They even explicitly stated in one of their old federation threads that their sole purpose in federating with other instances is to “dunk” on anyone they disagree with and send brigades. This has been a longstanding problem with them, nothing they do outside of their instance is in good faith.
Multiple of those links say that yeah. And the one where the admins took the vote, then ignored it and did the opposite of what the community asked. They are so toxic that they’ve even run off their own developers (I’m not sure if that really meant admin, but seeing as how iirc hexbear predates Lemmy it does make sense as actual developer too).
Some hexbears have left hexbear bc they were kicked out - too toxic for them even - but also some were not toxic enough, as in even they could no longer stand it there.
The only thing we absolutely must be intolerant of is intolerance.
And the one where the admins took the vote, then ignored it and did the opposite of what the community asked.
That never happened. All votes are pretty easy to search if you feel like it.
I don’t know about any of the other things you’re talking about, other than a bunch of users getting purged during the first year or so for being transphobes or western chauvinists or whatever.
All votes are easy to search for and read, if you spend even a second doing so. Here, I’ve even done that for you: https://hexbear.net/post/1712067. One result is 41 to remain federated with lemm.ee vs. only 4 to defederate, that’s >91% pro vs. <9% con, but the admins ignored the 91% and did it anyway.
Similarly, 27 to remain federated with programming.dev vs. 19 to defederate, not quite as dramatic but the former still is the majority at 59%, which is more than “significant” i.e. nowhere close to a tie that could have swung differently based on one or two or even 10% of all votes (which would be a little less than 5 votes, or 4.6 if we aren’t rounding to integers, but the difference here is 27-19=8 votes, so almost twice that).
The admins even gave a lengthy explanation about it, including their reasons for having done so:
As an admin team we have never wanted to prioritize growth, and we wanted to give federation with liberal instances a try, however we consider providing a safer browsing experience for marginalized users more important than the opportunity to dunk.
I find the last phrase to be particularly revealing, wherein it is explicitly pointed out that the entire reason to have federated in the first place was for hexbear to spread its ideals, and even more to the point, to make fun of others by rubbing their purported “wrongness” in their faces. I hear nothing here about “interesting conversations”, or “listen to the POV of others”, or even “I might learn something by having wider access to the Fediverse outside of my echo chamber”. Instead it’s “the opportunity to dunk”.
Now all those facts aside, the thing is, I said:
And the one where the admins took the vote, then ignored it and did the opposite of what the community asked.
Which I have now proved happened - bc 91% usually is thought of as being >9% by reasonable people. Though in response you said:
That never happened. All votes are pretty easy to search if you feel like it.
B-b-b-b-b-b-b-b-but, it did in fact happen. So even if there were good reasons for doing so, it is statements like this that makes me distrust everything that you choose to say. Bc you did not say that “There were good reasons”, you instead said “That never happened”. How long would it have taken you to search hexbear locally for the key phrase “defederation”? How is it that like an AI, you feel so free to state in such a confident sounding tone of voice that what I said happened had never happened - no caveats added like to your (very limited) knowledge, no asking me for a link to where I believed it happened, you weren’t asking whether or not it happened, you confidently asserted that it had not, ever. But in fact, it had.
So now if you tell me that the Tiananmen Square massacre did not happen, … well it’s too late, I’m not listening anymore. You aren’t careful with your words, or your facts, proving that you don’t even “know” yourself what you think you believe. And I wish I could help you there, at least I kinda do - but I can’t, bc I don’t know how, and it takes far too much energy & time, e.g. for me to write all this out every time someone who does similarly, deciding (consciously or otherwise) to try to win a conversation by these kinds of tactics, e.g. sea lioning. But at least this much I can offer, just in case it could help someone.
TLDR: If you don’t want people to think that you are trolling, then don’t act in the same manner that a troll would. Now you know.
Thank you for the support. I doubt it too. It’s far easier to bully people who don’t respond back with factual discourse, so they’ll probably move on to lower-hanging fruit.
They even explicitly stated in one of their old federation threads that their sole purpose in federating with other instances is to “dunk” on anyone they disagree with and send brigades. This has been a longstanding problem with them, nothing they do outside of their instance is in good faith.
Multiple of those links say that yeah. And the one where the admins took the vote, then ignored it and did the opposite of what the community asked. They are so toxic that they’ve even run off their own developers (I’m not sure if that really meant admin, but seeing as how iirc hexbear predates Lemmy it does make sense as actual developer too).
Some hexbears have left hexbear bc they were kicked out - too toxic for them even - but also some were not toxic enough, as in even they could no longer stand it there.
The only thing we absolutely must be intolerant of is intolerance.
That never happened. All votes are pretty easy to search if you feel like it.
I don’t know about any of the other things you’re talking about, other than a bunch of users getting purged during the first year or so for being transphobes or western chauvinists or whatever.
All votes are easy to search for and read, if you spend even a second doing so. Here, I’ve even done that for you: https://hexbear.net/post/1712067. One result is 41 to remain federated with lemm.ee vs. only 4 to defederate, that’s >91% pro vs. <9% con, but the admins ignored the 91% and did it anyway.
Similarly, 27 to remain federated with programming.dev vs. 19 to defederate, not quite as dramatic but the former still is the majority at 59%, which is more than “significant” i.e. nowhere close to a tie that could have swung differently based on one or two or even 10% of all votes (which would be a little less than 5 votes, or 4.6 if we aren’t rounding to integers, but the difference here is 27-19=8 votes, so almost twice that).
The admins even gave a lengthy explanation about it, including their reasons for having done so:
I find the last phrase to be particularly revealing, wherein it is explicitly pointed out that the entire reason to have federated in the first place was for hexbear to spread its ideals, and even more to the point, to make fun of others by rubbing their purported “wrongness” in their faces. I hear nothing here about “interesting conversations”, or “listen to the POV of others”, or even “I might learn something by having wider access to the Fediverse outside of my echo chamber”. Instead it’s “the opportunity to dunk”.
Now all those facts aside, the thing is, I said:
Which I have now proved happened - bc 91% usually is thought of as being >9% by reasonable people. Though in response you said:
B-b-b-b-b-b-b-b-but, it did in fact happen. So even if there were good reasons for doing so, it is statements like this that makes me distrust everything that you choose to say. Bc you did not say that “There were good reasons”, you instead said “That never happened”. How long would it have taken you to search hexbear locally for the key phrase “defederation”? How is it that like an AI, you feel so free to state in such a confident sounding tone of voice that what I said happened had never happened - no caveats added like to your (very limited) knowledge, no asking me for a link to where I believed it happened, you weren’t asking whether or not it happened, you confidently asserted that it had not, ever. But in fact, it had.
So now if you tell me that the Tiananmen Square massacre did not happen, … well it’s too late, I’m not listening anymore. You aren’t careful with your words, or your facts, proving that you don’t even “know” yourself what you think you believe. And I wish I could help you there, at least I kinda do - but I can’t, bc I don’t know how, and it takes far too much energy & time, e.g. for me to write all this out every time someone who does similarly, deciding (consciously or otherwise) to try to win a conversation by these kinds of tactics, e.g. sea lioning. But at least this much I can offer, just in case it could help someone.
TLDR: If you don’t want people to think that you are trolling, then don’t act in the same manner that a troll would. Now you know.
Well said! Unfortunately I doubt they’ll have a real response to it and just downvote instead.
Thank you for the support. I doubt it too. It’s far easier to bully people who don’t respond back with factual discourse, so they’ll probably move on to lower-hanging fruit.