Gotta point out that the french protests, while they are in general for everyone that doesn’t mean it’s not extremely partisan and divided. It’s just we all know Macron is absolute trash 🤷
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Americans literally in the street right now: I sleep
France doing a protest, then immediately sending Macron back for another term: Why can’t we be like that?!
Your “protests” have no demands and disrupt nothing: Americans aren’t protesting, they’re just holding street parties on the weekend.
Your “protests” have no demands and disrupt nothing
Plainly untrue.
The coverage of the protests don’t list demands. The impact of the protests regularly get downplayed and dismissed. The policing of the protests is what ultimately squelches demands and stymies disruption.
Americans aren’t protesting
Americans are alienated from one another. They are gulled into believing falsehoods. They are told that protests aren’t happening, that protests have ended when they have not, that protests have no leadership, that the leadership is infiltrated by bad actors (Russians, Iranians, The Other Party manipulators, the Mafia, the Gay Mafia, lizard people, whatever), that protests are counterproductive, that their False Flags, and that actually the only real form of protest is voting.
No more crystal clear example of this was the J6 protest in DC. News coverage of the riot was blacked out for hours, even as people were storming straight into Nancy Pelosi’s office and shitting on the desk.
The immediate coverage of the protest was that it was a Fifth Column False Flag my Antifa.
Subsequent news reports claimed it was caused by Russian disinformation.
None of the actual funders or organizers of the riot were prosecuted, but a bunch of idiot influencers took the fall.
And liberals went into 2021 thinking J6 had put an end to Trump’s legitimacy.
About 500,000 French have taken part on the protests, and about 3-7 million Americans took part in the February No Kings protest. There’s a wide range of estimates on actual participation, but it’s fair tonsay that with only 5 times the population the US had at least as much participationper capita.
But the US is 18 times the area of France, so they couldn’t centralize it. Instead we got a few good crowds of 100,000+ going in major cities like New York and LA, and thousands of smaller protests around the country.
The US protests looked small, but were massive.
But the US is 18 times the area of France, so they couldn’t centralize it.
Houston packed downtown with a No Kings Protest
You can find pictures like this in a bunch of major American cities, if you know what to search for
They were also relatively peaceful and non-disruptive.
France got one of their leaders to resign already, Macron refused it.
What resignations, policy changes, material clawbacks or concessions have the massive US protests gotten?
I say this as someone who has been to most of them and helped with organizing. It’s a yes, and situation.
Unfortunately a state that monopolizes violence only understands one language.
The point of protest should be the disruption of the status quo.
He didn’t resign. “He resigned but Macron refused” is their usual shtick to prevent just that.
Same thing with strikes and I"m still sickened by people who said essentially “Fuck them” during the rail strikes in the USA. We don’t have worker solidarity at all because of this toxic individualist mentality.
Oh please, when they raised retirement age in France there was a bunch of protests that lead to… The retirement age being raised. I say this as someone who observed, you are full of it.
You are just trying to romanticise violence as France has not protested its way out of being a fascist shithole and won’t anytime soon.
Ah yes, Macrons retirement age. The one he had to push through - killing his reputation and any future election. The whole problem with protesting is that peaceful protests don’t do shit without any threat of violence. It might not do anything but Ghandi was the option the powerful aligned with due to more radical violent options being there.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2023_French_pension_reform_law this and the linked wiki articles are decent coverage. It should also be said that this is the 3rd time the pension age was attempted to be raised in france, so third time’s the charm for killing your voterbase.
Peaceful protest don’t work against fascists who only recognize violence as power? This isn’t the win you think it is.
You are correct that the wealthy will often side with the peaceful protestors in order to quell the more violent groups. This is appeasement, not capitulation.
Thanks for the information about the French Pension Reform. Just like in the US, and everywhere else, the wealthy get what they want. Ending one politicians career is nothing to them. They have several more waiting in the wings.
The point is that no change happens in an unjust system without violence or threats of violence? I seem to get the impression you agree with me now, or that you claim that nonviolent or violent action both cause no change.
The point is the system is unjust and violent and everytime violence is used to overthrow it we just recreate another violent system.
I agree with your charactization of change in how the wealthy will often side with the nonviolent side of progressives/radicals because to them they are the lesser of evils. We have seen this play out several times. In this scenario, it is important that the violent group is separated from the nonviolent group. If the nonviolent group is associated with the violence it will typically fail to co-opt the wealthy.
oh yea, then I get your point and pretty much same page :') I think you’re spot on in that the violent and non-violent group have been seperate before - but in semi-democracies a lot of political parties can align with parts of protester demands - or we can get parties formed from protest movements like the student-group in serbia this year.
I do have the hope that we can create a non-violent, just system - I don’t think we should give up on trying even if we’ve yet to succeed! :)
I think you’ve missed what I said entirely while going on to agree with my point with another commenter.
The system is unjust, built on violence. That is the only language it now understands.
As you, yourself, say, change has bot been effectual without a sufficient threat of violence from another group. Capitulation of the wealthy and powerful. Would you rather deal with MLK or Malcolm X? Both were necessary to change, only one is lauded as a hero and he was killed for choosing the peaceful route.
I’m not advocating for violence outright. I’m advocating for disruption. Block off roads, in fundraisers, interrupt closed door meetings that sell your parks for data centers. Make people uncomfortable, force them to notice the status quo is broken.
Historically, has violence, which is monopolized by the state and effectuated on the people through financial hardship, healthcare denials, homelessness, incarceration, police brutality, surveillance, and more, been effective at forcing change? Historically? Yes. That’s an observation as opposed to romanticization.
You are advocating for nonviolent protest. I agree. I also agree that there are lots of examples of government siding with the nonviolent side of radicals. This is historically accurate and at times the violent radicals have cooperated with nonviolent radicals to further the cause. As I stated in another post, it is important in this scenario for the nonviolent radicals not to be associated with violence.
Change to another violent system is not really a win which has played out in several revolutionary movements.
Malcolm X Vs MLK was a perfect example of how your assumption is baseless: MLK changed nothing. The 64 “civil rights” act was a nothing burger that lead to him continuing to protest until he was murdered. At that point, every city in the US rioted for 9 days solid, causing the 68 civil rights act to be written and passed as a matter of urgency.
Protest does nothing unless backed by violence.
The center wing should join the left in fighting the right wing.
I feel like it’s important to note, the furthest city from from Paris is Marsielle at 660km.
Going to DC from Seattle (one of the furthest cities in the contingent US) is a 3700 km trip.
The US has no problem rioting: see Jan 6 riots. The main problem is the general worker doesn’t have the means to take 2 weeks off work to go protest for a few hours.
Who says you need to go to DC? Aren’t there any politicians in your local government that deserve to hear some of the people’s voice?
Sure do. The big prorests have been the “No Kings” protests. They were really good at slapping Trump right in the ego. I think it was the largest (in some fashion or another). We got a load of changes coming from that. Right?
The main difference with US protests is duration & disruption.
We’re not hearing about one protest in France. We’re hearing about prolonged action.
But that hits your same point. No one has the means to not be earning money to take the time to meaningfully protest.
That’s the design. That’s the trap.
Its the same reason why the elite is so scared about declining birth rates. Its not about declining productivity in 20 years. These fucks aren’t even concerned about making the planet literally uninhabitable in 20 years. What they’re concerned about is an active population with nothing to lose.
I took this photo the other day. Just sharing from Bordeaux (Macron, fuck your wife, not us)
French is such a romantic language.
French people are the GOATs of protesting
Part of the issue of that divide is that there’s a not insignificant amount of people who would fight against people wanting a better life because they’re in a cult.
That’s a cool photo. How’d they manage to make the French flag with smoke? that’s amazing.
I came to this comment section to discuss “MAURICE YO”.
Hard to get along with white Christian nationalists that believe in fairy tales that they believe are a higher power than the government which exists in reality. There is no common ground when opposing side believes in space fairies and leprechauns.
Long ago, I used to be one of those chuds. I agree with you that it’s hard to get along with them, but I also think a lot of them can be reached. Especially right now.
The inherent contradictions on the Right have never been greater in the US (in my uneducated opinion). A lot of them are looking for answers, and, if done correctly, can be converted.
France and a large portion of their population believing in opposing fairies and tales of make believe but they still come together for quality time
We can do better about accepting the ones that do leave. They likely leave their entire support system in maga and they’re essentially exiled. Vulnerable position to be in. Then the other side attacks you relentlessly, so you run back to the echo chamber and your support system. They don’t deserve forgiveness, or anything really, but if the goal is solidarity and unity, we could be more compassionate with our “we fucking warned you morons” side of it.
You have more in common with these folks than you think. Amplify your common ground, don’t let the media that portrays them in a certain negative light amplify what you disagree on.
I can agree with you on the space fairies, but what did leprechauns ever do to you?!
They stole my cereal.
They tried to kill Jennifer Aniston.
But trans people exist or something so we can’t /s
That’s why the rich are pushing transphobia. Everything is a class issue.
Basically. Expanding on that:
A slight oversimplification here, but there are two categories of problems in the world right now: class issues, and purposeful distractions from class issues.
Yep we’re all-powerful cultural destabilizers but also weak and ripe for disenfranchisement by the stupidest people around. Typical fascist bullshit.
It’s me trying to convince my otherwise VERY progressive friend who just happens to be in a cult (Mormon). She’s horrified by everything Trump stands for and her entire family being deeply in love with the biblical antichrist.
But somehow she keeps falling for ‘those biological men are coming for you sports’. She isn’t even into any sport, but keeps getting easily duped by it. She understands that trans folk were some of the earliest victims of the Nazis and is repulsed by the Group Of Pedos being so obsessed with examining women for the ‘right parts’ in bathrooms and at schools.
I won’t stop pushing back, but it’s exhausting seeing someone who is otherwise a good person fall for this shit every time it’s presented.
I’m sorry, but she falls for it because she’s a transphobe. It’s like someone in the '60s saying “I don’t think we should lynch the blacks but I also don’t want to share a bathroom with them.” Or some guy in the '20s saying “I love my wife but she shouldn’t be able to vote or open a bank account.”
She’s disgusted by the inevitable consequences of her casual bigotry but refuses to deal with it. She could stop anytime she wants. She just doesn’t want to. And she probably swears up and down she’s not a bigot, right? lol
I’m certain she is. She’s the least awful kind, the “eww they’re gross type”. I find it quite frustrating as she’s a recovering conservative still stuck in Mormonism since leaving would cut her off from her entire family. She always been treated as lesser, not only by her awful religion but also by her family due to a variety of circumstances.
There’s far too many people like her. They don’t want trans people in death camps, but they don’t want to have to change they view gender.
No we’re to busy working and trying to keep our homes
You don’t think everyone in France doesn’t have a full time job and a home/apartment to keep?
Or do you think France is just full of millions of homeless people?
I don’t care what there doing, I’m telling what I’m doing, keeping money in my bank and my mortgage paid, as long as I can do those things I’m good. You all do what you gotta do.
If I start driving now and don’t sleep, I can be at the Capitol in 1d17hrs. Let’s get there!!! /s
So the only way Americans can protest is if they are in Washington?
Or do you think France is a city of the country Paris?
Supporting the rich pedofiles
Our CEO is a female so I don’t think so. But we are making and family richer then they already were
France has them as well. At this point I’m convinced that the French are the best at shifting the blame to someone else. So I guess jog on and accomplish nothing? All the German jokes about France make sense now.
Didn’t know Germans can joke 🤷🏻♂️
“How many how many germans does it take to change a lightbulb?” One. We are efficient and don‘t have humour.
That got me a good giggle. ja
My german is still atrocious, but I recently discovered that (of all fucking things) elephant jokes translate almost 1:1. And land just about as well in either language.
lol
lol
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