I’m gonna need some names because I only recognize like, two.
Going from lawful to chaotic, good to evil, we have:
- Gecko (Firefox, Seamonkey, and derivatives)
- Servo
- Libweb (Ladybird)
- Links2 (as well as ELinks and other forks)
- WebKit (used in a lot of stuff, namely Safari and GNOME Web)
- Goanna (Pale Moon and Basilisk)
- QtWebEngine (Konqueror, Falkon, and qutebrowser)
- Blink (Chromium, Brave, and derivatives)
- Trident (Internet Explorer, old versions of Maxthon, old versions of Avant, and any homemade browser created with Visual Studio).
(until they get a new lead dev, Ladybird is definitely not any type of “Good”)
100%, this is either uninformed or some apologia
What’s going on? I’ve seen this new browser engine referenced recently a decent bit but I have no info beyond ‘it’s new and exists’.
the lead dev is a freeze peach absolutist. he’s said some ignorant shit about trans people and when people said “hey, let’s adjust this language” he was like “let’s not get political”
That’s unfortunate :(
Is this really the hill you want to die on and rather have a Chromium monopoly?
the ladybird dev wants to work with people who want me dead. so. yeah, fuck him. mozilla ain’t great, but they’re the least dangerous engine builders right now. servo would be a better engine for us to rally around, but everyone would rather talk about the less mature, more fascist accepting, project.
nazis are bad. that’s the hill i’m willing to die on. this is bigger than a browser engine.
Mozilla has existed for over 20 years and Chromium still has a monopoly.
Yes, basic respect for people is far more important than any web browser
(The engine itself is fine though)
Is there any Servo-based browser? If not, it should be called Serval.
Where does Dillo fit into this?
Its got cookies disabled by default, no support for JavaScript, and only partial support for CSS. Just as god intended.
Same box as Links, I think; or maybe the same box as Servo or Ladybird would fit better…
Huh, I didn’t know MSHTML as used in IE was also called Trident. I thought Trident was specifically early Edge before they switched to Blink.
The Edge engine before Blink was called “EdgeHTML”.
Usually a Firefox guy but gonna give GNOME web an install for shiggles since I remember safari being fun to play with back in my teenage “hacker” days.
Also a quick cliff notes on what each is would be greatly appreciated
I only recognize the Chromium icon…
These are browser engines, or at least software for rendering HTML but not necessarily the actual browser. I don’t know them all, but top left, Gecko, is the engine for Mozilla, center is Web Kit for Safari, bottom center is Chromium for Chrome, Brave, Edge, etc., and bottom right is Trident, the old engine for Microsoft Internet Explorer.
what’s the difference between the engine and the browser itself? is it similar to the Linux kernel vs the Debian user space?
The engine makes it so HTML, CSS, JavaScript etc. are downloaded and turned into pixels you can look at. The browser embeds an engine for that purpose, but then also has a URL bar, tabs, bookmarks, a history feature and so on.
Pretty much.
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links2 is middle right: it turns a terminal into a web browser
These are browser engines, or at least software for rendering HTML but not necessarily the actual browser.
That’s why this post makes no sense. There’s no “evil” rendering engine. They should be judged by technical parameters.
Ladybird is certainly interesting to watch, it’s improving quite quickly.
I know people on here hate it because of one (admittedly not at all nice) gender issue in the codes comments but like… seriously?
Any details on that comment? Curious…
I’ll give my take on it. Something many fail to grasp is that it’s not about a singular thing, you need to look at the context. Let’s go through some of it:
- Andreas Kling, lead developer of (now-)Ladybird, rejects PR that changes “he” to “they” in documentation.
- This is the most frequently mentioned example of Andreas’ issues.
- The “he” in question referred to any user, where “they” is already commonly used instead by everything from companies, to news, to the Linux Kernel docs (an arguably much more important software project).
- Andreas’ exact words: “This project is not an appropriate arena to advertise your personal politics.”
- This code was eventually merged 3 years laters in a different PR, this time described as “Grammar fixes” (it changes even more pronouns to gender neutral than the original did).
- This PR was merged two hours after its creation and, coincidentally, around a month after Andreas announced his stepping down from the project.
- An unrelated post by the contributor, same day.
- Someone got his attention and tried to explain to him why that’s not cool; he doubled down, assuming the worst from the original contributor.
- Andreas Kling likes interacting with far-right, queerphobic, or otherwise controversial persons.
- Here’s him calling Brendan Eich, known homophobe, kicked out of Mozilla for… being a homophobe, now CEO of the foremost crypto browser, infamous for its bravery and attracting like-minded fans, “Senpai.”
- A far more impressive man than Andreas will ever be.
- Brendan’s great …Also shouldn’t have decried him in the past for being a homophobe (he did to fit in).
- Memeing about Brendan Eich’s secret to success.
- Here’s him welcoming Vaxry, infamous for the toxic community of his hyprland project to the point of being kicked out of the freedesktop.org project. He’s also on record saying “I do believe there could be arguments to sway my opinion towards genocide”. There is a print of this, somewhere. I will find it and put it here.
- Here’s him doing a talk with Bryan Lunduke, tech’s premier transphobe anti-DEI, anti-Woke conspiracy theorist with a classic far-right victim-complex.
- Trudging through Bryan’s slop wears on the mind, but here’s another example of him being ridiculous. Highlight of the article: “There are multiple Software and Computer organizations which have declared their support for the Trans fetish over the last few years…”
- Read anything by Bryan, then look into what he’s talking about. There are at least as many examples, as there are times Bryan has touched upon LGBT topics or linux in recent years.
- Here’s relatively prominent KDE developer Niccolò’s hour long video detailing how Bryan is a horrible, lying “journalist,” and how people need to stop giving him a stage.
- Trudging through Bryan’s slop wears on the mind, but here’s another example of him being ridiculous. Highlight of the article: “There are multiple Software and Computer organizations which have declared their support for the Trans fetish over the last few years…”
- He also often interacts with other various degrees of right-leaning users on twitter, a platform he describes as full of positive energy, unlike Mastodon.
- Here’s him calling Brendan Eich, known homophobe, kicked out of Mozilla for… being a homophobe, now CEO of the foremost crypto browser, infamous for its bravery and attracting like-minded fans, “Senpai.”
- Other funny things about Andreas that could be irrelevant in isolation but… look at all of this.
- Thinks the left doesn’t contribute to Open Source. No idea how he measured lurkers’ political leanings.
- Self-described centrist/apolitical.
Would I look at that PR and say I’m not touching Andreas with a ten-foot pole? Maybe that’s excessive. Would I ignore all the rest and say he’s just misunderstood? Hell no. For all its issues, I do hope Ladybird succeeds as a new browser engine because the internet needs more of those. But I’m not touching or otherwise supporting it unless Andreas gets his shit sorted.
Oh wow… He seeks to be ant alt right in disguise. God damn it.
I honestly can’t tell if there’s a disguise. Maybe there isn’t! He seems to genuinely and stubbornly believe in the apolitical-centrist stuff, which you wouldn’t think him capable of since he’s so intelligent when it comes to programming… but programming intelligence is not necessarily applicable anywhere else.
Unfortunately—99.999% of the time—“apolitical” just means “I haven’t taken the time to consider my deeply held values and how they show through in my day-to-day life and I want to stop hearing from people who challenge my worldview,” not “I would like to not have this space devolve into discussions about governance nor economics” (which is also a political statement when you consider it’s a community leader saying no one is allowed to question how they govern the community).
E.g. why the fuck are pronouns “political”? Just because certain pundits have vilified anyone who uses less common ones to refer to themself? That just means any topic is potentially political, and all it takes is some asshole making the community you and your loved ones belong to part of their political agenda for your PR to be dismissed. “Sorry, that kind of usecase is common among Straight White Males™, and I don’t want this project to be made unnecessarily political.”
Some people have no self-reflection, and it shows when they say shit like this. Only a matter of time before Kling claims people calling him out for being rightwing “pushed” him into the rightwing (because he realized the values he aleady held aligned with theirs, but lets conveniently forget to mention that part).
So there’s no issue with Andreas, just some people he’s interacted with before?
It’s great to hear he doesn’t partake in dehumanising others for their past behaviour/statements :)
I refuse to believe a reasonable, healthy mind sees someone cheering for queerphobes and thinks there’s nothing wrong with that. “He’s just interacting, he doesn’t do the bad things” has to be the most insane or trollish response to this, because it shows you don’t understand or outright don’t care about how this harms people.
By that absurd logic, if I like interacting with Nazis on the daily it’s fine, so long as I don’t actually pull the trigger on the jews myself. When people call me out, I’ll just say I’m apolitical. That’s how Andreas describes himself, by the way. Apolitical.
I’m not calling Andreas an outright Nazi, to be extra clear. If I had to take a guess, I’d say he’s a right leaning “thinks he’s a centrist and apolitical” person who doesn’t see the harm in many of the things he supports or is otherwise sheltered from them. This seems to be a trend among self-described centrists.
What cheering?
Are you trying to convince me that making a neutral meme about a shitty person’s success is equatable to supporting/being a nazi?Maybe I’m the odd one out, and do tell me if you think that’s the case, but when I can, I don’t support homophobes with my wallet nor my words.
It’s like voting with your wallet, but for free. Image is a tool, just like capital, and I feel that contributing to theirs is a form of (albeit minor) support. Maybe I should’ve used supporting, or another word. Point is, Andreas does that, and I think it’s because he likes Brendan. Thinks he’s great, shouldn’t have joined the people decrying him for being a homophobe.
People who care about LGBT folks don’t usually like homophobes, and aren’t usually against decrying them. I don’t think this is a good sign for Andreas. That’s the kind of thing that you need to keep in mind when you see that first PR.
Are you trying to convince me that making a neutral meme about a shitty person’s success is equatable to supporting/being a nazi?
No, I tried to make that clear. I actually don’t get how you read it that way. Also, the meme isn’t neutral when you consider how he views Eich, just like it isn’t originally neutral towards Gaben and Steam when gamers use it.
The guy literally created javascript. It shouldn’t be a surprise that somebody who’s developing a web browser holds some amount of respect for him.
We could argue about this all day, but neither of us are Andreas, so we shouldn’t be assuming his beliefs based on a few interactions on social media.
None of this should get in the way of the web browser’s success anyway, because it’s not relevant to the project.
The issue is that he’s politically polarized into believing that the word “they” is inherently “political.”
It’s great to hear he doesn’t partake in dehumanising others for their past behaviour/statements
-
Calling someone out for doing shitty things isn’t “dehumanizing,” you fucking disingenuous hagfish.
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All documented behavior is necessarily in the past. Do you mean we must assume he’s changed based on no evidence? Or is their some magical timeframe beyond which certain beliefs must have changed?
If you’re feeling attacked by people calling out Andreas Kling and Brendan Eich for their irrational prejudice against people who aren’t straight and cis… Good! It means you have enough self-awareness to realize you fit that category too, so now you have the option to change that. Or you already have made that change, but still feel guilty about who you used to be—in which case I, a LGBT, give you permission to stop feeling guilty and move on with your life! Just stop jumping to defend assholes with paperthin excuses that sounded good when they were brought up in their “apolitical” echochambers
If you read the commit, you would see it was referring to a built-in non-human account.
In no way did he assume the gender of any people, so who cares if he referred to a built-in account of his operaring system as ‘he’ instead of ‘they’?
A more accurate description would have been ‘it’.As somebody who also identifies as LGBT, I don’t want or need your permission to feel anything.
I don’t feel guilty for not participating in the cancel culture of the internet.I did read the commit, and I loved the part where Andreas Kling said:
This project is not an appropriate arena to advertise your personal politics.
As his reason for dismissing it. Because the commiter was trying to use idiomatic language for a builtin account. But it must be “politics” because pronouns amirite.
That also ignores all the other points brought up about his questionable values.
I don’t feel guilty for not participating in the cancel culture of the internet.
There is no such thing as cancel culture. This is what the Free Marketplace of ideas allows: “your ideas are shit and I won’t support you and I will let others know.” That’s not “cancel culture,” that’s just how society fucking deals with toxic ideas that harm communities.
As somebody who also identifies as LGBT
Then put the bare fucking minimum into acting like you’re part of a marginalized community, and stop rushing to defend online chuds who support that marginalization from being critiqued. Seriously weird simp behavior.
Sure. Lets just ignore ladybird/serenity and the positive impact Andreas is making because he didn’t accept a commit that changed a pronoun for a system account on the operating system he wrote from a ‘he’ to a ‘they’.
And lets ignore that it’s been changed since. People ‘never’ change, so lets fuck up their entire career and public image for life.
Yeah no thanks.
If you think that comment outweighs all the positive impacts Andreas is making, that’s your prerogative. I’m not interested in holding everyone up to such high expectations.
If that makes me a simp in your eyes, so be it.
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So it’s not just the PR, it is also him interacting with “the wrong people”. Because it is so unthinkable to post about another browser developer while developing a browser regardless of politics. Idk anything about Andreas Kling, maybe he is a bad person, but the reasoning in your comment seems unhinged to me.
PS: Maybe off topic, but FDO reasoning for banning Vaxry is also wild. FDO admits he never broke the CoC on their platforms, then the CoC enforcement sends him a threatening email demanding he moderates his community differently and when he pushes back and says he will ignore this person sending unsolicited threatening emails, that is a reason to ban him. Because somehow this unsolicited threatening email is somehow considered part of FDO. Literally manufacturing a cause…
I’m baffled by your comment.
Read again, it’s not just interacting, he’s praising, promoting, and gladly and voluntarily engaging with these people. Not “the wrong people.” Say it with me: far-right misinformation propagandists, queerphobes, a genocide defender. Not “wrong”, with scare quotes, but actually shitty people. And I’m not even done with that comment.
About your ridiculous defense of vaxry, I’m going to be straight with you: violating CoC or not is irrelevant. If you manage a community that toxic, don’t see anything wrong with it, and don’t want to do anything about it, it is normal to want nothing to do with you. No magical binding social contract is necessary for this—if you suck, people don’t want to deal with you.
Collaborating in FDO isn’t a natural right, it’s a privilege earned by contributing. Vaxry made people not want to be there. Vaxry was detracting.
Your entire reply reeks of “it’s not that bad,” which to me reads as “I don’t think those things are bad” and sincerely makes me not want to talk with you further if that’s truly the case.
EDIT: So, I checked your profile, and you have a giant comment thread on things you dislike about DEI, and you also do mental gymnastics to defend the right. Cool, cool. And a comment equivalating “what if kamala did the sieg hail” to the question “what if elon did it?”
First off, I don’t know anything about Vaxry or the Hyperland community, so I am definitely not defending him or implying it is not bad or anything of the sorts. I am saying the public reasoning for the ban is manufactured BS, and I am pretty sure that is because it is hard to call yourself “free” anything if you want to police peoples behavior unrelated to your project.
If you think projects should do such policing, that’s fine. It even makes sense, if you ignore the potential for misuse. But they certainly shouldn’t advertise themselves as free. It’s the hypocrisy of trying to do both by manufacturing an excuse I am calling out.
As for the rest of what you write, I feel it all comes to the same unhinged idea that because someone is a bad person, everything they touch, create or any person engaging with them is also bad.
I dislike Brave, and it’s founder. Doesn’t mean everything Brave does is bad or can’t be promoted by me as good. If you choose to not do it for your personal beliefs, that is fine. But the idea that I am not allowed to praise Brave browser features or other actions because of something unrelated its founder did or said is ridiculous.
EDIT: Regarding your edit, yes. I criticize parts of DEI or stupid anti-Trump arguments. That’s the whole point. Stupid arguments are stupid even if a good person is making them and good arguments are good, even if evil person like Trump makes them. Parts of DEI can be bad, even though discrimination is also bad. The world is not black and white.
EDIT2: Here is my post on DEI if anyone wants to read it and decide for themselves whether it is reasonable criticism or not.
You’re defending him—intentionally or not—because you’re giving legitimacy to the idea that, somehow, the party that kicked him out is in the wrong, not the guy that defends genocide. It’s likely there would be complaints regardless of their official reasoning, because Vaxry’s problem is beyond reason.
I feel it all comes to the same unhinged idea that because someone is a bad person, everything they touch, create or any person engaging with them is also a bad person.
Not at all? There’s a chance I edited my comment after you replied. I’ve made many edits, and I’m not exactly keeping track. Please reread the end of it:
For all its issues, I do hope Ladybird succeeds as a new browser engine because the internet needs more of those. But I’m not touching or otherwise supporting it unless they get their shit sorted.
I hope the project succeeds, that it helps the internet. Doesn’t mean I must like or support the person behind it, specially when they’re acting this way. I believe there are others like me. I would like them to be informed as well.
The idea that I am not allowed to praise Brave browser features because of something unrelated its founder did is ridiculous.
Good news: I never said that. Go on, praise Ladybird. Someone asked about details on “Andreas’ gender issue,” I replied with details. Because I’m tired of people defending it in isolation, I brought more details. Any criticism is of Andreas actions, based on Andreas’ own actions.
You’re defending him—intentionally or not—because you’re giving legitimacy to the idea that, somehow, the party that kicked him out is in the wrong.
Yeah, I am tired of this shit. My entire comment repeatedly spells out that criticizing one party does not mean supporting the other. Both FDO and Vaxry can be in the wrong. If you can’t even comprehend that, there is nothing else to talk about.
- Andreas Kling, lead developer of (now-)Ladybird, rejects PR that changes “he” to “they” in documentation.
guilty until proven innocent, for it is better that the innocent are condemed than for a guilty man go free. And should a trial be warranted, it shall be conducted not by jury, but by a tribunal of like-minded individuals.
they’re live the perfect anti-libral.
I know people on here hate it because of one (admittedly not at all nice) gender issue in the codes comments but like… seriously?
I actually recently had a discussion about this very issue and came to see it as a case of poor communication, rather than anything mean-spirited on the devs’ part.
Why is QtWebEngine considered evil?
It’s effectively Chromium.
It’s the other way around. KHTML begat WebKit and Blink, then we got QtWeb.
Wdym chromium is open-source
Blink has the dominant market share, though, and by a long way. It’s almost a monoculture.
Gecko has almost as big share
Idk man:
Isn’t it chrome based?
Chrome and Chromium are two very different things.
I know.
I didn’t know that
It has much less features than Gecko or Blink
I guess thats a shame, but not evil
chaotic good? ladybird? the browser by devs that refuse to use your pronouns?
People are losing their shit, calling for boycotts, and throwing around accusations of transphobia over comments in the source code and a single line of documentation? Seriously? And brigading the developer three years after the fact‽ I was ready to write off Ladybird, but damn, this was taken way out of proportion.
I’m all in for equal treatment, but people need to get a perspective. Such an extreme reaction will ultimately hurt the cause they’re trying to advocate for. Getting bent out of shape and publicly brigading something for every perceived slight, every time someone’s feelings are hurt, or can’t get their way, will get them – and the demographic or movement they represent – labelled as undesirable.
A single line of documentation? How about looking into some context? Hurt feelings my ass, Andreas isn’t some innocent, silly little guy who never does anything questionable.
And which cause exactly are you talking about? Because I don’t know about you, but I’ll stand for real, marginalized people over lines of code on a screen any day.
I’ve checked out the PR, and it does look bad. But I’d like to see a justification. The comment seems blatantly transphobic/misogynistic. Seems like you’re saying that my understanding is extreme. How could yours be refuted?
Brigading was clearly not justified, but as per my apparently extreme opinions, so isn’t the original reply?
Brigading was definitely not a justified act. That was wrong and extreme, and shouldn’t have been done. However, this still doesn’t excuse the closing reply to the PR.
People are losing their shit … over comments in the source code and a single line of documentation?
This is quite ironic, considering the first person in the PR seems to be the person who closed the issue.
This is why I hate the FOSS community. Everyone freaks out and cries wolf the second a platform doesn’t share their political opinion, even if it’s completely irrelevant to privacy or FOSS.
Personally, I’d want my software to value basic human decency, no matter how good the code is. If the developer lashes out at an inclusive change in a single line of documentation, I’m not using that browser even if it could solve my taxes.
This is just my take though, and if you want to use the browser, then go for it.
Where do you draw the line though? I feel like that’s a slippery slope.
I’m not sure I understood; a line for what?
I’ll try to answer based on what I think you meant: if there is a software with a person with undesirable views in control of it, I’d try to boycott that software if feasible.
I don’t think performative politics is a FOSS community problem. It’s more of an whole Internet problem.
It’s really bad on lemmy and reddit.
Reddit has much bigger problems, like unfair moderation, and a lot of creepy people
Foss certainly aligns better with left-wing philosophies, i don’t think far-right need to be widely accepted in these communities
Calling someone far-right for not wanting to implement a useless pronouns feature is a bit wild.
Not necessarily far right, but that implies they might be far right. i think if someone is cis female, her, if cis male then he, if other, they (unless something else is explicitly stated). I don’t think it really hurts anyone to call them the way they wish, but rightists usually do
let me provide you an analogy to what you’re saying.
“The US appeals to right wing philosophies so the left doesn’t need to be accepted”
what do you think?
Just like what a rightist would say. Also 2 “people” downvoting my comment is wild
This is not about “the FOSS community”. It doesn’t matter if you developed closed-source or open-source, doesn’t matter if you license your software with AGPL or NULA, if you make a comment that’s seemingly transphobic/misogynistic, people WILL freak out.
The reason you might see this occur more frequently in open-source spaces could be sue to the fact that issue trackers and PRs provide much less filtered responses than corporate social media accounts and blogs.
Obviously the FOSS community has a heavy left wing bias. I personally haven’t heard anything about Proton or Ladybird being controversial outside of Lemmy and Reddit. Clearly It’s not just about transphobia and sexism (which I think is an overreaction). A lot of people in the FOSS community left Proton just because of one positive tweet about Trump (from an Asian immigrant living in Switzerland). I think it’s really unhealthy for the FOSS community to jump ship the second a platform doesn’t share their political opinions.
not sure how exactly I’m losing my shit? I posted a single link, and let people decide for themselves, if your fine with supporting sexist people then nobody is stopping you.
and personally I don’t care if you think I’m hurting my cause, people who get this butthurt over some simple words and basic respect, simply are not the kind of people who I want to be around anyways.
I worded that poorly. The “you” was plural (I want the singular “thou” back) and meant to refer to the people who are losing their shit, not any one individual.
(edit) I also just want to point out that accusing me of being a sexist sympathizer and two hours later posting this shit is real funny.
Should have said “yous guyses”
I dont really want to ruin your mood but when hundreds of people are working on a project, there will be always individuals that are not so nice and go personal on others
Andrew is not just “any individual”. He’s one of the lead developers of Ladybird, and the co-founder of the Ladybird 501©(3) nonprofit.
Oh what the fuck, dev came off like a fucking ass to a minor suggestion.
Old news - fix is already in production Proof
Please check your sources :)
The fact that someone else fixed the issue doesn’t really excuse the absolutely unacceptable original response to a very reasonable request.
I’m much more interested in seeing an apology, or any sort of indication that the dev understands how disrespectful they were.
Lmao, a weird choice of a hill to die on. Although, given I’ve seen ppl refer to a user account as “he” exactly 0 times before that, I suspect the dev may speak smth like French natively, where everything is either male or female.
That said, i’d rather use “it” instead of “they”, given an account (and anon one at that) is not a person.
I’m fairly certain the main dev is swedish
Huh, checked out their noun genders, and those are quite interesting: 2 genders, but common and neuter instead of masculine and feminine. So out goes that theory
Imagine explaining gendering to a person used to ise a language where it isn’t existing 🤔 of course, it seems unnecessary for that person
Or have I understood that wrong?
Hungarian language for example is completly genderless. 2 pronouns are used: ő (person, more intelligent animals), ez/az (depending on the first letter) (objects, less intelligent animals)
🤯this is awesome
Not exactly. In English, stuff that’s not a person is of neutral gender, i.e. just “it” (unless the speaker has an affection towards it, then it’s usually a “she”). In other languages stuff also has “genders”, like “la chambre” (the French* for “a room”) is a “she”.
So, my initial guess was that the dev natively speaks some language, where a user is a “he”, and ppl don’t have a concept of a neutral gender. But in case of Swedish
there are 2 variants of “it” for things[edit: there’s “it” and “they”], so it seems incorrect.* I’m using French instead of, for example, Russian here due to it not having a neutral gender, while Russian has “it” and something akin to “they” (like “задира”, the Russian for a bully). Although, I may be wrong here, since I’ve started learning French quite recently, and may’ve missed smth.
Thank you very much for explaining 😃 I understand it now.
+it is basically unusable yet
Foss community is so insufferable and toxic
can you be more specific about what part of the community is toxic?
Like the comment I replied to. I understand calling people out but that is such an irrelevant topic to the discussion.
It’s not always sunshine and rainbows but I don’t see the need to whine about every little thing.
Also note that I’m being fair here. Majority people who are not into foss simply avoid it because of how often they see people bitching about said foss products. It’s just not a good look.
I mean I understand why you feel that way but if someone were to refer to me as a woman, as a cis guy I would take it as a sign of disrespect, so I feel more obliged to take the side of the people who are complaining. I feel it is somewhat relevant considering one of the projects mentioned is developed by the people in the link.
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Not always. In fact, 90% of it is mostly nice
I’m not sure I have a lot of faith in Servo but we are in need of anything better than Gecko. Ladybird is the new one on the block and we will see if it goes anywhere. I like that Ladybird it’s own web browser.
Same cause nowadays you have to rely on a for profit company for your browser engine.
I don’t have any issue as long as there are options and the company isn’t actively hostile.
true, if it was a company like suse,redhat who was for-profit and had a good browser engine then sure if its like google then maybe but for-profit companies are known to be problematic.
I think the key thing is to have checks and balances and or incentives so that a browser doesn’t become just a tool to sell stuff. For instance, I hear the Mullvad browser is pretty good. It isn’t independent for obvious reasons but the idea still applies.
alr
SuSE is problematic? As far as I know they released their system administration tools as open source without ever needing to, didn’t they? They’re for profit but seem to drive their profits on services rather selling software, as a good open source denizen. What am I missing?
I mean I was using suse as a example not saying they problematic like redhat (which had some controversy in the past ik)
Ladybird seems almost singularly focused on macOS development. They say that they intend to incrementally move from C++ to Swift
Swift is decent, one of the biggest .net (c#) people gave a talk at godotcon about whay he likes it better than c#
It works cross platform, it’s just developed by apple
khtml deserves to be in the gift to humanity category
Where’s KHTML? The O.G. GOAT.
Well that’s WebKit now
What the fuck? Safari is neutral???
That is Webkit, not Safari. Lots of things other than Safari use it.
Lots? Really?
Gnome’s browser uses it afaik
Also a lot of Android browsers iirc
Game consoles tend to have a webkit-based browser (ps3/4/5/vita, wiiu/3ds/switch).
All iOS browsers are webkit-based, due to apple’s restrictions.Blink is based on Webkit too
Right but they’re being treated as different things in this context.
Yeah, TBF it’s just a silly meme, but I also immediately didn’t agree with safari being listed as neutral lol
Fewer than Chromium, but lots compared to Servo.
WebKit is neutral. Remember the sheer amount if browsers using WebKitGTK, and even more that used to use QtWebKit.
I could name any of them. Gnome Web? I think that’s it.
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It’s been said before, but Ladybird (and their OS) are made by someone who’s two steps away from having a glorious TempleOS style mental collapse, so I will personally fight in the Mozilla trenches.
Info on this? He seems pretty reasonable from what I’ve seen of him.
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So your entire spiel is based on one interaction, extrapolated by… what, vibes? Feelings? Aren’t we supposed to be the objective and rational ones?
Webkit as well?
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Nevermind, I misread it and thought you called the code of Ladybird stupid.
Why is ladybird chaotic good when it’s not even out yet
Neither is Servo.
Chaotic good because it’s an entire (almost functional) engine built from scratch, and without any corporate backing.
And is developed by a bad person.
How so? I know literally nothing about ladybird
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Is there anything one could even install anymore based off of IE’s engine? That’d be a fun one to put on the old beater machine.
Aside from IE? Not much.
Both Blink and Gecko are equally good. Others suck
