You keep changing the goalposts on me. First of all, doctors DO have a long history of racism. Just look up racism in medicine, there are plenty of examples, including teaching for a long time in medical textbooks that black people don’t feel pain as acutely as white people. Then there’s also the whole euthanasia thing. In my home state of North Carolina, for decades doctors involuntarily sterilized black (usually homeless) patients. There was a big settlement a few years back.

To this day, black women are way more likely to die in childbirth. The reasons for for that are complicated but it has been suggested that racism is a factor (not taking the complaints and concerns of the women seriously).

I think the medical field has largely cleaned up their act, but they didn’t get there by being told that All Doctors are Bastards. They got there by the long, slow, unsexy process of reform.

I am all for police reform. But saying “all cops are bastards” is no more truthful than saying “all doctors are bastards” a century ago.

No not really, but you can do both. Ranked choice voting has already been enacted in several places in the US and they didn’t get there by electing third- party majorities

https://www.rcvresources.org/where-is-rcv-used

The trick is to support ranked-choice voting in the meantime

You didn’t say anything about civilians. And besides, police officers can only use lethal force in either self defense or to protect others. In fact, that’s the same standard for “lawful homicide” as literally anyone else.

Replace cops with “doctors” or “engineers” or literally anything- why do people only make this argument with cops?

Soldiers.

But anyways, i think it’s just as reprehensible for, as an example, an engineer to not report his coworker cutting corners on an infrastructure project that could jeopardize an entire community (maybe he wanted to meet a deadline to make himself look good, maybe he took money under the table from an interested party) as for a cop to not report his coworker who took a bribe from a drug dealer. In both cases, the bystander has equal ability to intervene and potentially save lives. The fact that the police officer has the right to use force as part of their job description isn’t really relevant.

There is nothing inherently immoral about being a police officer though (as opposed to being a Nazi). Everyone but anarchists understands the need for police officers/“Violence of the state” in some capacity.

Haha welcome to Lemmy m8. I’ve gotten into this exact argument before. I’m all for police reform and I was out there in the George Floyd protests but the hatred of police officers on this platform is absolutely rabid.

Imo, the argument that ACAB because the good ones don’t stop the bad ones can be applied to virtually any group of people. So we’re all bastards I guess.

A lot of people don’t know that Abraham Lincoln was a big proponent of prohibition. It was seen by progressives as an important step to move society forward.

Jsyk, Kelvin doesn’t use degrees, they just use Kelvin. Good to know so nerds won’t get mad at you :)

I don’t really know what you’re saying with most of these points, I think you’re calling me a racist for trying to interpret your statement about the original Jewish settlers being Arab.

I agree, nobody has a right to force you from your home. I strongly oppose Isreals settlements in the West Bank and their occupation of Gaza. I also oppose calls for their eviction from Israel. Can’t you see it’s the same thing? “But it was the Palistineans land first” you say- no, that is clearly untrue, Jewish people were living in Israel since the Iron Age, and it was the Arabs (and Romans) that evicted them.

And what’s this about land being taken from Arab Muslims to build the Jewish temples? You do know that Jewish people were living in Israel since before Islam was a religion right?

Wait so you’re saying the Jewish people of Judea/Kingdom of Israel were Arab? Genetically you kind of have a point (Palestinean people and Jewish are closely related) but culturally they are very different, at least since the founding of Judaism. But even if Jewish people were Arab, wouldn’t that mean that they have equal claim to the land with the Palestinians?

Israel is far from blameless, but their neighbors are far from innocent as well. They have all in the last half century done their best to kill Israeli civilians and take Israel off the map. The real solution here is to pressure Israel into negotiations and a peace settlement that involves a two state solution, which only the US government can do.

Well you are dead wrong about that, Jewish people lived in Judea (modern-day Israel) for about 2000 years before being evicted by the Romans in like 300 AD or so. The Arabs did not enter the region until AD 700. So, all told not only did the Jewish people live in Palestine long before the Arabs did, they have also been living their longer.

Does that mean that evicting the Palestinian people to found Isra was justified? I think no, and it has turned out to be a terrible mistake. But what is the difference really between the founding of Israel and your advocacy for evicting the Jewish people who live there now and returning it to the Palestineans?

That’s not quite what I said. I said several generations but that’s the idea- there is no point in evicting your great-grandchildren due to an illegal and immoral action you undertook.

Suppose the year is 3000 and Israel still exists and the palestinean people still want the land back. The Israeli “occupiers” have now been there for 1000 years. Would you still support giving the land to the Palestinians?

That is not remotely what I said

Mostly off topic but check out the flash game “Timemu” (time emu). A silly little game involving coordinating your efforts across multiple timelines, it reminds me of Portal.

That’s pretty unrealistic in my opinion. Jewish people see Isreal as their ancestral homeland and they are already risking their lives to stay there. Millions of people would likely die rather than leave.

Two wrongs don’t make a right. It was wrong to push out Palestinians, but now that Israeli people have been their for generations it would be wrong to push them out too. There arent many human settlements without a record of eviction and occupation. Even the native American tribes occupied, annexed, and eradicated each other for millenia before Europeans arrived. In my opinion, once you live somewhere for a few generations it’s your land and you can’t be kicked out- that just adds more suffering to the world.

That is cool but keep in mind that’s for a petrol bus I assume. It also doesn’t include cradle to grave co2 emissions (per person, cars use way more raw materials than buses). That’s also a good argument for motorcycles: from an environmental perspective they just use way less stuff

I think it’s a bit more complicated than that. It’s a messed up country, but it’s in an extremely messed up part of the world. All of their neighbors are nondemocratic ethnostates, and not even the apartheid kind, they’ve completely driven Jewish people out of their countries. I don’t think standing by and letting Isreal get overrun would be beneficial for the world. I don’t support their offensive military actions but that doesn’t mean I want to see what happens when Hamas/Hezbollah takes over their country.