Should people get preferential treatment because they have kids? - eviltoast

One thing really annoying that I’ve noticed working in the white collar industry is that some people get a free pass all the time on important things, just because they have kids. For example, in a different team who often has to step away during business hours and becomes unreachable, simply because they have kids. There’s always some sort of excuse with them. Have to go pick him up from the bus stop, have to go pick him up from school because they got in trouble, dance recital during the middle of the day, always something. But when it comes to ordinary normal people who don’t have kids, it feels like there’s a lot more scrutiny. Why do you need a doctor’s appointment in the middle of the day? Why do you need to go pick up a prescription at lunch time, like why can’t you work through lunch?

But also, when it comes to employment, it feels like there’s a lot of preferential treatment for people with children. Oh that person has kids / children! They need the job a lot more. They have a little girl! Clearly they need it more than the the person who has a disabled spouse, because kids are way more important than an adult dependent! We can’t fire this person, they have kids! Let’s choose someone who doesn’t have a family. Like, stuff like this. Why is there so much preferential treatment to people who have children? Is this some sort of utilitarian thing? The least number of people affected?

    • themeatbridge@lemmy.world
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      5 minutes ago

      Exactly this. If you need to step away, take care of something, or just need a break, that ought to be entirely acceptable.

      The reason it seems like parents “get away with it” is because they push limits, because they have a priority higher than anything else related to employment. I have to go get those kids. Is that report urgent? Cool, I’ll get to it as soon as the literal humans whose lives are depending on me for basic survival are safe at home. Are you going to fire me for parenting? Because that doesn’t change my priorities.

  • Pika@sh.itjust.works
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    58 minutes ago

    My opinion on this, it fully depends.

    I fully agree that people should be empathetic to people with kids because there are events that are outside of their control. This being said I don’t think they should be sympathetic to it. At the end of the day it isn’t that person’s problem that someone else has a kid, so therefore they shouldn’t be affected by it. Being said the world isn’t a perfect place and if you straight out don’t show any sympathy period you’re going to make enemies Having a kid should not be a get out of jail free card for any type of commitment, no if ands or buts.

    Since you mentioned the professional World I’ll keep it more leaning towards that, a worker with a kid should not be getting preferable treatment to someone without a kid unless it is something that is directly out of that person’s control. A kid being sick is one thing, leaving early due to a doctor’s appointment is a whole different thing. They make sick days and they make vacation days for that, if the company is willing to work around your appointments that’s great, but that should be a treatment that they are given to everyone regardless of if you have a kid or not.

    As for the lunch example that you gave, without getting too far off topic I firmly believe that that shouldn’t be happening. Regardless of if you have a kid or not. Depending on your contract you’re entitled to a lunch, and in most companies that lunch is unpaid. If I’m not being paid my company is not going to dictate what I’m doing. Lunch period Is very often the period that I use to be able to do the things like what you mentioned such as going to the store or going to the bank, that’s none of my employers buisness what I’m doing during that time.

    in the professional World shit happens, managers will give preferable treatment to people they like and to the more efficient workers. Some managers also struggle to see the difference between empathy and sympathy and go a little too far in worker preference, this doesn’t mean that it’s right. This is a human trait, it’s against our nature to go against it. However as cold-hearted as it sounds employees life outside of the job should not be a problem of the employer. I’m not saying they should be the first one on The Chopping block, but I am saying that if that worker is less efficient, or ends up working less than higher other workers, the fact that they have a kid at home should not be taken into account.

    Please note that this post is not including if your country has laws prohibiting certain actions. Such as in the US FMLA states that once the worker has been with the company for a year they can be entitled to up to 6 months of job protected unpaid leave as long as it’s being used by one of their eligible statuses, and one of these is if I remember my paperwork is caretaking of a dependant or immediate family

  • Fedegenerate@lemmynsfw.com
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    4 hours ago

    Working class trying to strip other working class of rights and privileges. Yes parents of children should get considerations according to their need.

  • Alenalda@lemmy.world
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    5 hours ago

    Up until the last few years I’d hear the same argument about smokers taking breaks. Think the solution is to just keep heading ceos till things improve.

  • ilinamorato@lemmy.world
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    6 hours ago

    I’m a parent, and I don’t want special treatment. Some consideration would be nice, but honestly I just want every employee to be treated like adults.

    • AstralPath@lemmy.ca
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      6 hours ago

      The only co-worker I have on my team has two kids. She’s an absolute pleasure to work with and is a champ when it comes to getting shit done.

      As a result, I go out of my way to ensure that she’s covered when she needs to do things for/with her kids. Mainly because I really don’t wanna lose her but also because she pulls her weight and doesn’t ever take advantage of the situation.

      I don’t have kids, don’t want 'em, and don’t really care if anyone else does, but if you’re a good teammate and I can see you’re a great parent too, I’ll support you as much as I can.

  • Chainweasel@lemmy.world
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    7 hours ago

    I don’t have kids myself, but I understand that it’s the employers fault they don’t extend the same privileges to me, not the parents fault for receiving the privilege.

  • 🇰 🌀 🇱 🇦 🇳 🇦 🇰 ℹ️@yiffit.net
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    4 hours ago

    Depends on the situation. If the parent(s) look absolutely done with life because their crotch goblins are draining the very life from them, I’d do shit like let them go ahead of me in line even if they have hella shit and I just have 1 thing. Let them get on their way and get some rest.

    Like, I’m thinking more about the parents than the kids unless the parents are being Karens.

  • Kelly@lemmy.world
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    9 hours ago

    There’s always some sort of excuse with them. Have to go pick him up from the bus stop, have to go pick him up from school because they got in trouble, dance recital during the middle of the day, always something.

    I am a single parent and work the same hours per timesheet and get the same allotment of personal leave per year as everybody else at my employer.

    If I happen to use that personal leave to pick up a kid who threw up in their classroom while somebody else uses it to see their optometrist or attend a funeral isn’t really anybody’s business.

    I take one early afternoon each week to take my kid to an after school activity, this puts a weekly 2 or 3 hour deficit in my timesheet that I either make up by working a bit longer on the other days or if the sheet doesn’t balance I make up the difference by spending some annual leave. (I try to avoid using AL like this because I would rather save it for holidays but it is occasionally required.)

    I don’t telegraph all of this timesheet accounting to my colleagues, they will know which day I’m leaving early that term and the rest isn’t really their business. At the end of the day/month/year I have my schedule OKed by my line manager and work the commitments of my contract.

    But when it comes to ordinary normal people who don’t have kids, it feels like there’s a lot more scrutiny. Why do you need a doctor’s appointment in the middle of the day? Why do you need to go pick up a prescription at lunch time, like why can’t you work through lunch?

    If your employer / manager is second guessing your leave thats an issue between you and them and shouldn’t have your looking at your peers with resentment.

  • TranquilTurbulence@lemmy.zip
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    14 hours ago

    That sounded very American. Is this a US specific problem?

    why can’t you work through lunch?

    Seriously, there’s something wrong with your boss or perhaps even the whole company. If you need to get stuff done during your lunch hour, you just go ahead and do it. Why should your boss care as long as you do your job during the other hours of the week.

    • DuckWrangler9000@lemmy.worldOP
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      5 hours ago

      It seems like you might not realize, but much of White collar America works right through lunch. It’s the standard. You will work your ass off your entire life, and you will be grateful for your job, they will not be grateful for you. That’s the standard that has been set in the USA. Hell, at least once a week I’m on a call with some other team and there’s someone calling in from a doctor’s office. Had a guy say he had to step out of the doctor’s office mid visit with his doctor just to take a call and I thought that was the most absurd and ridiculous thing I have heard in a really long time. You’re literally in the chair talking to the doctor and you say hold on sorry I got to leave really quick for business. Like what the heck?

      • SLVRDRGN@lemmy.world
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        2 hours ago

        I work in the US and this is not universally true. Though a lot of companies will make you feel that way, there are many that wouldn’t do this. My company respects my lunch hour. I know many that have the same situation.

      • Nollij@sopuli.xyz
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        2 hours ago

        I work an office job in the US. You need to find a better job. No one here is required or even expected to skip lunch. Scheduling is often difficult, so many of my colleagues put it on their calendars as reserved time/another meeting. You can’t schedule a meeting with John at noon. It doesn’t matter if it’s because he’s in another meeting or at lunch; he’s already booked.

        Yes, there are many terrible employers. If you work for one, you need to leave.

      • TranquilTurbulence@lemmy.zip
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        4 hours ago

        That can’t be healthy in the long run. I wonder if it makes Americans snap and go totally postal. Or maybe people just burn out and decide to jump in the nearest river.

  • Skull giver@popplesburger.hilciferous.nl
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    10 hours ago

    In practice, kids provide more good excuses to work around unrealistic expectations, like needing fifteen minutes to pick up something. There’s a good emotional excuse in “I need to take my kid to the doctor”, much more than “the Elden Ring expansion came out”. If your boss is being unreasonable, you’ll need something good to dissuade them. Unfortunately for everyone involved, kid stuff just happens a lot less predictably and a lot more during office hours than (your own) adult stuff. Kids get sick more, do more dangerous things, are more vulnerable, and have weirder schedules than adults. They also can’t really get around by themselves up until a certain age, and at certain age ranges they probably shouldn’t be going to doctor’s appointments without adults either, even if they can get there by bike or by public transport themselves.

    As for kid stuff happening during the day: that’s just how kid stuff works a lot of the time, unfortunately. Doctors and schools are open for only so many hours a day. It’s not like parents get that time off, they need to do chores they’d rather not be doing when they’re away from work. However, if you need to see a doctor or pick up medicine, you shouldn’t be restricted to super uncomfortable times because you’re not a child.

    I don’t see why a kid would be more important than a disabled spouse, or any spouse for that matter. If there’s a family concern where you need to be present, kids shouldn’t get preferential treatment. When it comes to things like being available in your free time or being put forward as a backup, your time should be as valuable as anyone’s time. However, something to consider is that in some occasions parents will negotiate their contracts to be exempted from certain things, often at a cut in pay or with something else to make up for it; in those cases your time is legally worth less than theirs, but that’s down to contract negotiation.

    As for being fired and other stuff where dependents may suffer, I think that’s only logical. It often doesn’t matter which team member gets fired for economic reasons, so a compassionate boss should probably fire causing the least amount of suffering. Someone’s going to feel the pain, but unless there’s a good reason to fire someone else, a single person having their life upset by getting fired will be preferential to a family of four having their life upset.

    • FeelzGoodMan420
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      3 hours ago

      It sounds like your company is being extremely unfair for favoring absences based on children and nothing else. Time to look for a new job if you ask me.

  • Tiefling IRL@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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    12 hours ago

    Yes and no. Everyone deserves the same benefits here. The issue isn’t why someone with kids gets a free pass, but why you don’t get the same offering. Why should someone have to work harder because they’re infertile, gay, or otherwise unable to reproduce?

    • JeffKerman1999@sopuli.xyz
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      9 hours ago

      But that’s on the capitalist, not on the worker. They should hire some more people to cover for whoever has emergencies.

      I have a kid now and I understand the frustration of who didn’t have kids. The problem is that the frustration is to the wrong person.

      • ErmahgherdDavid@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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        2 hours ago

        100% ageed. We seriously need to normalise compassion for colleagues and pushing back on overwork and entitled clients. I’ve been a senior manager in IT for a decade and whether one of my reports’ kids is sick or someone just needs half a day out due to a migraine, I’ll let them do what they need to do. Turns or if you treat your colleagues like actual fucking human beings they actually appreciate you and often return the favour by working late or going above and beyond somewhere else when the crisis has been dealt with.

        Some of the horror stories in this thread of people phoning into zoom calls from the doctor’s office are insane. The world is not going to end just because Jerry couldn’t join this morning’s scrum or you had to move a call with a client.

        “Oh but if underling #148 takes the afternoon off sick we won’t hit our weekly sales goal”. You know what Karen, firstly we sell receipt processing software, we are not saving any lives here get a fucking grip. Secondly, if you deny them that time off they will be doing the bare minimum for the next quarter while they job hunt and inevitably leave.

        I truly resent being forced to partake in this ridiculous system but for as long as I have to, I’m going to have the decency to try to protect my team the best I can.

  • Deestan@lemmy.world
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    17 hours ago

    If you are treated badly, don’t get mad at people who are treated a bit less badly.

  • dohpaz42@lemmy.world
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    16 hours ago

    The better question is why management is giving you flack? That’s the issue. Not your coworkers with kids.