn’t like another person to do mechanic stuff.
I’m rambling, but the point is, there are pretty ok jobs out there right now. Businesses are willing to train you on the job from knowing almost nothing at this point. If you look and don’t live in the middle of nowhere, you can probably get hired doing something that pays better than wherever you’re at. Today’s economy no longer rewards loyalty.
People can’t buy houses with three full time incomes. Glad you got yours.
You’re fucking delusional, dude.
People can and do, you weirdo.
I’m interested to know is that your wife’s job? You started out by saying people can’t just get a new job. Which is fair. But I’m confused as to if she is actually working. Not to say it’s a bad thing either way. We gotta do what we gotta do.
The whole get a new job thing doesn’t work for everybody. But the main point behind it is employers are more competitive when searching for new talent. Thus hire wages. You don’t necessarily have to learn a new skill or change industries. Hopping from McDonald’s to Burger King might get you more money in comparison to waiting for a raise. Depends on your market and your industry.
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Which part of “cares for a disabled family member” is hard to understand?
Is it confusing to you that someone would care for someone else?
…or is it just a general lack of empathy?
Get in a union
Don’t just get in a union. First, get to know if what they’re doing is good for you, for the community, for the industry. Most unions have not been good for any of these in the last few decades.
I’ll talk to biden and let him know of your situation. I’m sure he will do something tomorrow dw.
Ill let him know next November
Trump will 100% be great for your life 💯💯💯💯
Oh boi i get to choose between my life getting worse and my life getting worse.
BoTh SiDes is defeatist bullshit and just an excuse for mental laziness. Try thinking for a change.
The thing is for a great many people they don’t care. They aren’t getting deported. They aren’t getting shit on any worse than with Biden.
That may change, but it didn’t in Trump’s first term. Biden has to be better now, for the working class, than Trump was. And he just isn’t.
The POTUS has little control over the economy. But the economy is way better than when Trump left office, and the outlook is thousands of times better.
It’s just that people bought the claim that somehow the economy going to shit under trump wasn’t his fault (it wasn’t) but now that the same thing that fucked trump is still fucking shit up, it’s Bidens fault.
Is the suggestion here that minorities shouldn’t or don’t matter even though they are a solid chunk of the working class?
You’re talking at me and not taking in what im saying. Working full time every week, my life is worse off now than before Biden took office. Im not going to vote to make my life worse.
The only real reason to vote for Biden is his commitment to letting us vote again in 2028. Something Trump seems soft on. What are our options in 2028? Lmao
I do hear what you’re saying. You apparently think another option would be better, despite the mountains of evidence against that
Worse off during Biden is different from worse off because of Biden. Hitting the brakes while going downhill 200 MPH doesn’t completely stop you from going more downhill. Every modern Republican has been so incredibly short-sighted that it’s genuinely destroying our future by insane levels.
Or you could just do your own thing, improve yourself, and ignore the federal government as much as you can. Even if the government is big, your life getting better or worse is still mostly on you.
Yeah, even as a solid dem from my perspective this reads as “report how I want it to sound”. It falls flat.
That said; the economy is doing better (but unfortunately the kind of economic improvement that helps shareholders more than regular people), inflation slowed down, unionization is on the rise, fuel prices (temporarily, as always) are down…so that’s good.
But housing or every kind is still out of control. Record profits without commensurately rising wages. New cars are still fucking ridiculous money. We’re being subscribed to death.
So from an everyday perspective we are still getting fucked.
There’s not much Biden can do about late stage capitalism. We’re reaching the end game. Where companies take us for just nearly everything we have to where we “survive” enough to keep working and paying them but just barely.
Even just talking about it truthfully would be something. Sticking his head in the ground is just going to get us a dictator.
unionization is on the rise
How is this good, exactly? What problems need fixing in the US that unions are well poised to fix?
Low wages, poor or high cost benefits, termination for any reason the employer sees fit… unions can also fill in gaps with additional insurance, legal benefits, addiction programs, and more.
Are you not from the US?
E: quick trip thru your comment history shows possibly Finnish? With libertarian and possibly anarchist leanings. Pro-free market to a fault while completely ignoring the damage free markets do, and the fact that they’re never really free.
Pro-free market to a fault while completely ignoring the damage free markets do, and the fact that they’re never really free.
You are quite close to the truth of the matter. Free markets aren’t the problem, the fact that they’re often not really free is.
quick trip thru your comment history shows possibly Finnish?
Yep. We have a pretty catastrophic situation here in Finland because of unions that have been made too powerful by legislation. I’ll happily grant that they’ve done a lot of good work in Finland in the past, but really nothing positive in the last 4 decades at least. It has grown stale like most powerful things do when they’re let to linger without any accountability for too long.
I suppose you have a choice then. Let corporations run amok and sacrifice your well-being for profit as they do in the US, or in your case let unions take over and give people better lives at the expense of bureaucracy.
I prefer something in the middle after spending time in Europe and the US. EU quality of life is higher, as is upward mobility, longevity, and a bunch of other factors. FBFW that comes at the price of strong unions that make a lot of things difficult to do thanks to the bureaucracy.
I don’t think you really want truly free market. The first thing to be sacrificed is you for more profits.
Let corporations run amok and sacrifice your well-being for profit as they do in the US, or in your case let unions take over and give people better lives at the expense of bureaucracy.
This is a classic example of a false dichotomy. These are not the actual real-life options on offer.
EU quality of life is higher, as is upward mobility, longevity, and a bunch of other factors.
It’s possible that quality of life thing derives from politics, but it’s also possible that it’s happening for some other reasons. Also, you might not have the correct view of quality of life when it comes to EU vs USA. The problem is that USA is often depicted as a single entity which is compared to individual European countries. But really, it would make more sense to compare the entirety of EU to USA, or individual EU states vs individual US states.
But if you do compare it like that, it doesn’t look great for EU:
We have Scandinavia (where I live) and Switzerland. Scandinavia is grounded in capitalist free market economy, with varying levels of freedom and government intervention. Switzerland, of course, is one of the most free market/capitalist countries in the world – also often one of the happiest ones.
I don’t think you really want truly free market. The first thing to be sacrificed is you for more profits.
That doesn’t seem to happen in a free market, at least when competition is healthy. Companies are competing against each other in terms of employees and their product, which practically guarantees optimal outcomes for both.
Pandemic-disrupted supply chains are pretty much righted. Inflation is already back near normal levels. Labor shortages have eased. The Federal Reserve is poised to cut interest rates next year.
We’ll still get a thousand stories about a looming recession.
Inflation is back near normal, but prices are not, and wages have not shifted to match those prices (partially due to the government fighting “wage inflation”). People are still worse off than they used to be. I don’t think this is Biden’s fault, but here we are anyway.
Biden has called this out. A lot of companies are still raising prices or aren’t letting prices fall. They’re still saying “oh, this is inflation causing this” while their costs fall and their profits rise.
Biden can’t stop them singlehandedly. (He’s a President, not a Supreme Dictator.) But he can call them out on it and use what powers he has to bear down on them somewhat if they don’t stop.
It might not get all of them to stop (some might risk fines because the profits would be greater), but hopefully it will direct the anger towards the actual culprits - big companies taking advantage of past inflation to raise prices.
Biden can’t stop them singlehandedly.
No but since he couldn’t stop them he decided the working class would pay the price and had the Federal Reserve fuck over the American people.
The Federal Reserve is independent of the President. They technically answer to Congress, but in reality it’s to the big banks.
Powell was reappointed by Biden. Biden is responsible for what Powell does.
Free markets will stop that if they just let them. Unless there’s an actual cartel.
People are looking at inflation dropping, thinking that’s an immediate fix. They’re forgetting that inflation is a measure of velocity. The ground that prices gained isn’t being eaten back up unless inflation goes to an effective negative compared to income.
Those articles sure dont reflect the reality of me or anyone I know, by even a smidge
Personal feelings aside, those are the numbers. Empirical evidence that what people think is just plain wrong. Why? I suspect what Biden is saying is true.
Empirical evidence says I still have to skip grocery trips, and cant afford to fix my car.
So… I trust my lived in life over your numbers
Me and everybody I know are doing great. My empirical evidence seems to disagree with yours.
Too bad nothing can be done about that. If only someone, maybe a government agency, could collect all the data and determine how the country is doing as a whole.
Saying “the economy is turning up and things are getting better” when nothing changed is a lot different than saying “its all going to hell” when no one is struggling.
If you dont grok the difference, you were probably not at risk of the economy fucking you over like how people are frustrated about
~Yall this is NOT empirical, but anecdotal~. That said, I wish you prosperity and only happy feelings (:
edit: I am sarcasm blind, apparently
Everyone has personal experiences which shape their thinking, that doesn’t mean their thinking is correct or even any more true than someone else’s. I can trust that I feel what 2 feet is on a board, but it’s better if I measure it before I cut it.
If I want to measure a board, I don’t consult a magazine*. I use a tape measure.
Similarly, if I want to know how I’m doing financially, I’ll check my bank account balance before the network that continues to employ Jim Cramer.
*even if I were measuring in potrzebie, I would convert from the imperial units already on my tape measure instead of hunting down a copy of MAD Magazine issue 26. I respect Donald Knuth, but there are limits.
Oh wow. That CNBC article is conflating less inflation with deflation. And where they have to provide numbers they don’t tell you how that 1 percent decrease in chicken is after a huge run up. (And every other product in the grocery section there.)
I knew CNBC was an economic gaslighter but this is Fox News level of wordplay to make people think the opposite of what the actual information says. Even to the point of saying less inflation is deflation. Inflation is a measure of velocity. Going slower is not going in reverse.
And the Forbes one is a paywall.
The basic problem here is that while inflation is slowing and wages are rising, inflation being a net negative against wages for a single year isn’t enough. It’s not enough to make up all the ground lost to inflation over the decades, and the run away inflation we experienced recently. As a reminder, this is 2023. The Pandemic effectively ended in 2020. Three years ago. So what was net inflation in 2021 and 2022?
Well gee I actually have those numbers. 3.7 in 2021, and 7 in 2022. That’s net inflation, so inflation against median wage increase. The net inflation this year would need to be -10.7 to wipe out the difference created in those two years. We don’t have full numbers yet but it looks like about 5 percent median wage increase and 3 percent inflation.
So you have -2 net inflation this year. Yay. We’re still down by 8 points. But that’s okay it’s just a particularly big add to the 139 points we’re down since 1974.
Deflation is bad. I promise you do not want what you are suggesting is required.
Infinite growth is impossible. Money is made up and stupid.
Infinite substantive growth is impossible. Infinite monetary growth is possible. The entire point of fiat currency is to not limit it with physical items.
Okay, let’s say infinite growth is impossible. That seems intuitive. If that’s true, where’s the ceiling? It sounds like you’re worried that we’re going to hit it and bounce off, so maybe we should be planning for this event. What would be the best things for us to do as a species to prepare for this potentially cataclysmic event?
Money is made up and stupid
You’re made up and stupid. 😂 Just kidding, money IS made up, but it certainly isn’t stupid. Money doesn’t have any inherent intelligence, obviously, but I think your implying that we are stupid to keep using it as a medium of exchange? What would be a better alternative? Going back to the barter system?
Idk, money definitely seems better than that. It allows for greater skill specialization and for the construction of more complex economic systems. I know that can seem scary because there’s so much going on to keep track of, but arguably most people participating in society prefer it this way.
Lol the people in this thread are piiiiiiiiiiiiissed. I’ve never seen factual, tame macroeconomics 101 get downvoted so hard like this.
Lemmings know a lot about operating systems, but by god do they make Raegan look like a triple PhD in economics.
“Deflation is bad” is somehow a hot take around here because it’s either “I want prices to be back at 2019 levels and I refuse to hear that the resulting crisis will be worse than the Great Depression” or “I want to intentionally crash the economy to starve half the population to death and implement my stalinist policies. not necessarily in that order”.
Or, deflation is bad isn’t economics 101. It certainly wasn’t when I took economics 101. What’s bad is deflationary death spirals. Those have certain causes though and aren’t just something that happens with mild deflation over a long term. We know this because Japan actually went though a long period of mild deflation. And they aren’t having a great depression.
For the record hyper inflationary death spirals are also possible. But nobody in finance wants to demonize inflation because that’s how they get paid. Fun fact, a fast way to get a hyper inflationary cycle is to print a shit ton of money and only give it to rich people. Then have a ton of credit build up and get it all called in at the same time. We aren’t quite there yet, but not for lack of trying!
Yeah, IMO, the biggest thing to remember about inflation is that interest rates (the cost of borrowing) factors a certain level of inflation into the calculation. If you haven’t taken an interest in finance, this piece isn’t always obvious.
This is important to the modern economy because so much of our financial system is predicated on this principle.
For example, in the US, 30 year fixed rate mortgages are wildly popular, in no small part due to this idea. When one takes out one of these loans, the payments earlier in the loan might be rough. Over the years, due in part to inflation, personal income (generally) increases, but loan payments don’t. This makes it easier to pay down the loan over time. By the end of the 30 year loan period, typically the mortgage payment is a much smaller proportion of income. Conversely, if the economy experiences deflation, then it gets harder over time to pay off the loan.
Now expand this principle to institutional loans, government securities, etc and you’ll likely see why it is imperative to policymakers to avoid deflation.
I think that counts as economics 102. I’ll freely admit that I don’t have the necessary knowledge to debate you on this level.
What annoys me is that the typical level of economic discussion on lemmy is “they say inflation is back to normal and yet things are more expensive than they were in 2019. GOTCHA.”
We don’t need actual deflation. We need years of wages beating inflation. They aren’t the same thing. And mild deflation actually helps people on a paycheck to paycheck existence. It hurts savings and stocks.
That’s not why people are feeling pessimistic. Too much of the economic recovery is going to corporate profits and capitalist shareholders. The federal minimum wage is still half of a poverty wage, and the rent is still too damn high. The hyperinflation of the pandemic has made working for a living unsustainable. Taking inflation from 9% to 3% is great (setting aside for this conversation that any President shouldn’t really take credit for economic matters) but it’s reduce the rate at which a bad thing is getting worse. Existence is still unaffordable even with everybody employed. That’s not spin, that’s just the reality we’ve all been living in for a long time. The twin disasters of Trump and the pandemic put it all in stark relief, laying bare the grift of conservativism.
Biden is struggling because he’s trying to play old politics. We’ve crossed the rubicon. Going back to normal isn’t enough for people to feel hopeful, and reducing the rate of collapse isn’t leadership. Biden thinks being at the helm while the ship slowly rights itself is the same as leadership, and there are enough people attacking him from the extreme other side that nobody is particularly happy with him.
That’s not why people are feeling pessimistic
Everything you said is absolutely true and I agree with what is and should be happening.
However, the article is saying that surveyed people think the economy is crashing and unemployment is high.
I think it’s fair for Biden to say, “hey, you fuckers keep telling me you want capitalism. This is what capitalism looks like. This is success in capitalism. It’s up to the unions at this point in a capitalist system.”
Even though like you said it isn’t working. But not for the reasons why media makes it seem, which is what turns people to the right thinking that more extreme capitalism and deregulation will fix it!
The looming recession talk is over. They’re ready to start making real money in the stock market again and are tired of the impact the recession talk had this year. It’s no surprise that it’s been about bang on a year since the recession talk started as we came into 2023 and the stock market hit record highs as we’re coming into 2024.
It was all fabricated for… reasons. Big orgs wanted to lay people off for some reason. Investment bankers wanted to gobble up securities for cheaper. Real estate firms wanted to drive down the real cost of homes (higher interest rates = lower sale price but higher cost to families, firms benefit by paying cash). They wanted it so they made it happen. They no longer want it so it’ll end.
Indeed. Much as though I like my payments from JP Morgan, Jamie Diamon was one of the first to scream recession. He did that to increase his own wealth, not any other reason.
That’s true but peoples wages haven’t gone up at a rate that keeps pace so everyone still feels poor and can’t buy the things they need. That’s the big issue. That’s not been fixed and there is no plan to fix it. Now we all just have to wait around until our wages start to increase but we all know how long that takes.
The problem is that there is no way to fix it without fucking shit up worse. Attempting to create deflation is bad for everyone as the economy will stop growing which will lead to job loss. A recession is another way to get it done, but then that would require high levels of unemployment, and still won’t bring prices down.
We’re seeing the best possible outcome right now where inflation is down and wages are rising faster than it, and housing prices are coming down, meaning we are on track for the issue of unaffordability to go away. The Fed seems to have pulled off what most people thought was impossible: a soft landing.
We’re possibly witnessing something absolutely amazing. This is not to detract from the struggles people are experiencing, but the fact that they don’t recognize how much better off they are then how it could have been is disappointing.
When I read the Forbes link I provided, I see that wages kept place with inflation for the last 2 and a half years. When I look at the news, I see unions getting wage consessions. Inflation was a factor, but that’s been mitigated
You’re speaking as if the majority of American workers are in a union.
It is true that the success of unions on wages effects the wages of non union workers,
Yes but when union membership is only at 10% what impact are you really talking about nationwide?
The 10% of union wages should still impact the rest of the industry, so the 10% of the workforce getting raises and concessions will force other companies to increase wages or benefits, even if it isn’t as much as the unions’ increases.
Rapidcreek was attempting to make the case that working class conditions are stable and rising. His points of union gains ignore vast swaths of people’s material reality. Unions gaining ground in the past year is a great point, one I am not denying, however those gain are a very small fraction of the already small fraction of unionized workers.
Many of the contracts left many workers out of improvements. The UPS contract won by Teamsters for example was very vocal about how it ended a two tier pay scale system, but in reality it just created a new one for part time workers hired after the contract was signed. That’s not to diminish from the gains made, but UPS’s current model requires a huge segment of their work force to be part time, as they have high volume rush periods where inbound/outbound needs to be recieved/shipped quickly as their floor space cannot accommodate the volume. Those part time workers are essential so why should they be payed at a lower scale than full time employees? Many of those part time workers aren’t as involved in union organizing and Teamsters have done a poor job bringing them into the fold, so when they vault their 85% approval of the contract, they neglect to mention what percentage didn’t participate.
That is one example of how many of the gains won aren’t what they appear at face value. Mainstream media also does a poor job reporting these nuances in labor fights. So again yes things are improving, but definitely not for everyone and it’s not the rosy picture Rapidcreek was trying to paint.
You mean the paywalled link and the gaslighting CNBC article? The government’s own numbers put median wage increase vs inflation at -8 for the 2021-2023 period.
Americans are not stupid. You will not convince them the economy is good by spitting out some numbers twisted from the data. They feel it. They know how easy or hard it is to make ends meet. They know their rent goes up every year while their wages do not.
And the harder is gets, the more radical the population becomes. Establishment democrats like Biden will not be able to maintain the status quo. Normally I wouldn’t care but their incompetence has consequences. A Trump victory at this point may signal the end of the US as we know it. We cannot continue to stay asleep at the wheel.
Your purchasing power has fallen over 20% in the last 3 years. We’re talking and average of around 7% real inflation per year. Not the official “~3%” the government puts out. That’s over 3x higher than average over the last 4 decades.
The economy has been bad, but that doesn’t change that it is getting better on many important metrics. These are leading indicators, predicting what will be, but the effects that people are feeling are more like lagging indicators that are reacting to the past and present. Hopefully we see these predictions play out in the next year before the election and into the next presidency.
What we’re going to see is a slight boost in the coming months as the federal reserve lowers the interest rate (by coincidence, also an election year 🤔)
But with the interest rate going down, the main barrier holding us back from higher inflation is being torn down. What will be the consequences of this? Prices will rise.
I think they are betting that the Ukrainian war ends in the next few months. If not ends, at least becomes a frozen conflict. This would remove a large inflationary pressure from the global system.
It’s a gamble. Perhaps they even are negotiating with Russia behind the scenes. Russian high-level officials were spotted flying to DC last week.
We’ll have to see. Hopefully they can end the war and lower interest rates. That would in effect give a large boost right before the 2024 election. Is that enough to pry the election away from Trump? I don’t know. Biden is incredibly unpopular (even more unpopular than Trump at this same time! One of the least popular presidents in history).
When it comes to “literal starvation” or “overthrow the shackles of oppression” I have a fair idea of what a lot of locals will choose.
The problem is the goal of “overthrow the shackles of oppression” may be a valid goal with class self interest in mind…
But that desire can be manipulated into accomplishing the opposite. And the populist right has shown their ability to harness the fear and insecurity that is growing in this country.
We desperately need a renewed leftist movement that the average American can get behind. Without some sort of mass movement soon, I see things getting worse before they get better.
We desperately need a renewed leftist movement that the average American can get behind.
I hope unions accomplish this. All our political parties are unwilling to.
They forget that the second option is followed by feudalism. Do they want to be serfs? Because they will be literal property of the aristocratic classes if they elect Trump and let him destroy the constitution.
Fuedalism may seem like a utopian pipe dream with what is possible. Imagine a transition to an authoritarian surveillance capitalism state (something like China).
With AI, they can even read your thoughts. You get booked into the police because of something you posted online anonymously, they interrogate you while they read your thoughts. You believe in communism? Terrorist -> prison.
These things can happen faster than we expect. Hitler took Germany from a democracy to a hell hole in less than a decade.
It looks like all countries in the world are slowly converging on a mixture of the US and Chinese system. Capitalist corporations endowed with power by the state. No free market - a few large companies are easier to control. Strong executive power and theater democracy. Large prison populations.
Also, this isn’t unique to Trump. The Democrats would bring us to the same destination, just slower. We need a new left. A mass movement like the mass protests of the 60s. That has historically been the only thing that can bring real and significant positive change to the American people.
I prefer not to depend on feelings. My feelings can sometimes be wrong… isolated data is not a prefered indicator, because it must be interpreted to be meaningful.
I’ve put several links in this string that should address your point.
Feelings decide elections, not numbers. And a large majority of Americans do not have confidence in the economy.
These people, living day in and out under the system intuitively understand their position, even if they can’t spit out figures at you. They recognize their lives are harder than their grandparents. They recognize they are working for less year after year.
Many of us are privileged- I know I am. We make good money working from home, not having any issues paying our expenses and saving for the future.
But we cannot let that privilege blind us into believing misleading optimistic figures. We are on the edge of a precipice, both economically, financially, and militarily. If the left doesn’t do something soon, we will lose the next decade to fascism.
I understand. The fact is, however, that the economy is doing well by all measurements. These are figures, not optimistic, just numbers. The US came out of the pandemic economic depression robustly. Also, the fact is that the top percentile has accumulated wealth at unprecedented rates. I suspect we are on the cusp of a generational shift when higher paid older workers retire to be replaced by younger workers. That can never happen fast enough for the younger.
the top percentile has accumulated wealth at unprecedented rates.
YES, THAT’S THE FUCKING PROBLEM
Yes, a large one…
I understand. The fact is, however, that the economy is doing well by all measurements.
The only measurement that counts to any voter is the one on their own bank statement. Tell them the economy is doing great all you want. It may even be true. If they’re having to decide which utility bill to not pay this month, they’re unlikely to give your data greater weight than their datum.
And he responded. Are those the end of your argument? Because as other poster said, statistics can be used to lie just as well as inform. You are familiar with this, correct?
If you have the stomach for getting in to the nitty gritty, pick one of your metrics and ill explain patiently why theyre bullshit.
(Good) Statistics don’t lie, but they can deceive.
So, you want me address your data without addressing mine? I’m not going to get into an hour debate on a chat board for no ther reason but it bores me. Sorry.
“I don’t want to put in the work but I’ll go through the effort of letting you know I’m not doing work instead of just ignoring you”
You can simply ignore people if you’re just going to use a lot of words to say nothing.
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No one has been talking about a recession lately. The stories have all been shit is too expensive for the majority of Americans.
And…well…they’re true.
We’ll still get a thousand stories about a looming recession.
You haven’t noticed? They’ve moved on to this election cycle’s migrant caravan. Like fucking clockwork.
Depends on how much of your income goes toward food.
Our food spend has tripled if not more over the past couple years.
If that was 2% of your net income, then spending 6% on food now isn’t so bad.
If food spend was 10% of your net income, then switching to paying 30% of your income is a big fucking problem.
Alternatively, “The Economy Is Booming And Everyone Is Doing Better, Here’s Why This Is Bad News For Biden!”
Well, consider me an a shitload of people I know and see stories about daily “nobody”
Sure as fuck feels like it’s already here for half the country.
A new pet peeve. Not slamming, or blasting, but RIPPING. He tore these fuckers’ jugulars out y’all!
Once non sensational headlines start getting more clicks, they’ll make them less sensational. More people want it that way I guess?
Yelling at cloud not effective, gotta pump up that headline.
“Bidenomics”
Opinion rejected. It’s the same neoliberal trash that’s defined American since Reagan, and Republicans want to do an even worse job at.
Did you even watch 1 minute of the video?
Bidenomics
Opinion Rejected
“Rejecting” someone you probably agree with because you can’t take a second to understand their position.
Noice.
It’s a very simple and time saving system.
Let the term “Bidenomics” cross your lips without at least audible scare quotes, get your opinion invalidated.
Dare ya to watch 1 minute.
Translation: “we spent all this time massaging CPI and GDP, yall better report how great the economy is now!”
When they report that the economy is great, always ask for whom…
If you have to tell people how great the economy is, it’s not that great.
Translation: you pulled that from your ass. There is no evidence of manipulation of the indicators and those the Gov. is using match those of the business community.
You know the CPI calculations and fields reported change freuqently right? Started back in 1981, when CDOs started getting big and housing prices had a huge jump without ever coming back down
Feel free to prove your claim at any time.
The CPI is regularly manipulated with hedonistic adjustments.
Feel free to prove your claim at any time.
“My numbers are dropping! This is not my fault! Release more articles telling them the economy is great and it’s all in their heads!”
This is the best summary I could come up with:
President Biden criticized news coverage of the U.S. economy as he faces growing backlash from voters over his handling of inflation.
In brief remarks Saturday before boarding the presidential helicopter, Biden expressed confidence in the economy and ripped the reporters for the way it has been portrayed.
The economy has roared back from the COVID-19 recession under Biden, who enacted legislation for trillions of dollars of economic relief and investments shortly after taking office in 2021.
Biden and his Democratic allies have largely blamed the media and Republican critics for skewing the public’s views on the economy by exaggerating recession fears and dismissing record-setting job growth.
Pandemic stimulus and restrictions also fueled a surge in home prices and rents, deepening an affordable housing crisis that began long before COVID-19.
Many voters are also struggling with the long-term changes to their jobs and industries caused by COVID-19, along with the lapse of economic relief programs that temporarily lifted millions of Americans out of poverty.
The original article contains 473 words, the summary contains 163 words. Saved 66%. I’m a bot and I’m open source!
If Biden wants the media to cover him better he needs to do what Republicans do: give them a simple message. The other day I saw a Biden “I did that!” sticker on a national park fee payment station. Blatantly untrue? Yes. But it’s simple and people aren’t going to research or even think about whether park fees are Biden’s fault.
“The economy sucks and it’s the president’s fault” is a simple message. But:
The U.S. unemployment rate was just 3.7 percent in November — barely above the pre-pandemic level of 3.5 percent, which was a five-decade low. Annual inflation has also fallen sharply from a peak of 9.1 percent in June 2022 to 3.1 percent in November, and the economy has defied widespread predictions of a recession.
These numbers will just be ignored. They don’t fit in a headline or even an unpaid tweet. And I find people’s natural reaction to numbers is to distrust them. “Yeah, but that’s not the real unemployment/inflation/GDP/etc”.
As for what that simple message can be, I have no idea. “Rising employment, plummeting inflation” might be an option, I dunno. But he needs to get someone in charge of messaging who will simplify things.
The economy is doing great. Except for one thing. It’s all being sucked up by the people who are already rich.
Everything we do to help just gets sucked up by the megacorporations and the already rich. I’m sure you know the feeling.
The economy is doing great. Except for one thing. It’s all being sucked up by the people who are already rich.
Biden’s supporters don’t see why this is a problem.
The problem is the economy is good in metrics but not for the individual. Corporate greed is leaving most Americans worse off despite the “good” economy
I think this is one of the things Trump got right: there should be a more adversarial relationship between politicians and the press. Of course Trump was adversarial because he wanted to do awful things, and also he wanted to set up a state media apparatus, but still.
Well, Trump was adversarial to certain media outlets. Others, like FOX News, were All-But-State TV. They’d parrot whatever he said as the god given truth and he’d parrot whatever they said as truth. If Trump said that the election was stolen and COVID was no big deal, that’s how FOX reported it. If they said that vaccines were dangerous and that immigrants were replacing “real Americans” (read: white people), he’d parrot that right back.
Also, adversarial relationships are good to a point. Biden is asking the media to cover things honestly. Trump was calling the media “The Enemy Of The People” and threatening to go after them (or encouraged his supporters to go after them) unless they fell in line. There’s a huge difference between those two adversarial relationships.
Do we have to label calling people on their shit “adversarial”? To me that word has a connotation of reacting unreasonably.
One might just call it “reporting” 😉
I have the same connotation with word adversarial…
I would think combative is closer to your connotation and adversarial is judgement neutral.
What the hell are you talking about? Trump did massive damage to journalistic integrity as a whole. You ever hear the words “fake news” before he used it?
Trump did massive damage to journalistic integrity as a whole
Not nearly as much damage as access journalism (e.g. Maggie Haberman style palace intrigue stories) did. The press and politicians being buddy-buddy is a disaster for journalistic integrity.
You ever hear the words “fake news” before he used it?
I did. The first time I heard it was on the PBS NewsHour, second half of 2016. Trump didn’t really start using the term until 2017/late 2016, IIRC. They were using the term to describe news sites that felt like “official” news sites but were not journalistic, using social media to spread and get ad revenue.
To be clear, I’m not saying that Trump’s press strategy was good. Overall it was harmful; but the adversarial nature specifically was good.
The poor and uninformed are the last to see improvement. That doesn’t mean things aren’t getting better. Yet they are most likely to vote against their self interests.
The poor and uninformed are the last to see improvement.
And the first to catch hell when things go to shit. When wages start to rise, the fed considers it a disaster to be averted.
“Just stick with us, don’t believe the crap you see from these people, the fake news.”
—Trump
"Start reporting it the right way”
—Blue Trump
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I think he’s actually saying the opposite.
Media reports say the economy is doing great because corporations are making record profits
Meanwhile wages continue to stagnate and prices continue to rise.
The economy isn’t great just because rich people are making more money. It’s only great when consumers have real purchasing power and are paid a good enough wage to circulate that money back into the economy.
That could make some sense.
why all the complaints
if someone mentions voting for someone other than biden you are instantly a trump lover and if you mention voting for someone else other than democrat or republican you are are a biden hater
maybe there should be better reasons for voting other than shirt color or letter or name
