- cross-posted to:
- politicalmemes@lemmy.world
- cross-posted to:
- politicalmemes@lemmy.world
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The Ratchet effect.
With this current trump slop, the democrats can shift farther right than they’ve ever been and gain tons of moderates and even conservatives who just feel sour on trump, and obviously they get the liberal moderates, because trump slop.
Republicans shift right by 10, dems shift right by 6 and seem progressive in comparison.
Billionaires continue getting richer, and we all get fucked. Eat, sleep, repeat.
Obama’s legacy:
- After winning the Nobel peace prize, he dropped an average of 30k bombs / year (80 per day) during his presidency, mostly on Muslim countries, 2, 3. In 2016 alone, dropped 26,171 bombs in the Middle East and North Africa, up 3000 from the previous year. The countries bombed include Syria, Iraq, Yemen, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Libya, and Somalia.
- Began a campaign of drone assassinations in the Middle East and Africa, in which 90% of those killed were not the intended targets, but innocent civilian bystanders, including women, children, and US citizens. 1. Drone strikes are used by the military and the CIA to hunt down and kill people the Obama administration has deemed — through secretive processes, without indictment or trial — worthy of execution. He authorized 10 times more drone strikes than George W Bush, 2. The Obama assassination program is detailed in the drone papers.
Biden’s legacy:
The democrats are a brutal, vicious, genocidal party.
Funny given his own acceptance speech…
So, going through that website almost every time I tried to look at the source it said 404 file missing.
Also, what’s up with the color scheme? If the information is damning enough already, stop with all the theatrics.
vote libertarian!
People from the global south watching american fighting over who is less evil never gets old.
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weakening the US state is a good thing in my book. The less organized the imperial core is the more breathing room there is for the rest of the world.
it’s not weakening; it’s reshuffling resources to prioritize china.
It does weakening it temporarily, institutions take time to get properly organized and function efficiently. Think of USAID, while not perfectly efficient it already functioned like an oiled machine, dismantling it to set up a new one will require more work to get it started than just keeping USAID going, with the added risk that the newer thing is not guaranteed to succeed.
agreed and what’s happening to usaid is fascinating; its resources are being reshuffled to cointelpro-ing american citizens … again
The democrats (just like US republicans) are a party of genocide:
Im not sure if you actually looked at the words on the meme or not, but it doesn’t say they’re “exactly the same” it says they’re less evil. Democrats teamed up with war criminal Dick Cheney for fucks sake, it’s like they are actively trying to make people not vote for them.
If someone I don’t like or interact with says they support me, that is not me “teaming up” with them.
They actively flaunted his endorsement, and brought his daughter on stage. Cheney is a man at least as evil as Putin, and if Putin was American, the Democrats would have brought him on stage too.
Dishonest to say only the things Trump has done but not look at the situation equally. Why not mentioned Biden’s reversal of Trump’s plan to withdraw US troops from Somalia?
Secondly, when was the first time you had heard of USAID? I find all these people love to say how many “lives it saves” while they also had only learned about it very recently. USAID was a tool of US neocolonialism designed to prevent countries in the global south from gaining sovereignty.
They are both the same and the last two months has only further confirmed that.
hey only 86 million people didn’t vote
This meme made sense in 2012, not when the Republican Party has decided to be the Anti-Democratic Party.
If anything Democrats have moved further to the right recently
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Union busting, lavish funding for genocide, corporate tax cuts, no healthcare plan, increased funding for police, pro-fracking, pro-drilling, 'tough on immigration ', etc etc
Did you reply to the wrong comment?
Literally all Democratic actions
Not three months ago Gaza had a death toll well past fifty thousand by the most conservative estimates, not to mention the huge amounts of women and children maimed, malnourished and the wholesale destruction of the entire strip’s infrastructure.
Did the republicans do that or did y’all deny reality so much in the pursuit of tHe mOsT iMpOrTanT ElEctiOn oF oUr LiFeTimE that you don’t know what fucking color the sky is unless you ask the DNC first.
The republicans are not diametrically opposed to the democrats, they’re just the same shit but more brash, and (with Trump at the helm) too fucking incompetent to not say the quiet part out loud, maybe because they know their base is so rabid on American fascism that dogwhistles aren’t enough anymore, they need a fucking trumpet.
Tankie thread.
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All of those things, Biden did too. Biden allowed Israel to do whatever they wanted and he increased aid to them during the height of the offensive against the Palestinian people.
Ao you’re on board with golden Trump statue instead of the strip then?
I’d rather there were an actual human in the white house (or there not be an USA at all) but since libs are so spineless I think it’ll take the complete collapse of the US economy to get y’all to stop treating politics like a fucking team sport. You could put Mussolini on the blue team and y’all would yell at everyone for not shutting up and vooooooting.
We’re almost there, thank fuck.
so you prefer trump and putin in power?
did the republicans do it? of course they did. the US has been funding israel for a long time.
See? Perfect example.
Without the republicans, Dems would have no one to hide behind when their many genocides are recounted.
so how does peace look to you? 1967 border?
Are you at all able to communicate with others without resorting to deflection and loaded questions?
simple enough questions but as you’re so busy campaigning against the dems you must be quite happy with trump?
I’d take some less evil, please.
Sorry. The Democrats sued less evil off the ballot.
I don’t understand why people who think this don’t advocate for ranked choice voting. Seems like it would solve this issue, right?
They won’t allow it because they’ll lose power with ranked choice.
It doesn’t. There are plenty of bourgeois democracies that don’t use FPTP for all their voting: Japan, Australia, South Korea for some of their elections. Doesn’t make a difference (except it might make the bribery a bit more expensive, since you have to buy off more political parties than just two).
The fundamental problem is capital standing above political power. If it does so, then no amount of alternative voting systems can fix the issue. Socialism is the only answer.
I do advocate for it, I’m a proud member of the Forward Party.
No, RCV wouldn’t. The fundamental problem of electoral politics being a game between factions pre-approved by the bourgeoisie won’t change, there are even safeguards preventing unwanted change that losing parties and government branches can pull in the rare event a worker party won.
It’s the perfect carrot, it won’t get passed nor would it change much.
Even if it would, how would it ever get passed when the people who would need to pass it are the ones who are only in office because the system works the way it currently does?
This is just a recurring theme I’ve found when talking with liberals. They like to think about and suggest all sorts of policy ideas as though all we’re missing are some smart ideas nobody has thought of. It’s one thing to say we should have this, but it’s another to have any idea of how it’d be possible to do. Since they have no actual analysis of the system, they’ll just turn around and tell you to vote or call your representative. “We should get money out of politics!” “Yeah, well we checked with the people giving us money and they said no. So…”
You have a few options for enacting ranked choice voting at the national level:
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Win hundreds, possibly thousands, of state-level House and Senate seats with the largest grass roots voter mobilization ever seen in the US to, a) enact legislation in all 50 states or b) ratify an amendment to the constitution, that mandates it.
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Kill enough republicans in a national civil war to make sure that when elections happen, there aren’t enough republicans left to win an election, then enact the above.
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Overthrow the entire US government in a much bloodier national coup and set up whatever government you want.
Kill enough republicans in a national civil war
And democrats, too. Don’t pretend they’re not just as responsible for keeping fptp voting, their party depends on it. If you don’t believe me, look into how coordinated the GOP and Democrats were when suing PSL and the Green party to keep them off several state ballots (and severely whittle down their grassroots funds with corporate-money lawfare). Spoiler: there was no overlap.
It’s one party, two wings.
It isn’t, but I suppose if you hang out in an echo chamber long enough you’ll believe anything.
What echo chamber are you talking about? Existing on the English-speaking internet at all is to be in a pro-US echo chamber, Leftists carving out little enclaves for themselves to discuss topics with other leftists doesn’t insulate them from the overwhelming majority of their existence.
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Imma be real as an European, we kinda have the same problem here even with better voting systems. You either vote for “nothing ever happens” parties or literal Russia funded reactionary nazis.
Relative to the other fully developed countries, a mainstream Democrat is a homeopathic liberal.
Scenario I’ve been playing with:
Suppose you are kidnapped by two people. They tell you that one of them will shoot you and then let you go, but you get to decide who shoots. Person A says he will shoot you in the head. Person B says he will shoot you in the shoulder. Which do you choose?
The more think about this the more I like it. Both persons are clearly awful and contributed to the situation. Both could offer better choices but refuse. Both are rather similar in outcomes. But one is clearly worse.
Is it rational to choose to be shot at all? Is it rational to not choose the better of two alternatives?
Libs can’t win in reality so they make shit up
In your hypothetical made up story, kill them both
This is a false dichotomy though. I’d argue the fact that “escape” doesn’t even cross your mind in this hypothetical scenario is damning.
Yes, we would all love to escape. That would be amazing
We are literally stuck with the 2 currently. No amount of posting on here is going to change. There is literally not enough people who care in this country right now to change it fully.
You can either have the 2 options
That’s literally the only options in the US.
Yes we would love ranked voting
Yes we would love better options
Yes we would love for a magical solution to come and save us
It’s not like that. Trump fans would literally never let that happen right now. And because democrats couldn’t get the votes by not being perfect it may never happen.
Wanting “to escape” is leaving the fucking country. And you’re free to fucking leave. But if you actually wanted to help, you needed to choose democrate to hopefully get the change you wanted in.
Now the only way you’ll get change is when everything crumbles, and who knows how many die
how about campaigning for other, more radical, revolutionary parties? just admit that you guys somehow grew to like being dipped in sht because who stuck you in this sht barrel told you guys there’s acid outside of it.
Campaigning for a better person left us with the shitty person. This is actually real life, not just the internet where we can hope it gets better
Bank robber. Get away driver.
Would be a good analogy.
Yes, the bank robber shot and killed the clerk.
But they are both bank robbers
Who is more evil? The one that does the act or the one that enables it?
The bank is more evil
If you don’t choose, then someone else chooses for you
Then the people who claim to love you choose for you and say that getting shot in the head would be better for you. Any attempt to convince them otherwise is met with absolute disbelief.
Seems OG Lemmy hardcore dems have been overrun by critically thinking individuals.
I don’t like this meme
Wow
I think this meme might spur people to be less likely to vote democrat. If the midterms still exist in a year, I want the Democrats to win them so Trump can’t keep destroying America so quickly.
Fucking two months in is too close to the election to criticize Democrats…
Liberals really are a parody of themselves
What problem do you have with the evil empire being destroyed?
They’re destroying the parts that keep good people alive first and profiting off the destruction.
USAID was a part that murders and enslaves good people
The Democrats aren’t resisting Trump now, why would they after winning the midterms? Both parties are on the same team and neither represent the people.
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What do you mean Trump supporter? Do you think every Leftist is a secret Republican for being critical of the DNC as well as GOP?
I said I don’t want to argue with you. Quit trying to sealion me into an argument.
I opened the convo with a reasonable question, then you pivoted to slandering me as a Trump supporter with no backing, and now are accusing me of sealioning. Forgive me for calling your behavior out. Don’t respond if you don’t want to, but don’t complain when people call you out either.
It literally says that it’s important to vote…
Well I think people are bad at reading.
If the vast majority of Americans believed the Democrats to be less evil, the Democrats would have 90% of the vote. If that were the case, the Republicans would move ever further left, perhaps even overtaking the Democrats, until they get a chance at winning again.
The reason the parties are right wing is because the voters are right wing.
That’s why we need a communist revolution where everyone will be a happy little comrade
The reason that people don’t vote Democrats is the same reason that people won’t join your revolution.
If you found enough people to support a revolution, that’d mean you have enough people to change the system by simple voting.
The reason the parties are right wing is because the voters are right wing.
You’re completely right, the working class of the imperial core is reactionary by definition, always been and always will be.
Hopefully the Empire will whither and die, and a newly revolutionary working class can arise and organize from its ashes.
I have a problem with that phrasing. The empire will not die by itself, it has to be killed.
I can’t think of any empire or state, no matter how frail, that just collapsed under its own weight.
I think it’s both. Empire weakens its foundations, then the weakest links in the chain break off, heightening contradictions at play. Empire has to be killed, but this process begins because of Imperialism itself. No matter who pulls the trigger, the US will only have itself to blame for its own downfall.
I could very well be wrong, I’m still a baby ML and am starting to read Hudson’s Super-Imperialism to see how the US empire functions in the modern day, it isn’t the same as Imperialism in Lenin’s time, but I believe Lenin to be correct still in that Imperialism begets its own demise through inciting others against it.
The death of an empire is the qualitative development after a huge sum of quantitative changes, but you still need something to trigger the qualitative change, it won’t happen by itself.
Think of Syria, the fall of Assad happened due to the collective sum of erosion of the economy, the army, the people, etc, but still it was ultimately triggered by the terrorist HTS attack. If that event didn’t happen, Assad would still be in Syria.
People need to organize to kill the empire, not pray for it to fall under its own weight.
100% agreed, I understand what you mean and why you took issue with my framing. The shift from quantitative build-up to qualitative collapse of the US Empire still requires the jump from quantitative to qualitative itself, I agree. If I didn’t, I don’t think I could still be considered a Marxist, haha. Thanks!
We will crush the evil empire from the outside
The system will never give us the tools needed to dismantle it my dude
That’s not actually how electoral politics works. The two major parties are right wing because that’s what the bourgeoisie allows the US to pick from, not because those policies are genuinely popular. Bernie, for example, had policies more supported by both republican and democrat voters than either other candidate. Policies like Medicare for All are overwhelmingly popular.
Revolution isn’t won at the ballot box because the electoral system is designed from the outset to only allow pre-approved candidates and parties. Revolution comes from organizing, hence why in areas with stronger union presence government policy is usually more pro-worker, they must capitulate.
Revolution, ie the overthrow of the state, has happened many times before throughout the world and will happen many times more as long as it remains the only actual vector for change.
If left wing policies were truly more popular, why didn’t the Democrats win? The voters didn’t get Bernie, so if you can’t get your ideal option, you instead take the worse of the two remaining ones? Even if voters were only voting for damage reduction, they’d still vote Democrat in that case.
But the Democrats didn’t win. The voters don’t want damage reduction. The voters want damage.
Multiple reasons.
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Many people are dissillusioned by the non-impactful electoral system and thus don’t vote
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Democrats didn’t front anything remotely resembling left policies, but instead committed to being “adult” caretakers of Imperialism instead of nakedly like the Republicans promised
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Genocide became a source of alienation when it was out in the open, rather than kept hush-hush
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The American Proletariat is, ultimately, reactionary, due to being beneficiaries of Imperialism
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So close…
