The New Yorker is now making the case for negotiating with Russia - eviltoast
  • mah [none/use name]@hexbear.net
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    1 year ago

    lol, just when the American overlords say so. damn, ukraine has been fucked bad… by the Russians AND by the Americans. this madness has to end. stopping financing a proxy war would be a good first step.

    • ☆ Yσɠƚԋσʂ ☆@lemmygrad.mlOP
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      1 year ago

      Yeah, the people of Ukraine are the victims of this proxy war. Even if the war ends today, millions of people will have their lives ruined forever, and hundreds of thousands have died.

  • lorty@lemmygrad.ml
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    1 year ago

    Well, maybe we’ll see some negotiated end to hostilities by the start of next year. It takes time for American media to change public opinion towards that.

    • ☆ Yσɠƚԋσʂ ☆@lemmygrad.mlOP
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      1 year ago

      The question is what the west can offer at this point that still allows the west to save face. The key demand for Russia is demilitarization of Ukraine and keeping it out NATO, and it would be pretty hard to dress that up as anything but a total Russian victory over the west.

      There’s really not much leverage the west has over Russia at this point either. The sanctions failed, and Russia’s military is only getting stronger. Meanwhile, Europe isn’t doing so hot economically and the economy in US isn’t doing much better either. The relative damage to the west is clearly more significant than to Russia. Not to mention that the war is now a major driving factor behind dedollarization and the rise of BRICS which puts the west in a far weaker position geopolitically going forward.

      • Valbrandur@lemmygrad.ml
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        1 year ago

        The key demand for Russia is demilitarization of Ukraine and keeping it out NATO, and it would be pretty hard to dress that up as anything but a total Russian victory over the west.

        To this day westerners keep painting the Winter War as a Finnish victory because the USSR didn’t annex the whole country, regardless of if they ever wanted to. Don’t underestimate the West’s ability to revise recent history by moving goalposts.

    • ☆ Yσɠƚԋσʂ ☆@lemmygrad.mlOP
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      1 year ago

      At this point, I can’t see how this war can end on western terms politically. There’s just too much invested into it at this point to just stop.

      • Galli [comrade/them]@hexbear.net
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        1 year ago

        Saber rattling about China will be reemphasized while this piece will be the first in establishing the new narrative that the liberal consensus was always primarily interested in a negotiated peace with Russia and never thought a total Ukrainian victory was possible.

        • ☆ Yσɠƚԋσʂ ☆@lemmygrad.mlOP
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          1 year ago

          Sure, but ultimately it’s up to Russia to decide whether they stop the war or not. And it has been a theme now that libs make all these hare brained schemes simply assuming that Russia is going to agree to them, then act shocked when Russia doesn’t.

        • ☆ Yσɠƚԋσʂ ☆@lemmygrad.mlOP
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          1 year ago

          Can’t rule that out, but we’ll see what happens. Seems that with Russia having managed to realign trade to the east, and the west going into a recession even the bourgeoisie won’t have much to gain by looking to the west now.

  • COMHASH@lemmygrad.ml
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    1 year ago

    Never happening within this year. Russia has to play hard ball game this year. Bomb Ukraine to stone age… Otherwise there is no way out.

    • ☆ Yσɠƚԋσʂ ☆@lemmygrad.mlOP
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      1 year ago

      I think it’s very likely that we’ll see a military collapse in Ukraine if things keep going the way they are. Ukraine is losing trained military personnel at an incredible rate, and you can’t just replace these people with those you kidnap off the street.

      • COMHASH@lemmygrad.ml
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        1 year ago

        I am astonished that Ukraine still has such kind of military personnels that has thwarted the Russian offensive obviously there is an immense amount of Western help which will be disclosed in 20+ years. And by kidnapping everyone on the streets, this proxy war can go for 5+ years.