Rational Self-Interest - eviltoast
  • Dagwood222@lemm.ee
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    2 days ago

    Ayn Rand didn’t stop smoking after she’d been warned about the risks.

    Because her books weren’t selling, she ended up on social security, a program she’d mocked when healthy.

    To her admirers she is a model of the power of intellect and the glory of self reliance and independence

    • palordrolap@fedia.io
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      2 days ago

      “The only moral use of [thing I disapprove of] is my use of [thing I disapprove of].”

      A quote that may have originally been about abortion, but applies to most things that serial disapprovers disapprove of.

      See also: “Do as I say, not as I do.” or as it usually is these days: “Do as I say. I am also doing as I say and if think you see me doing otherwise, no you didn’t.”

      • Draces@lemmy.world
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        2 days ago

        I genuinely hate to disagree but taking social security when you need it is acting in your natural self interest. It’s not hypocritical. Ironic yes but not “do as I say not as I do”. Also doesn’t make it a good philosophy to govern by

        • meowMix2525@lemm.ee
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          3 hours ago

          The fact that she eventually needed the social security checks shows that it was in her natural self interest for the system to exist and for her to pay into it. A safety net, whether or not you will ever personally use it, is something that is good for society overall and serves everyone’s self-interest by being there to catch one when they fall.

          If you’re walking a high-wire, it is in your rational self interest to use a harness. Even if it costs money to ensure everyone gets a harness, and suppose you even have a high enough “skill” that you never actually get to use yours; a world that you never have to see anyone fall to their bloody death or worry about your own death is certainly better than the brutal alternative for the amount you pay into the harness.

          If you go to a festival and there are paramedics on standby, just in case; the paramedics have to get paid even if nobody ends up needing them, but they are there because the chances are high enough that somebody could get hurt and the response will be much more efficient with better outcomes if travel time to the venue isn’t a factor. Nobody plans to get hurt, but everyone pays into it through the ticket price. It is in everyone’s self-interest to have them there. If you follow Randian philosophy, it is only in your interest if you happen to be the one that gets hurt, but this is entirely unpredictable.

          She’s a hypocrite, because she herself is not able to fairly assess her own natural self-interest but her philosophy expects everyone else to be able to do so.

          • Draces@lemmy.world
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            2 hours ago

            She’s a hypocrite, because she herself is not able to fairly assess her own natural self-interest but her philosophy expects everyone else to be able to do so.

            That seems like a stretch but it’s definitely the best argument I’ve heard. The hypocrisy is in needing social security then, not taking it. I could definitely see some arguments against it, like claiming the existence of social security is what necessitated it, but that’s definitely not as clear cut and I can respect that perspective

        • Quadhammer@lemmy.world
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          4 hours ago

          Pedantic and missing the point almost intentionally. Must be a redditor

          What she should have done was admitted she was a dumb and selfish bitch

          • Draces@lemmy.world
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            3 hours ago

            I agree she was a dumb and selfish bitch. I think it’s important to be concise, especially around something that’s brought up repeatedly like this and this thread in particular is trying to call her hypocritical. When we call someone a hypocrite that isn’t, it weakens the argument. I want a solid condemnation of this person and their philosophy that doesn’t have holes people can poke and then over correct with

            I don’t use Reddit, that’s really weird to use as an insult though especially when so much of this sites content comes from there

        • AwesomeLowlander@sh.itjust.works
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          2 days ago

          The issue here isn’t her being on social security, it’s her arguing against its existence because ‘Nobody should need it’.

            • ayyy@sh.itjust.works
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              2 days ago

              We did. If she was consistent, she should have just chosen to die since it’s wrong for others to help her.

              • Draces@lemmy.world
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                2 days ago

                That would not be acting in her “rational self interest” read the comic. Ayn Rand was a monster but that’s just not the definition of hypocrite and it is not in line with saying “do as I say not as I do”. She said be selfish take what you can and did. I do not agree with this but I’m not pretending it’s hypocritical. It is consistent with her fucked up beliefs

                • skulblaka@sh.itjust.works
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                  1 day ago

                  The rational self interest bit isn’t what makes her a hypocrite here. RSI is a position that states you take whatever you can whenever you can, so it fits perfectly. The reason we’re calling her a hypocrite is because she spent years calling social security “immoral” only to hop right on it immediately when it became beneficial to her.

                  Ayn Rand: “Social security is an immoral redistribution of wealth and should be abolished. One is entitled to what they’ve earned themselves.”

                  Also Ayn Rand:

                  • Draces@lemmy.world
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                    24 hours ago

                    because she spent years calling social security “immoral” only to hop right on it immediately when it became beneficial to her.

                    Right. When it benefited her. You can still participate in a system you believe is immoral without being a hypocrite. This is like calling a socialist a hypocrite because they exist in a capitalist society. That’s just not true. Within the realm of her own control she acted consistently. It is ironic and emblematic as the antithesis of her own philosophy (which is hilarious and enraging), but it is not hypocritical. Calling it so just weakens the real criticism.

            • phar@lemmy.ml
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              1 day ago

              You actually were referring to the comic, not the post you were responding to. The post you responded to did not say that at all.

              • Draces@lemmy.world
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                23 hours ago

                I literally quoted the comment I responded to

                See also: “Do as I say, not as I do.”

                What are you talking about?