Probably those who had massive errors happen because people bullshitted their way into a position. Certification is important. It’s impossible to test all the bits of knowledge required for a position every time someone applies for a position with the potential for huge fuckups (doctor, engineer, pilot, etc.)
I don’t want to be in the plane with the self taught pilot, even though I think the requirements in the US are kinda bullshit.
I’m not denying that schools are fleecing students and jobs have some protectionism going on with certifications, but there’s a balance to be struck. These requirements happened for a reason.
I’m a firm believer that as long as you can show you knowledge and can accomplish the job, the piece of paper is unnecessary. It’s also why I think apprentiships should be more of a thing again. Degrees are a very modern thing that while a very useful tool, isn’t being used right.
Of course, and any job will expect some degree of training anyway. But there’s only so much that can be tested for before hiring someone. A degree is just a reference from the university that you meet their standards of mastery at whatever major at whatever level. Some jobs expect you to have one just like some expect you to have references from individuals, but others will have other tests for qualification which may even just be an interview conversation. Apprenticeships are pretty similar; each is an individual or group staking their reputation on vouching for your competency. Even a GED or high school diploma is a reference, just from an organization or a public institution.
Aye, you aren’t wrong, that’s my whole point though, in the end, it’s just one entity vouching for the other. While school can have some standardization I’ve met enough people from schools with paper in hand that I would never have thought competent enough to weild that paper. So why is this one entity have so much more sway than others? I’m simply saying all the options should be considered and not hard locked off because that paper doesn’t exist.
For instance, I have an older family member who’s an OG senior program engineer with a resume that is just astoundingly impressive. No doubt most people who’ve had a computer would recognize their work. Like, sincerely impressive. They struggled to find a job for 4-5 years because they lacked a programming degree.
I don’t disagree with degrees as a method, I disagree with using them as a universal, only way method. I, myself, am not a degree weilding graduate but I did work my way up through sheer knowledge. It was a heck of a struggle that took a long, long time. I feel others should be able to do what I did with lower thresholds to jobs if they know their work. Trial periods, internships, contract work, and job competency testing should be reasonable options when hiring, regardless of what entity backs them.
Yeah I actually work in a dev team where about half of us picked up programming outside of college. That includes our boss, who’s also the most technically proficient in my opinion. He went through a Microsoft-certified boot camp instead. Some of my uncles are engineers that had college paid for by their company, since they were already shown to be valuable workers without it.
I get the appeal of being able to just look for a candidate’s school instead of doing more heavy-lifting when evaluating a candidate, but the growing over-reliance is to everyone’s detriment. Companies will be missing out on some real talent, and qualified applicants have trouble getting the opportunity to prove themselves.
A degree shows that you can complete a long-term multi-phase project involving a large variety of tasks and disciplines while following the rules established by the organization.
All a work history says for lots of jobs is that you followed dress code and showed up. It doesn’t mean you accomplished anything.
And it often says nothing about your ability to perform tasks unsupervised or willingness to delay graticifation. Someone working for 4+ years without payment to prepare for the future appears more forward-looking to lots of employers than the person who went to work straight out of high school.
Is it always fair? No. But all else being equal I’ll hire someone with a degree every time, so when I have limited time and 300 resumes with only 25 of them have degrees, guess which 275 I’m gonna instantly eliminate?
Sure, you can absolutely do that. That being said, you can literally buy degrees, you can also scrape by and learn nothing and still wind up with a degree. If an adult cant perform their job unsupervised than they aren’t a good candidate regardless.
If someone maintains a job it shows that they can at least do what is required to not get fired which means some kind of work performance is done. You can’t just show up with a tie and do nothing, if you can than the business itself has problems. My whole point is only that degrees are way overvalued over other means, and you made my exact point. Discounting hundreds of people who could have more direct knowledge on what you’re doing over someone who could have never touched a live process because of a piece of paper.
You’re just cheating yourself out of good candidates because you feel the process is too hard, which overall hurts the business.
As a self learner, knowing this, I’d like to have a word with whomever set requirements for any job requiring a degree.
Probably those who had massive errors happen because people bullshitted their way into a position. Certification is important. It’s impossible to test all the bits of knowledge required for a position every time someone applies for a position with the potential for huge fuckups (doctor, engineer, pilot, etc.)
I don’t want to be in the plane with the self taught pilot, even though I think the requirements in the US are kinda bullshit.
I’m not denying that schools are fleecing students and jobs have some protectionism going on with certifications, but there’s a balance to be struck. These requirements happened for a reason.
I’m a firm believer that as long as you can show you knowledge and can accomplish the job, the piece of paper is unnecessary. It’s also why I think apprentiships should be more of a thing again. Degrees are a very modern thing that while a very useful tool, isn’t being used right.
Of course, and any job will expect some degree of training anyway. But there’s only so much that can be tested for before hiring someone. A degree is just a reference from the university that you meet their standards of mastery at whatever major at whatever level. Some jobs expect you to have one just like some expect you to have references from individuals, but others will have other tests for qualification which may even just be an interview conversation. Apprenticeships are pretty similar; each is an individual or group staking their reputation on vouching for your competency. Even a GED or high school diploma is a reference, just from an organization or a public institution.
Aye, you aren’t wrong, that’s my whole point though, in the end, it’s just one entity vouching for the other. While school can have some standardization I’ve met enough people from schools with paper in hand that I would never have thought competent enough to weild that paper. So why is this one entity have so much more sway than others? I’m simply saying all the options should be considered and not hard locked off because that paper doesn’t exist.
For instance, I have an older family member who’s an OG senior program engineer with a resume that is just astoundingly impressive. No doubt most people who’ve had a computer would recognize their work. Like, sincerely impressive. They struggled to find a job for 4-5 years because they lacked a programming degree.
I don’t disagree with degrees as a method, I disagree with using them as a universal, only way method. I, myself, am not a degree weilding graduate but I did work my way up through sheer knowledge. It was a heck of a struggle that took a long, long time. I feel others should be able to do what I did with lower thresholds to jobs if they know their work. Trial periods, internships, contract work, and job competency testing should be reasonable options when hiring, regardless of what entity backs them.
Yeah I actually work in a dev team where about half of us picked up programming outside of college. That includes our boss, who’s also the most technically proficient in my opinion. He went through a Microsoft-certified boot camp instead. Some of my uncles are engineers that had college paid for by their company, since they were already shown to be valuable workers without it.
I get the appeal of being able to just look for a candidate’s school instead of doing more heavy-lifting when evaluating a candidate, but the growing over-reliance is to everyone’s detriment. Companies will be missing out on some real talent, and qualified applicants have trouble getting the opportunity to prove themselves.
A degree shows that you can complete a long-term multi-phase project involving a large variety of tasks and disciplines while following the rules established by the organization.
So can a resume, or work history
All a work history says for lots of jobs is that you followed dress code and showed up. It doesn’t mean you accomplished anything.
And it often says nothing about your ability to perform tasks unsupervised or willingness to delay graticifation. Someone working for 4+ years without payment to prepare for the future appears more forward-looking to lots of employers than the person who went to work straight out of high school.
Is it always fair? No. But all else being equal I’ll hire someone with a degree every time, so when I have limited time and 300 resumes with only 25 of them have degrees, guess which 275 I’m gonna instantly eliminate?
Sure, you can absolutely do that. That being said, you can literally buy degrees, you can also scrape by and learn nothing and still wind up with a degree. If an adult cant perform their job unsupervised than they aren’t a good candidate regardless.
If someone maintains a job it shows that they can at least do what is required to not get fired which means some kind of work performance is done. You can’t just show up with a tie and do nothing, if you can than the business itself has problems. My whole point is only that degrees are way overvalued over other means, and you made my exact point. Discounting hundreds of people who could have more direct knowledge on what you’re doing over someone who could have never touched a live process because of a piece of paper.
You’re just cheating yourself out of good candidates because you feel the process is too hard, which overall hurts the business.
The degree isn’t proof that you know things, but that you can get through a certain set of ordeals.
: ( like yeah man just gimme a change for a sec and you’ll see I can hang with the big dogs