@Skipper1402 - eviltoast

A Marxist-Leninist trying to change the world for the better

  • 199 Posts
  • 138 Comments
Joined 1 year ago
Cake day: July 24th, 2023
  • General@lemmygrad.mlOPtoAsk Lemmygrad@lemmygrad.ml•Is hook-up culture part of individualism because it commodifies other people as just sex objects?
    12·
    9 months ago

    Since this discussion seems that is going to be endless, I will reply to the main points.

    Hookups let us scratch each others’ backs at a time when neither side was willing to go into a relationship, and it was good.

    Yeah, it is an act devoid of any connection just to satisfy a desire aka getting your back scratched. Same way one could pay an escort to satisfy such desire. One of the parties gets a monetary need met and the other gets a sexual desire met. No matter how you slice it is individualistic and objectifying.

    I just don’t see why people should go into relationships if they don’t want that.

    I am not saying that people are forced to get into relationships. I was just doing an analysis of hookups and hookup culture. You keep making this wild leaps and assumptions of my arguments.

    Imagine hookups were illegal, people would form dysfunctional pseudo-relationships, build on nothing but the desire for sex. In fact I have seen a few relationships like that, with one side longing for a deeper emotional connection while the other only seemed interested in sex. Why would that be better?

    Firstly, on socialism hookups will disappear on their own since people will be able to live communally and there will be more public free spaces and activities for people to actually form connections. Also, the base and superstructure of a system based on dialectical materialism will destroy any ideology that atomizes humans.

    Getting back to your point, the existence of toxic relationships is not a validation of hookup culture. Hookup culture exists as a result of capitalist alienation and atomization. The fact that deceitful people get into relationships for the wrong reason doesn’t diminish the fact that relationships are the building blocks of communities. And I don’t mean only romantic relationships, but friendships and camaraderie are relationships as well.

    Just because someone has a desire to have sex doesn’t mean that someone needs to objectify someone just for sex. This is a very similar argument of the defenders of prostitution saying that it is okay because “men got needs and women are too picky”. There is such thing as self control.

    Hook ups are the antithesis of relationships and community buildings.

    I don’t see why the people I have an emotional connection with need to be the same people that I have sex with, or vice versa.

    The way that you see things is not something that I could change since you probably already have your cognitive biases, like everyone else does. However, it is good to note that the way that you think it is shaped by capitalism due to base and superstructure.

    I also don’t see what would give another person the authority to condemn interactions I had with others, that they themselves have not been involved in in any way, and that didn’t hurt anyone.

    Lol, it is funny the way that you make these huge leaps and assumptions of my arguments. I am not telling you the way that you have to live your life. I am giving my analysis on hookup culture and hookups based on some answers that I got here.

    I don’t appreciate someone telling me what my relationships need to look like

    Again this is not what I am doing, and I find it funny how you just get defensive over someone’s analysis of hookups. I never mentioned you or your life in my analysis, I kept a very neutral language.

    and your reasoning that hookups are bad because they don’t lead to families honestly reminds me of conservatives condemming homosexual relationships because they won’t result in families. Why would families be required for strong communities? If I have strong bonds with friends and family where we help each other out, participate in a union and some kind of sports club, why would that be worse than a couple that never leaves the house and refuses to have children?

    By families, I didn’t mean children. A couple is a family. As I mentioned previously, friends and comrades are relationships as well. I meant that kind of family. Hookups don’t provide that kind of connection due to their individualistic nature.

    And lastly, why does it have to be either hookups or relationships? Many marriages that start early fail, while marriages that start with both partners being 30+ tend to be very stable. Why would I go into a long term relationship at 20, when I hardly know myself, rather than making a bunch of experiences and then setteling down later?

    Again, I am not telling you how to live your life. I am making an analysis of the individualistic and atomistic nature of hookup culture. You dont have to get married or hookup if you dont want to. What I say is that hookups are individualistic and objectifying, and if you want to do it for whatever reason that is up to you.

    Your entire view of human interaction, relationships and community is just is so extremely foreign to me, and I don’t think we will ever agree.

    This is not relevant to the discussion, but okay 🤷🏽‍♂️

    Obviously, you have made very different experiences, and I’m sorry about that.

    Okay… Can you please not patronize me…

    But I do believe that what you experienced is not a problem with hookups. What you are talking about when you talk about hookups sounds more like rape to me.

    Lol, and again we go with the wild leaps and assumptions 🤣. This do make the convo kind of fun though.

    When I have sex, my partner is not just an object. That’s not what sex is, at least to me, you can’t just do whatever you want without considering the other. You absolutely do have to take into account the other person’s preferences and desires if it is to be a rewarding experience for both.

    On hookups, one doesnt even need to know the person’s name. One doesn’t need to know what is the person’s favorite color, their birthday, or anything about them. This is a way of dehumanization.

    A complaint that I hear a lot about hookups is that people are selfish and just want to get off themselves. Women mostly complain about how the guy doesnt really care about her reaching orgasm, but the guy wants to only get off himself.

    One can try to make the hookup experience as human as possible but ultimately the individualistic nature of it will devolve on the objectification of the other individual and that is what the hookup culture is filled with, selfish individuals.

  • General@lemmygrad.mlOPtoAsk Lemmygrad@lemmygrad.ml•Is hook-up culture part of individualism because it commodifies other people as just sex objects?
    11·
    9 months ago

    a long time relationship serves to satisfy one’s need for companionship

    This is very reductive. A long-term relationship is not just that, at least a non-toxic one. Long-term relationships require making sacrifices for the other person and thinking of another individual’s needs outside your own.

    a hook up satisfies one’s need for sex.

    Yes, that is all it is. It is the individualistic act of using another person to get a physical release from them. I would say that is more of a desire for sex rather than a need for sex. People dont die of lack of sex.

    Both are mutually beneficial agreements between consenting parties

    I dont see how the alienation of bonds between humans and the reduction of other individuals to be a physical release is beneficial for anyone. If anything saying that people benefit of such alienation and lack commitment is individualistic, and saying that they consented to that when capitalism doesn’t give many people other options to connect with other by privatizing all communal spaces, is a very liberal way of thinking.

    Recognizing other people can satisfy our needs is not “objectifying” them, as long as we consider their needs as well.

    Isn’t it though? As mentioned before hook ups are just a way to meet someone’s desire for sex. That is the only requirement for hookups. The prime directive is to meet that desire. Therefore, the other person is just a means to an end, an object to release that desire. Their humanity is pointless in that state. Their role is just to quench the sexual desire of another.

    “Objectifying” others would be to disregard their needs and to view them only as means to your own needs.

    But that is literally what a hookup is. Is a no strings attach means to an end where someone desires for sex gets met. It doesn’t matter what happens after or if someone might catch feelings for the other and gets hurt afterwards or if one person is doing as revenge sex for someone else or any reason that might cause hurt to any of the parties. It is an individualistic act where the other person becomes an object for sexual gratification of another without any of the sacrifices of commitment that would come from a relationship with such individual.

    I think your view of hookups is weird.

    Whatever you say bro

    Why would a hookup mean that I regard my partner as any less of a human than if we were to go into a relationship?

    Because the nature of hookup is just to use someone as a release for a desire without actually making a bond with that person; therefore that is a disregard for their humanity. Also, someone that someone hooks up is not a partner.

    You are trying to make a connection when hooking up. Its just that this connection is a mostly physical one, rather than emotional.

    That is not really a connection, but a way of release. Since we agreed that hookups are just a way to satisfy sexual desire, saying that doing this is a connection is like saying that paying an escort is also having a physical connection. It makes no sense.

    And honestly I don’t understand what you mean with “trying to make a community”. When I go into a relationship I’m not trying to do that either, and I don’t see why monogamous relationships would be required for communities.

    I am not talking about monogamy here, but of hook up culture. Relationships help build communities because it creates families that when join together creates communities. No communities are created around hookups since the nature of hookups are hit it and quit it. It is the antithesis of community.

    Bonobos, some of the most social animals with extremely strong communities have no concept of monogamy, they have sex with different partners all the time. Why would hookups not allow for strong communities?

    Again, hookup culture and monogamy are totally different things, you can be polyamorous and not do hookups. But, lol, bonobos, literally resolve everything through sex. That is all that they do. I don’t think that humans and bonobos equate because we have a legal system and want to achieve more things in life besides just having sex all the time lol.

    Every time that a male bonobo gets rowdy, females will just have sex with him to call him down. I don’t think that is something that we should adopt in society. Males always expecting sex to not go rowdy 🤣.

    Our closest relatives are chimpanzees and they are rapist psycho killers. I don’t think that we should use other animals to try to create a human society around. That is not dialectical.