Me watching a repeat of 2016
There’s so many things Kamala can do to guarantee she wins…
Taking a stand against genocide is just one of them, but she just keeps going to the right.
It’s the exact opposite of what voters want, but exactly what donors want and why they’re donating.
Shit won’t get better until we at least get dirty money out of our party.
There’s so many things Kamala can do to guarantee she wins…
In a world where a surprisingly high proportion of society are moderately to completely sure that the Government can control major weather events, I must say I am more than a little skeptical about the idea that anyone can convince a majority of the populace to make what is self-evidently the best decision based on factual information that they can process and compare against other statements until reaching a cohesive conclusion not based more or less entirely on self-serving and/or ideological biases.
That comment needs an editor.
Your comment needs to be interesting. Briefly checking your post history, this seems to a recurring issue.
You thought it was interesting enough to go look at my history? That’s quite flattering. Or it would be.
And doing shit like trotting out the Cheney’s. Nobody likes these people any more, who the fuck are you doing this for? I swear to God, the West Wing has broken the brains of every consultant in Washington.
The people running the DNC and Kamala’s campaign are the same ones that lost to trump in 2016 and beat him by the skin of our teeth in 2020, in spite of their decisions
I’ll say it till my face turns blue:
Shit is too important to be letting these unelected “moderates” being the sole deciders of what our only other option is
They don’t really care about if trump wins, they care about keeping billionaires and corporations happy
They’re not on the same side as the Dem voting base.
Won’t stop them from blaming the Dem voter base instead of their own bad campaigning and lack of popular progressive policies
The following are all true:
- Supporters of both Israel and Palestine are, by default, likely to vote Democrat
- Both of them also are likely to consider the conflict their one issue of primary importance, where they cannot imagine voting for someone who supports the other side.
- There is no way to please all of them.
This is simple logical arithmetic. The best strategy is to say nothing, and not piss anyone off. Because if you choose to piss off one side and support the other, you’ll end up making the other go to Trump or decide to stay home. And if that happens, it’ll be Miriam Adelson deciding the policy and that means Israel takes both Gaza and the West Bank and expels everyone they don’t like.
There is much evidence to show that is not true. Harris changing position on Gaza to support withholding weapons would only be a gain of voters. Polling shows as much as 6 points if not more, which is significant, especially with the race this close. And especially in swing states like Michigan.
Quote
Our first matchup tested a Democrat and a Republican who “both agree with Israel’s current approach to the conflict in Gaza”. In this case, the generic candidates tied 44–44. The second matchup saw the same Republican facing a Democrat supporting “an immediate ceasefire and a halt of military aid and arms sales to Israel”. Interestingly, the Democrat led 49–43, with Independents and 2020 non-voters driving the bulk of this shift.
- Split Ticket (July 2024)
Quotes
In Pennsylvania, 34% of respondents said they would be more likely to vote for the Democratic nominee if the nominee vowed to withhold weapons to Israel, compared to 7% who said they would be less likely. The rest said it would make no difference. In Arizona, 35% said they’d be more likely, while 5% would be less likely. And in Georgia, 39% said they’d be more likely, also compared to 5% who would be less likely.
- New Poll Suggests Gaza Ceasefire and Arms Embargo Would Help Dems with Swing State Voters (Full YouGov Report) (May 2024)
Quotes
- Data For Progress Poll (May 2024)
Quotes
Quotes
Majorities of Democrats (67%) and Independents (55%) believe the US should either end support for Israel’s war effort or make that support conditional on a ceasefire. Only 8% of Democrats but 42% of Republicans think the US must support Israel unconditionally.
Republicans and Independents most often point to immigration as one of Biden’s top foreign policy failures. Democrats most often select the US response to the war in Gaza.
These are all interesting polls and slightly more supportive of changing Israel policy than I would’ve expected, but they don’t really answer the key question: if Kamala came out and announced a key change to the relationship with Israel, like withholding military aid, would her numbers improve or get worse? The top poll doesn’t really answer it because the Biden administration clearly has been trying to make a ceasefire happen, without success. So 49% represents the current reality.
I’d also point out that in the second poll, 13% of Democratic voters support more weapons for Israel. If Kamala loses 13% of Democrats, or even a quarter of that number, this election is over.
Kamala came out and announced a key change to the relationship with Israel, like withholding military aid, would her numbers improve or get worse?
13% of Democratic voters support more weapons for Israel. If Kamala loses 13% of Democrats, or even a quarter of that number, this election is over.
You can always just shame them into voting for Kamala, like the demonstrably larger other side of the argument is being shamed now, since you guys seem to think that’s the strategy to beat them all.
You can always just shame them
I don’t believe in shaming. But what I will say is that the far-right Israel supporters, like Miriam Adelson who supports fully annexing the West Bank and gave $100 million to Trump, are going to be voting for Trump this election. Whether you wanna do anything to counter them is up to you.
No shit, which is why the Democrats should stop trying to win over those voters and take a stand against genocide instead of pussyfooting around the issue. You can convince every last soul that reads this thread that Trump is going to personally murder every remaining Palestinian, and yes, shame, every last voter you meet for disagreeing with you, and it will blow away like a fart in the wind.
You and I are only individuals, and lemmy is a very small platform. We cannot change things systemically from here no matter how much we shout and argue past each other.
The only thing that can change the outcome is changing the talking points and policy at the top, because the strategy they’re going with now is actively damaging to their campaign and working against your efforts. The undecided voters are doing her a courtesy by letting her know before election day where their convictions lie so she can meet them where they are. If she refuses to heed that warning, then that is on her.
The critical part of the first poll is the halt of arms sales to Israel, that is what gives the Democrats a +6 boost.
The third poll (which I think you meant) still shows that twice as many Democrats want to reduce weapons sent compared to those who do. Although, I’m not sure we can reasonably say those 13% of Democrats would no longer vote for Harris if she did change her policy on that. Would that also imply that those 28% of Republicans also switch to Harris? I don’t think that would be true either.
The second poll, which deals with swing states, shows that people are not deciding to not vote Democrat because of the current policy. To the extent that a change in policy would make ~35% of those swing state voters would be more likely to vote for the Dems compared to the ~5% that would be less likely.
The 4th poll shows a 5% increase from a chance in policy, similar to the first.
The 5th shows how Biden’s handling of the war, the calls of a ‘ceasefire’ that never materializes while the US continues to send more and more weapons, is one of his most unpopular positions.
It won’t. The Arabs are too angry. Minnesota literally has a Palestinian who lost 42 family members in a single airstrike by Israel and then their governor goes on a VP debate for election and the only thing he can say about the conflict is that he supports Israel’s right for expansion.
Yet I still see so many people blaming the voters who want an alternative to genocide, instead of the policies of the administration that give it unconditional military support.
Harris can easily earn so many votes, especially in swing states that she needs to win, with a pivot on Biden’s unpopular foreign policy on Israel. This race should not be this close. Trump is a uniquely unpopular candidate, to the extent that even two assassination attempts didn’t even move his approval rating.
Yet I still see so many people blaming the voters who want an alternative to genocide
Yes, and I don’t care about the opinions of such people any longer. They process the harms being done in the world into a sense of entitlement that everyone should deal with that in the way they do, which is principally by finding a way to rationalise those harms as inevitable.
Too many humans are going to keep killing other living beings, and then putting effort into rationalising how this is a good thing. In my lifetime we are going to see more of anthropogenic climate change killing people, and those who (think they) have profited from such climate change rationalising how ‘this is good because…’, or ‘they deserved it because…’.
In a world where immigrants (like myself) are treated with contempt, people who didn’t migrate from countries where climate change is deadly will be laughed at.
Fix that and I will care about political decisions. Until then, I remain unconvinced that pretending that we can maintain a status quo by just pandering to the right-wing enough is of any particular value.
Do you know what’s more important than profit? Life. I’d take fewer dead babies over arms merchants making money selling the means to kill more innocent people.
Martin Luther King Jr’s speech on Vietnam rang very true when I read it recently. It put me back about how similar today is to nearly 60 years ago.
It is with such activity in mind that the words of the late John F. Kennedy come back to haunt us. Five years ago he said, “Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable.” Increasingly, by choice or by accident, this is the role our nation has taken, the role of those who make peaceful revolution impossible by refusing to give up the privileges and the pleasures that come from the immense profits of overseas investments. I am convinced that if we are to get on the right side of the world revolution, we as a nation must undergo a radical revolution of values. We must rapidly begin…we must rapidly begin the shift from a thing-oriented society to a person-oriented society. When machines and computers, profit motives and property rights, are considered more important than people, the giant triplets of racism, extreme materialism, and militarism are incapable of being conquered.
https://www.americanrhetoric.com/speeches/mlkatimetobreaksilence.htm
Yes, and I don’t care about the opinions of such people any longer. They process the harms being done in the world into a sense of entitlement that everyone should deal with that in the way they do, which is principally by finding a way to rationalise those harms as inevitable.
I don’t think Arabs in America care anymore. This past year has made it very evident US politicians don’t actually care about human rights or the lives of Arabs all too much. They’re just numb to it all.
he supports Israel’s right for expansion.
Israel seems to expand into areas they don’t control, breaking international law. And, while doing so, they bring settler violence (backed by the IDF) against innocent people, including children.
What ‘right’ is that? Would I have the ‘right’ to expand into my neighbour’s home if I was backed by a large number of people with guns?
I can understand a ‘might makes right’ sense of morality after societal collapse, because living beings are constrained by an inadequate sense of perception tied to the illusion of an enduring consciousness that prejudices them in favour of their survival. It’s concerning that we are practising these skills while society appears to be functioning to some extent, as if many people are excited about living in a post-apocalyptic world and are in training for dealing with it by swapping the lives of strangers for whatever imagined gain they think they will experience.
lol @ “right to defend themselves” somehow turning into “right for expansion” like they could just slip that by and no one would notice.
Minnesota literally has a Palestinian who lost 42 family members in a single airstrike by Israel
Sounds like she should be investigated for having ties to Hamas…
This is either missing a big fat /s and still pretty tone deaf, or the most disgusting thing I’ve read today
Really hope you’re being sarcastic here man.
“Please vote for me! I will do anything but stop supporting genocide of people abroad who share your religion.”
Zios are murdering people from a variety of religions.
Harris seriously needs to fire her campaign advisors. There are so many easy things she could do to easily win the presidency but for some reason she refuses to do them.
Taking a stand against genocide is just one of them and is so easy to do. She’d gain 10s of millions of Arab voters plus the 10s of millions of progressive voters she’s missing out on right now, and it would probably only cost her a few thousand moderate voters. Those voters probably aren’t even in swing states so who cares?
I don’t know why Harris is running such a stupid campaign or why she just doesn’t do the really easy thing that will absolutely guarantee that she easily wins the white house.
It absolutely blows my mind.
I’m curious if it’s because she has taken the Biden campaign advisors on board. Maybe his whole crew thinks like him, and are thus rabid Zionists.
Or maybe they determined that all the critics are in blue places and not swing states, so they don’t matter.
Harris is a cop. She believes in putting people in cages. Ofc she supports this genocide.
Harris seriously needs to fire her
campaign advisorsdonors.She can’t fire them because she works for them.
don’t know why Harris is running such a stupid campaign or why she just doesn’t do the really easy thing that will absolutely guarantee that she easily wins the white house.
It doesn’t make sense because you’re leaving out half of the equation: money.
There are lots of issues like this that poll overwhelmingly in the opposite direction that Democrats keep moving towards.
They only need 50% +1 of the EC delegates to win the election, anything more eats into their ability to fundraise, as what’s good for everyday Americans is bad for capitalists and ideologues. Pandering to voters is good but if they can get you in the booth on the threat of Trump alone then even better. That frees them up to fuck around and do whatever gets the most money out of their donors.
Taking a stand against genocide is just one of them and is so easy to do. She’d gain 10s of millions of Arab voters plus the 10s of millions of progressive voters she’s missing out on right now,
It’s too late for this “progressive”. I voted for Cornel West yesterday. Before y’all libs attack me, I live in a state where my vote is completely meaningless. Democracy and freedom!!! \s
Excellent choice, I voted for Trump. It’'s absolutely imperative that we keep Harris from getting elected and voting for a third party instead of Harris helps to get Trump elected, but since I live in a swing state I didn’t want to take any chances and voted directly for Trump instead of indirectly.
voting for a third party instead of Harris helps to get Trump elected
It’s about time MAGA actually admitted that.
It blows your mind because you’re living in a bubble and believe things you read on the internet without questioning them enough.
First Israel is not committing genocide. The casualties are consistent with combat operations in an urban environment. Death toll numbers are flattening as Hamas is eliminated: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casualties_of_the_Israel–Hamas_war#/media/File:Gaza_death_graph.png
If it were a genocide the numbers would be increasing.
Second, you’re in a very small group of unreliable voters. It is not good strategy to ignore the majority to appease a small group of people that have been influenced by a foreign propaganda campaign. Most people understand that Hamas is a terrorist group, doesn’t wear uniforms so therefore civilian casualties will be high when there’s combat operations against them. Most people understand what happened on October 7, and understand that a nation should not abandon it’s people when they’re being held hostage. And nations shouldn’t abandon their allies simply because their allies are fighting an enemy that has a propaganda campaign that’s effective on a small portion of their population.
You likely weren’t going to vote anyway. You’d probably find some other excuse to not vote even if Harris was saying everything the propaganda tells you she should. And, I can’t stress this enough, you’re part of a very small group of people. What you’re saying isn’t all that different from someone saying they can’t understand why Harris wouldn’t say the Earth is flat because she’s losing the flat earther vote if she doesn’t.
She’s not saying the things you want her to say because you are wrong. Surrounding yourself only with people that agree with you doesn’t change that.
It’s a genocide
It’s a genocide, and your boss needs to retrain you, you’re using ancient debunked versions of your propaganda.
Nobody outside your internet bubble agrees with you. You’re unable to gain any influence outside of a few impressionable youths because you’re constantly making claims that are obviously false. We all see you try to redefine the word genocide to mean “whatever Israel is doing”. Using a word like genocide in this way is disgusting to rational people which is why you’re becoming pariahs.
ICJ and UN agree it’s a genocide. More than 120 countries call it a genocide.
It’s just the US (former performer of genocide), UK (former performer of Genocide), and Israel (largest performer of genocide since the Holocaust) that deny the genocide.
ICJ and UN agree it’s a genocide.
That’s a lie. They expressed concerns over a potential genocide six months ago and haven’t said anything since. A rational person would conclude that the potential genocide that they were worried about didn’t actually happen.
Listen, your generic propaganda barely worked on the most right leaning people a year ago. It does not work on anyone with a brain and does not work on a left leaning site like lemmy. Go back to reddit and other right wing hug boxes with your genocide denying bullshit. Trump’s going to lose, US troops will not be sent to aide your genocide, you’ll have to live with unlimited funding to kill kids with, and history will look on at Israel’s ashes the same way it does Nazi germany. You racist, evil, genocide denying hog.
No.
Lol what’s that one rule where of there’s a question in the headline the answer is almost always no?
Betteridge’s rule of headlines.
Moreover, Harris often stresses that her support for Israel is “unwavering”. She has been part of an administration that has overseen unconditional support for the brutal war on Gaza, and recently, she welcomed Israeli escalation in Lebanon.
When asked recently what she would have done differently from Biden, Harris said “not a thing that comes to mind”, stressing that she has been part of the decision-making process at the White House on most important issues.
Separate from the moral issue, this just speaks to her being a really poor campaigner. These are softball questions designed to allow her to create daylight with an unpopular president on her terms. Reminds me a lot of how much she fumbled her primary campaign.
But old guy picked her and old guy was old on camera, so I guess she’s our best option. Still better than the alternatives, both Biden and Trump, but just sort of sad from a nation of 330M people.
This is why I wanted them to do a primary, I doubt she would have made it past that since there are both really good candidates and also seasoned politicians who would at least campaign much better.
This is why they didn’t do a primary.
I think an often overlooked group of Americans are those that just don’t give a shit about the middle east. From their perspective it full of assholes led by groups that hurt women and minorities. Religious kooks that are constantly commiting acts of terrorism around the world, and actively regressing year after year. Every attempt to “help” in the area makes everything worse.
I’m from a hugely diverse, well educated, part of the US and growing up the same joke about the middle east was used for the last 40 years. “They should just glass the whole region if they ever want to see peace in the middle east.”
It goes without saying everything about that is terrible.
Islamophobia is normalized in America, especially since 9/11. The dehumanization of people in the Middle East is intentional in order to Manufacture Consent for US Foreign Policy in the Region, especially since the Iraq War. Plus the extent of our Military Operations are barely even touched on if at all.
This Genocide in Gaza has been a notable exception, it’s difficult for US News Outlets cover the News and paint our Ally Israel in a good light when it’s been a year of daily Human Rights Violations done by our Ally with our Unconditional Military Support
