Also I’d like to add while rereading the thread, I’m not sure where you see the disconnect. Everything seems pretty straightforward to me.

You are pretty darn passionate about voting and 3rd parties and that’s great. I read your comment so I was replying to your comment.

Sometimes tangents happen online, and sometimes topics change. Please understand that I am also passionate about these things, so in a Lemmy thread we can end up in many different places. No need to get upset.

That was an aggressive reply and wasn’t very Mr. Rodgers of you.

Did you learn nothing from PBS kids?

His bite is like a vampire’s- those kids are about to become 80 year old politicians!

I think the challenge this argument has is that it ignores the spoiler effect that is the biggest problem in FPTP, and it assumes party changes have happened because a third party successfully unseated a traditional party in a sort of coup.

First, the spoiler effect is very real. You’ll notice the better a third party does, the worse it is for that whole faction of the electorate. It’s a bit of a paradox but you can see it with the notable 3rd party runs. Teddy Roosevelt got Woodrow Wilson elected. Ross Perot gave the election to Clinton by splitting the right. Ralph Nader solidified Bush as president. The better the third party does, the stronger the spoiler effect. It’s not a conspiracy, it’s just the math.

Next, when there is a party change, such as the fall of the federalists or the whigs, it is because they fell apart due to losing a war or their positions (such as opposing manifest destiny) became moot and they no longer had a purpose. This created a void that was then filled with a new party. This was not because a 3rd party arrived and had a David vs Goliath situation. In this metaphor Goliath was already dead when David showed up.

Some questions to ask: what does it mean to have a politically diverse election? How does FPTP or RCV have impact in a time where we have more tools for social engineering (like social media and surveillance tools)? What assumptions of the Republican and Democratic parties are we making? What assumptions are we making on the electorate that they are composed of?

Thank you, that rings so true.

I’ve felt very isolated because my work is in the evenings, so it’s harder to make plans with friends, but this month I get my Mondays and Thursdays back.

As the host of an open mic told me after I had a bad break up- “it’s time to summon the boys”

You have good points and valid reasons to be upset in this election. If we don’t see change in this administration now, why should we expect it going forward?

That said, I would like you to consider a perspective shift on the impact of voting. Put yourself in the shoes of a politician. What is your bottom line? It’s to get reelected.

If you aren’t in a position of power, you can’t pass any bills. You can’t push any agendas. You can’t stop wars. You affect nothing. This is true for politicians, CEOs, Popes, dictators, board presidents, school principles, and homeowners association presidents.

In order to keep that power, you need to make your keys to power happy. In a democracy, there are a lot of keys- those are your voting blocks. The rich, the military, unions, families, students, different ethnicities, different religions- you need to calculate which blocks are most likely to get you reelected.

Now a lot of people wonder why is it that American election campaigns seem to go on forever. They take years. This is because candidates are looking to see who they can bring in to their side. Voters who they don’t please go to their opposition.

Let’s fast forward to after the election. You have won the presidency and are eager to get to work- but guess what, in 4 years you will need to do this all over again. This time, you look at the blocks who voted for you. These blocks were the ones who successfully got you in power, and you want to keep them happy. It’s easier to keep voters than to flip voters, this is the incumbents advantage.

You look at your voting blocks, and you notice there is a large chunk of your previous “supporters” (not that they like you necessarily, just that they voted for you) who want to end arms sales to Israel. If large enough, this group will be pivitol to your next victory. You may have run on a pro Israel stance, but if your electorate needs you to change, you will change.

This doesn’t mean protest sit outs aren’t effective. Michigan had a large vote for Palestine in Biden’s primary campaign. After that result came through, the administration took on more moderate rhetoric. It’s empty, but a first signal nonetheless. If this happened in Illinois or Washington State, his campaign would have ignored it, but since Michigan is a swing state, they paid attention.

In this election, I’m voting for Harris. However, down ballot I’m voting for pro-palestine candidates. Trump’s voting blocks clearly favor Israel, but Harris has a divide she needs to address, and if she sees enough voters voting pro-palestine down ballot, she is much more likely to change her course.

For a deeper look into power structures and how leaders are influenced, I’d recommend watching CGP Grey’s 20 minute video on the rules for Rulers.

There is so much nuance in this discussion that it’s difficult to put all counterpoints into a Lemmy comment while I’m sitting on the pot, but I hope this gives you some more questions to consider as you make the bridge between your values, ideal outcomes, realistic outcomes, and pragmatic strategies for getting that done.

I said it once, I’ll say it again-

Until ranked choice vote is established and the electoral college is abolished, there are no serious third parties.

The most serious third party imo is the Forward Party, only because they have one platform which is RCV, and they are quietly working in local elections only. They aren’t running any candidates in federal elections, although they had a big win in helping Alaska switch to RCV for their congressional race, which nudged out Sarah Palin.

With the forward party in conjunction with fairvote.org , they are laying the groundwork to create possibly the most revolutionary change to American politics ever.

But in order to do that, we need to have elections. Vote Harris.

Yep, be the change you want to see in the world.

Also, making communities is fun! I made !cartographyanarchy@lemm.ee and it is booming thanks to several lemmings who I got to post consistently. Shout out to thepiccardmanuever.

I lurker is never late, nor is he early, he arrives precisely when he means to.

Okay but here me out, what if we 10^43 more monkeys to balance out the speed?

In fact, let’s push this to an extreme. We get enough monkeys that their mass turns them all into one black hole. Inside the black hole, the laws of physics get all fucked. Next we need to somehow dissolve the event horizon as explained in This Kurzgesagt video. Once that happens and we are left with a bare singularity, anything can pop out of it, including a copy of Hamlet.

The monkeys, however, will very likely be dead.

Yep.

I would recommend folks watch this 20 minute video on Rules for Rulers from CGP Grey.

Despots, Presidents, CEOs, Deans, Homeowners Association Presidents, the guy who runs the open mic- at the end of the day they have to follow the same rules to maintain their power. The zero’th rule in the video is “without power, you affect nothing”.

I’m voting for Kamala, and I’m voting down ballot for any pro-palestine candidate. I want to send the message that in order to get reelected, she will need to change her stance.

When I see people not voting out of protest, they are giving their opposition the influence over their elected officials. Remember, they work for you, and voting is how you let them know what you want.

I’d like to do that too, but sadly that’s not on the ballot this year.

Only way I see our way out of these situations in the future is ranked choice vote and abolish the electoral college so 3rd party candidates are actually viable. I’ve been donating to fairvote.org and joined the forward party for that reason, but in the meantime I can only help damage control while I wait for the calvary of rcv.

I’m voting so the state doesn’t kill my sister if she has complications in her pregnancy.

Of course he pulls the classic “it was just a joke bro”.

That said, have dropped out of the comedy world years ago, it pisses me off to see dipshits like this get to perform for thousands while my friends who killed it at the open mics with real comedy are still struggling to get any attention. That’s showbiz I guess.

Hey man I’m gonna verify that my dad is an okay boomer.

My fellow citizens, we got him.

Yea I agree with squid that we should not consider the soup kitchen the place of liberation.

I would say as a guy who has dressed in colorful formal attire when I worked in corporate jobs that you don’t get punished. This meme is like when conservatives say “you can’t say anything anymore”. Obviously you can, and frankly most of the backlash is made up.

That said, how much do you trust your life with Dr. Who? I’ve seen many characters die while trusting him, and that’s just the ones on screen.

I’m not saying he is a bad doctor, but he was caught on film losing several sidekicks/ allies. If you’re caught on film doing something, you probably do it a lot.

“If you get caught doing crack on the news, you are a crackhead. It’s not like a “oh this was just the one time” situation. You do it enough you get caught on the news doing it.” -Josh Johnson

Edit: just looked for an answer of what the mortality rate is for the Doctor and it’s 42% according to a reddit question. At some point the authorities would be called in because 42% is more than just a “licence revoked” number.

Also props to you for making such silly maps! Honored to have you as a fellow mod of !cartographyanarchy@lemm.ee !