I’ll start.
For Guinan: I loved that her character was that classic trope of the “bartender / therapist” who was always around, but never got too involved in the main plot. She would give casual advice, but wasn’t officially an “advisor”, so it served the show well for the main characters to share what they were thinking.
For Quark: He was unquestionably the better developed character, with his own wants and desires that frequently intertwined with the main plot. He also served as a sort of foil to the values of the federation, which let the viewers see how greed was incompatible with the best interests of the people.
I love both. Which was your favorite? Which approach did you like better for the “bartender” character?
It’s apples to oranges. They served two totally different roles. If you’ve seen Picard you understand she played a much move pivotal role in time and events than Quark. He was a great character, but didn’t hold the power to change life altering events like Guinan. Personally, I like Quark’s character better though.
Apples to oranges was my first thought. Guinan is good at listening, helping to sort out someone’s thoughts, and if needed saying that there is a path for someone to follow. Quark is about that profit, and when he gives advice it is direct, not subtle. Sometimes accompanied by an insult. I think both are good characters, but Quark is definitely more well-rounded and developed. Over time, little is learned about the El-Aurians from Guinan. A lot is learned about the Ferengi from Quark.
I still need to see Picard. I honestly have only watched TOS, TNG, and DS9 a billion times for some reason, and I have a lot of catching up to do.
Do yourself a favor and skip the entire first two seasons of Picard.
I’d heard it had mixed reviews… I’m someone who will power through the stinkers if I have to though.
I’m the same, but. holy. fuck.
Season 1 is bearable, and has some neat things like The Borg 2.0 and go a little deeper into Data’s story. But season 2 is absolute fucking garbage. I tired for months to get through it and finally quit on the last 2 episodes. Holy fuck it’s honestly one of the worst seasons of any TV show ever not just Trek. I’m not gonna lie it kinda ruined the ironic character I grew up watching a little for several months.
So yeah if you don’t want that, skip to 3. Finally went back to see it, they must have fired the whole writing staff because it’s so much better. Still not amazing but they basically salvaged the best characters in the franchise.
That’s so disappointing, but at least I know going into it now.
I feel like a key interview question for a writer/director/etc should be “are you a fan of star trek?” Like, there are a ton of hardcore trek fans out there. Sure some of them are writers and can do the characters justice.
The ego of some showeruners thinking they know best and no one gets them can be staggering. Combine that with negligent execs who only see an IP’s $$$ and you get a hellbrew of no one questioning anyone.
Definitely worth the stink when you get to season 3 and the final scene with Q. Good luck!
I watched the first episode and noped out of it, but I was tempted to skip first season. Do you think starting with season three would work? I’m not particuarly completionist, and I’m sure I can fill in the blanks…
Yes
No problem starting with s03. There’s very little continuity between seasons, and the parts that call back to earlier seasons are fleeting and non crucial. Each season can be watched out of order, but within seasons, they need to be watched serially.
FTR, I liked the whole series, but I’d have trouble recommending s01-02 generally.
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I think it’s a pretty open and shut case for Quark. I love Guinan, but Quark is just a much more developed and interesting character for me.
He also fills the smuggler role. He pairs nicely with Garek’s information brokering.
Garek deserves a prequel series. What was tailor school like? Did he get grief for being into fashion instead of war games like other Cardassians? Did his family support his decision?
Right. And a simple tailor as he was, did he fit in with his complicated peers in tailor school?
@Semi-Hemi-Demigod @Datas_Cat_Spot @atlasraven31 @TotalElipse I would watch the HELL out of this
TIL the fediverse does @ replies and my username looks boss
Coming soon from CBS Studios, Young Garak! See how a young Cardassian grows up under a ruthless tyrant!
Followed by the sequel, Breaking Baste, where a once-infamous spy becomes a simple tailor.
Um… you do know that was after his career in the Obsidian Order, right? He was kinda exiled… I mean, I’d love to see a Garak-focused prequel series that also runs until the end of the Dominion War (because you never really ever leave the Obsidian Order), telling some DS9 plot points from his perspective… but I don’t think the whole tailoring thing was ever more than part of a cover he learned as a spy that he turned into a pseudo-career during exile.
thats_the_joke.jpg
“Um, akshully…”
Birth of the first new ST pasta in the Fediverse??
Yeah I mean it’s gotta be Quark and it’s not close. He also became the de-facto representative of life outside the Federation & Starfleet, which was one of the things DS9 really leaned in to.
I enjoy the more humourous tone that Quark gives the show; so my vote goes for Quark!
However, if I were to live on a Starship or a Deep Space station, I would probably visit Guinans bar more often than Quarks…
Scenes in Ten Forward always feel so cozy, and nobody would be trying to rip you off. Lol
That’s where I’d personally want to hang out too.
But Ten Forward is on a Starfleet vessel, and therefor far more exclusionary. Anyone can take a shuttle to Quark’s.
Now that I think of it, I do really like that aspect of Quark’s bar as a story tool. Since they were located on a station, anyone who’s just passing through could be sitting at the bar.
Yeah, it’s a wretched hive of scum and villainy!
That’s because you don’t see Ten Forward during red alert
Lower Decks has a couple on a date in the lounge when a Red Alert goes off, it’s a pretty good bit as they continue their date. Though don’t think it’s called ten forward on that ship.
I think the vibe was better in Guinans bar. Who wants carpeting in their drinking hole?!
Quark has the most deviant Holodeck programs…
I think Lt. Barcley and his “300 Trois” program may disagree with you.
The ship will clean itself!
@Datas_Cat_Spot
Who was “better utilized” is a hard question in my view, but I think it’s clear that Quark was a more fully developed character.Guinan appeared seldom but always gave insight to characters when they most needed it. She was enigmatic, and cool, but not very fleshed out.
Quark was more realized as a character - more complex, more highs and lows, more emotions. I didn’t like him much, but he was more “interesting” to watch.
You’ve hit on a good point there, Guinan always felt to me like a deus ex machina in the stories. It feels like when the writers don’t know how to resolve something, they just have a character go to Guinan and resolve whatever it is they were struggling with.
It also feels like they really didn’t know what to do with the character. Whoopie’s availability didn’t help with that, since she had only a very limited shooting time. Sometimes they made it seem like Picard and her go way back, but then she didn’t play any significant role as far as we know. And there were plenty of times where they would have been far apart for super long. They also want to make her an enigma, not really knowing her age or limits, with vague hints to her father and Q exclaiming she has powers. But nothing ever comes of this. And if Picard and her go way back, surely he would know about some of this stuff? But he never does it seems like.
Her whole back story is full of holes and the character makes no sense. But that’s common with Star Trek characters.
It feels like throwaway lines that get tossed around to make the character feel more than it is, but it’s completely hollow and ultimately comes to nothing.
It’s a shame, because I like the idea of Guinan, but story wise the character simply wasn’t very good and not utilized very well.
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His stories really helped humanize (gotta be a better for for that) the Ferengi. Like, yes they were cartoonishly greedy little jerks, but they also have individuality within their culture.
@war @Datas_Cat_Spot actually, what is the word for that? When a species treats a human as less than human (or vice versa)? I was saying the other day that in Chain of Command, the Cardassian captor “dehumanises” Picard, but that’s not right, is it? I mean, that’s what humans would call it, but what would be a cross-species term for it?
I guess the closest is something generic like “belittles” or “degrades” maybe?
Neelix was Voyager’s unofficial bartender, spreading cheer to Tuvok and helping Tom Paris hit Warp 10!
Please don’t ban me.
“Choke me harder, daddy”
Bartenders are often in charge of lifting moral.
So wouldn’t that make the blended neeliz/tuvok the first federation bartender in Star trek?
I got to agree with Steve Shives that Guinan was a better councilor than Deanna Troi.
However, I loved seeing Quark as a character more. I’m some cases, he gives great commentary on hu-mans. In other cases, he is great as someone who gives character to the station; Quark is that bit of shitberg floating on the surface that shows a lot worse is happening underneath. Quark is authenticly fake I love him for it.
I love the character of Quark, but let’s be honest. Guinan is the better bartender, if you’re just a regular Starfleet officer looking to down a pint of syntheholic ale.
Guinan is the better bartender, if you’re just a regular Starfleet officer looking to down a pint of syntheholic ale.
Nonsense, she also has green!
Besides, I couldn’t see Quark making a Tzartak aperitif.
Hmm, I think it depends on what you’re looking for in a bartender. If you want someone chatty Quark would be the better choice.
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I mean idk quarks is basically a half step away from a brothel and while I love the character he’s a lil shit and greedy ad. My vote is 10 forward
Ten Forward is just a relaxing environment. There are a few people who have uploaded ambient/atmospheric trek videos on youtube (usually something like “10 hours of the TNG warp core room”). There’s a Ten Forward one I’ve put on in the background quite a few times.
I’m not sure how this was even a question. Quark was clearly better utilized.
I also love both, but Quark is my fav character of all Trek so I guess I’m biased.
