I don’t understand why being trans is such a big issue. I’m not trans and I’m definitely nowhere on the LGBT spectrum, so I’ll never fully understand what it’s like to experience gender dysphoria or be attracted to my same sex. However, none of that is relevant since it costs nothing to be considerate.
One of our librarians recently transitioned, and it effected absolutely nothing. I’m just as comfortable interacting with them as before, literally the only thing that changed is the pronouns I use with them. That’s it.
If someone is getting bullied, I’ll stand up for them the same if they’re white or black, male or female, gay or not, etc. Bullying is never okay, so I really don’t see how differences the target exhibits is relevant to anything. If there’s a law that makes life more annoying or less equality vs others, we should reevaluate that law. That’s just common sense to me.
Don’t ask me my opinions on trans and adjacent issues because I’m not very well educated on them so I’ll probably accidentally say something offensive. Regardless, I don’t see any reason for civility to not be the norm here, regardless of how well educated you are about it. Just be nice to people, and stand up to bullies. That alone would probably solve most of the issues here. I don’t understand why people need to be such jerks…
Don’t worry about “saying something offensive”. We can tell when people are genuine or being a jerk, I feel, most of the time.
If you have any questions, no matter what, feel free to DM me. I find being trans and related things fascinating.
I’ll just post them here so others can chime in. This will be kinda long, but most of it is setting up the questions, and I’ll put the questions in a bulleted list at the end.
Here are some statements I’ll refer to later:
Feminists claim there’s no difference between men and women outside physiology.
Trans/non-binary has nothing to do with sexual orientation, it’s purely about gender identity.
There’s a huge fight between feminists and the trans community about whether trans women are women.
So just by looking at these groups, gender identity simultaneously matters and it doesn’t. Feminists argue that gender norms shouldn’t really exist and that there are just roles people can play. A man can raise children, a woman can be the main bread winner, etc. But just as gender roles are mattering less and less, there’s this huge push from the trans/non-binary community for recognition, and now I’m being asked to use certain pronouns after years of being trained that pronouns don’t mean anything (at least in terms of social roles).
Obviously something is motivation trans people to transition. However, at least in terms of physical performance, testosterone suppression doesn’t eliminate physiological advantages when transitioning to female (I’m not getting into the “should trans women play competitive sports” rabbit hole, just highlighting physiological remnants), so transitioning isn’t going to turn you into a biological woman, even if you get all of the surgeries and live on T pills. Yet there are still plenty that find a lot of value in it.
And then there’s non-binary folks, who don’t feel strongly enough about either gender to identify with it. So to me that means they don’t necessarily see an issue with their physiology, they just see some other value in picking something other than their originally assigned gender.
And that brings me to a few questions:
What is it about gender that they’re identifying with?
Would continuing down the feminist path of tearing down gender roles increase or decrease the number of openly trans/non-binary people? Would people bother changing pronouns if there’s no change in social expectations either way?
For those who believe in spirits/ghosts/afterlife, do trans people think their spirit/ghost/soul would match the gender they identify with?
I would like to understand trans and non-binary people more, but I don’t think that’s really possible without experiencing it for myself, in much the same way that I won’t fully understand my spouse or kids without experiencing things from their perspective. But I also don’t think it’s particularly relevant, I can be nice to people I don’t fully understand, especially when it costs my pretty much nothing to do so. I’m still interested, just not sure how to get the perspective I lack.
Are you talking about third or fourth wave feminism? There is an interesting take in the book Gender Trouble.
I’m surprised you’re interested in women’s sports. Did you catch the US Women’s Soccer match?
I missed it but got the gist from my guy friend.
Personally, I’m a huge fan of roller derby. They’ve
fully accept trans people. Love Suzy Hotrod. She’s such a badass.
My cousin actually plays roller derby, which is pretty cool.
And yeah, I’m interested. I watched a lot of the women’s World Cup this year, though I rarely watch pro soccer here in the US. I’ll occasionally watch a WNBA game (was super proud when my team the Seattle Storm won the championship), but I haven’t for years (I don’t watch much men’s sports either). I love women’s volleyball though, so I’ll watch it when I notice it’s on (also like watching lacrosse). I’m not a fan of women’s hockey though, not sure why.
As for which wave of feminism, I’m honestly not sure. I don’t consider myself a feminist so I don’t keep up on it, though I certainly support some of the less crazy proposals (e.g. equal pay, longer parental leave, etc). My wife considers herself feminist-lite, and I work with a few women who probably consider themselves feminists (though we rarely talk politics). I personally just prefer more equality and fewer top down rules and don’t really associate with any political movement (I’m registered Libertarian mostly to pump registration numbers for third parties).
I don’t understand why being trans is such a big issue. I’m not trans and I’m definitely nowhere on the LGBT spectrum, so I’ll never fully understand what it’s like to experience gender dysphoria or be attracted to my same sex. However, none of that is relevant since it costs nothing to be considerate.
One of our librarians recently transitioned, and it effected absolutely nothing. I’m just as comfortable interacting with them as before, literally the only thing that changed is the pronouns I use with them. That’s it.
If someone is getting bullied, I’ll stand up for them the same if they’re white or black, male or female, gay or not, etc. Bullying is never okay, so I really don’t see how differences the target exhibits is relevant to anything. If there’s a law that makes life more annoying or less equality vs others, we should reevaluate that law. That’s just common sense to me.
Don’t ask me my opinions on trans and adjacent issues because I’m not very well educated on them so I’ll probably accidentally say something offensive. Regardless, I don’t see any reason for civility to not be the norm here, regardless of how well educated you are about it. Just be nice to people, and stand up to bullies. That alone would probably solve most of the issues here. I don’t understand why people need to be such jerks…
Don’t worry about “saying something offensive”. We can tell when people are genuine or being a jerk, I feel, most of the time. If you have any questions, no matter what, feel free to DM me. I find being trans and related things fascinating.
I’ll just post them here so others can chime in. This will be kinda long, but most of it is setting up the questions, and I’ll put the questions in a bulleted list at the end.
Here are some statements I’ll refer to later:
So just by looking at these groups, gender identity simultaneously matters and it doesn’t. Feminists argue that gender norms shouldn’t really exist and that there are just roles people can play. A man can raise children, a woman can be the main bread winner, etc. But just as gender roles are mattering less and less, there’s this huge push from the trans/non-binary community for recognition, and now I’m being asked to use certain pronouns after years of being trained that pronouns don’t mean anything (at least in terms of social roles).
Obviously something is motivation trans people to transition. However, at least in terms of physical performance, testosterone suppression doesn’t eliminate physiological advantages when transitioning to female (I’m not getting into the “should trans women play competitive sports” rabbit hole, just highlighting physiological remnants), so transitioning isn’t going to turn you into a biological woman, even if you get all of the surgeries and live on T pills. Yet there are still plenty that find a lot of value in it.
And then there’s non-binary folks, who don’t feel strongly enough about either gender to identify with it. So to me that means they don’t necessarily see an issue with their physiology, they just see some other value in picking something other than their originally assigned gender.
And that brings me to a few questions:
I would like to understand trans and non-binary people more, but I don’t think that’s really possible without experiencing it for myself, in much the same way that I won’t fully understand my spouse or kids without experiencing things from their perspective. But I also don’t think it’s particularly relevant, I can be nice to people I don’t fully understand, especially when it costs my pretty much nothing to do so. I’m still interested, just not sure how to get the perspective I lack.
Are you talking about third or fourth wave feminism? There is an interesting take in the book Gender Trouble. I’m surprised you’re interested in women’s sports. Did you catch the US Women’s Soccer match? I missed it but got the gist from my guy friend. Personally, I’m a huge fan of roller derby. They’ve fully accept trans people. Love Suzy Hotrod. She’s such a badass.
My cousin actually plays roller derby, which is pretty cool.
And yeah, I’m interested. I watched a lot of the women’s World Cup this year, though I rarely watch pro soccer here in the US. I’ll occasionally watch a WNBA game (was super proud when my team the Seattle Storm won the championship), but I haven’t for years (I don’t watch much men’s sports either). I love women’s volleyball though, so I’ll watch it when I notice it’s on (also like watching lacrosse). I’m not a fan of women’s hockey though, not sure why.
As for which wave of feminism, I’m honestly not sure. I don’t consider myself a feminist so I don’t keep up on it, though I certainly support some of the less crazy proposals (e.g. equal pay, longer parental leave, etc). My wife considers herself feminist-lite, and I work with a few women who probably consider themselves feminists (though we rarely talk politics). I personally just prefer more equality and fewer top down rules and don’t really associate with any political movement (I’m registered Libertarian mostly to pump registration numbers for third parties).