not all functionality is available as-is. You need to install a cloud connected app.
a cloud connection is not per se one direction. It is more than possible, the people operating this cloud (for Bosch) have the means (read: api) to connect back into your network via the hardware.
As long as the firmware of the dishwasher isn’t audited by third parties (or even better: open source), who knows what it is able to do in your network?
And all of this is not necessary, before the cloud, dishwashers worked fine too.
Dishwashers worked fine as electromechanical devices too. This is all fucking nuts. Mine blew up recently (electromechanical and probably 30 at this point) and I’ll be replacing it with one a family member no longer needs. When it gives up the ghost and if I’ve cleared some garage space by then, I’m minded to take it apart and see how hard it is to reverse engineer the damn thing.
@BeardedGingerWonder@BOFH666 always worth googling around for the Service Manual rather than User Manual for those things. And YouTube. Probably find the correct order in which to take it apart without too many curses.
The one way issue is very easily solved (isolated network), and on my model at least, all functionality is available. The app gives more, but everything I need is available on the buttons if I need it.
I’m glad you enjoy your home connect. A dishwasher shouldn’t need an internet connection to function. Period. Full stop.
“Just put it on an isolated network” is ridiculous advice, when there shouldn’t even be a need.
Even if you assume there are no vulnerabilities to find, even if you assume their administrators are never evil, the only reason to require cloud service is to invade my privacy and collect data.
That’s it. They’re selling your data. Maybe you are fine with that. We are not.
My dishwasher is completely fine without the cloud. Period. Full stop.
There is no need to put it on the network, but if you want to, and are paranoid, you can connect it to an isolated network. If you dont want to, dont, and the dishwasher will work.
There are valid use cases for the networking, beyond data collection, if you dont like it, dont use it. I do like it, and I’d rather support companies that do provide first party homeassistant support.
Removing buttons definitely sucks. In my case, its a built in dishwasher, so space is already limited for buttons, and all the ones I need are there. So the cloud is 100% value add. I’d hate it as well if the app was my only choice for a feature.
But as I already explained, that’s not true. They gave you the illusion of value add by removing features. Look at your exact model, built in, from 3 years ago. It has buttons for half load, delay and delicate. It’s easier to push a button than find your phone and start the app. If your Internet is temporarily down, you don’t have those features.
If the app was used for additional features, I’d agree. But they removed features to give the illusion of value add.
I think its a matter of perspective though. I have all the physical buttons I need, and even ones I dont need, so im happy. For you, yours doesn’t have all the functions you need, so obviously your not happy.
Both versions have delay, but I did lose half load and delicate. Gained some other programs though, but those aren’t useful. Funnily enough, neither version has a dedicated rinse.
Series 6 Integrated incase anyone else is interested:
The point here is:
You might take a good look at this work.
As long as the firmware of the dishwasher isn’t audited by third parties (or even better: open source), who knows what it is able to do in your network?
And all of this is not necessary, before the cloud, dishwashers worked fine too.
I will be looking for cheap dishwashers when we need a new one, that don’t even know what the internet is.
Or making a shit appliances network, all the WiFi crap can live on that
Dishwashers worked fine as electromechanical devices too. This is all fucking nuts. Mine blew up recently (electromechanical and probably 30 at this point) and I’ll be replacing it with one a family member no longer needs. When it gives up the ghost and if I’ve cleared some garage space by then, I’m minded to take it apart and see how hard it is to reverse engineer the damn thing.
@BeardedGingerWonder @BOFH666 always worth googling around for the Service Manual rather than User Manual for those things. And YouTube. Probably find the correct order in which to take it apart without too many curses.
Good advice, thanks! I took a washing machine apart the hard way a few years ago, wish I’d been more minded to figure out the circuit back then too.
The one way issue is very easily solved (isolated network), and on my model at least, all functionality is available. The app gives more, but everything I need is available on the buttons if I need it.
This is pathetic.
I’m glad you enjoy your home connect. A dishwasher shouldn’t need an internet connection to function. Period. Full stop.
“Just put it on an isolated network” is ridiculous advice, when there shouldn’t even be a need.
Even if you assume there are no vulnerabilities to find, even if you assume their administrators are never evil, the only reason to require cloud service is to invade my privacy and collect data.
That’s it. They’re selling your data. Maybe you are fine with that. We are not.
No need for name calling.
My dishwasher is completely fine without the cloud. Period. Full stop.
There is no need to put it on the network, but if you want to, and are paranoid, you can connect it to an isolated network. If you dont want to, dont, and the dishwasher will work.
There are valid use cases for the networking, beyond data collection, if you dont like it, dont use it. I do like it, and I’d rather support companies that do provide first party homeassistant support.
Even in my very high end Bosch ($1800 one), they removed buttons from their older version and put it into their revenue extraction cloud.
The exact same model from the previous year had a “half load button”. The new one requires you to register with their cloud service and use the app.
So the app only appears to give more because they removed features from the previous version.
Removing buttons definitely sucks. In my case, its a built in dishwasher, so space is already limited for buttons, and all the ones I need are there. So the cloud is 100% value add. I’d hate it as well if the app was my only choice for a feature.
But as I already explained, that’s not true. They gave you the illusion of value add by removing features. Look at your exact model, built in, from 3 years ago. It has buttons for half load, delay and delicate. It’s easier to push a button than find your phone and start the app. If your Internet is temporarily down, you don’t have those features.
If the app was used for additional features, I’d agree. But they removed features to give the illusion of value add.
I think its a matter of perspective though. I have all the physical buttons I need, and even ones I dont need, so im happy. For you, yours doesn’t have all the functions you need, so obviously your not happy.
Both versions have delay, but I did lose half load and delicate. Gained some other programs though, but those aren’t useful. Funnily enough, neither version has a dedicated rinse.
Series 6 Integrated incase anyone else is interested: