- cross-posted to:
- music@beehaw.org
- cross-posted to:
- music@beehaw.org
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Green Day used to be anti-establishment, now they are the establishment.
American Idiot is almost 20 years old and the message hasn’t changed. Do these people just have zero media literacy?
Yes. They also think Rage Against the Machine “got political”.
RATM.
Remember when Tom Morello had to slap down Paul Ryan? https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-news/tom-morello-paul-ryan-is-the-embodiment-of-the-machine-our-music-rages-against-246033/
chef’s kiss
Morello is a crazy talented guitarist and overall nice guy but he’s also really intelligent and educated which tees up idiots for easy humiliation. He rocks in all the ways.
Tom Morello went to Harvard and got a PoliSci degree.
Ah, yes. The far away time when “Far Right” just meant ideologically conservative and not the wannabe brownshirts. So long ago, 2012.
A simpler time.
Republicans and Wealthy businessmen plotted a Nazi style overthrow of FDR and the US government in the 1930s. Republican Nazis have been a trope and a joke throughout the last 40 to 50 years. I’ll give you this, they went from being quiet and out of sight to front and center.
Take the power back.
Also, WAKE UP
That is my second favourite thing to happen on the internet ever.
What’s your first?
https://youtu.be/rokAtlFGa7Y?t=2088&si=9hcvrdysNfdXQmwG
There’s a bit of context here…
Pink Floyd’s The Wall. It’s a fine movie where the metaphor swings between subtle as a shadow’s whisper and blunt force trauma.
Derivative Angry Video Game Nerd Clone makes a “parody” of it, but misses an incredibly obvious Nazi reference. Which is not a good look as a white skinhead.
The fact he missed something so plainly obvious makes me laugh, a lot. It so clear he skimmed the movie looking for things to make fun of.
Yes
Media literacy has never been a thing with conservatives - to this day they don’t understand what the Bruce Springsteen song ‘Born In The USA’ is really about. Reagan famously wanted to use it for his campaign in 1984.
Also somehow conservatives have been so keen on appearing as ‘not the establishment’ that by now they have terminally deluded themselves into believing that they really aren’t part of the establishment. How their voters believe this is anyone’s guess.
And let’s not talk about how the self-proclaimed defenders of free speech constantly take issue with speech they don’t like.
"Since when did punk rock talk about politics "
Ummmm… pretty sure that’s a defining point.
Says the party who dances to rage against the machine while literally fighting for the machine
New band idea: Rage for the machine, a band for moody conservatives who like licking boots
Kid Rock has entered chat.
Punk band upsets establishment. News at 11.
I don’t man, I don’t consider them punk punk but pop punk, but still doesn’t change your statement.
I’m still surprised punk hasn’t made a come back. We are dying of old age and this is the right environment for punk to flourish.
The least punk thing is to gatekeep the genre.
classifying in genres is by definition gatekeeping. somewhere you have to draw a line between punk and everything else, otherwise the term punk loses all meaning.
“Genres are the death of creativity”
stupid sentiment.
Classifying them pop rock would be gatekeeping. I still classified them within the punk genre and still agreed with their statement of punk.
People have been saying Green Day aren’t punk since Dookie. That’s always been a thing with punk. Once you leave the underground clubs of NYC, you’re pop.
The day Trump was elected I was excited for a new wave of anti-government human-rights protest music. The best we got was “This Is America”.
Edit: I appreciate the few examples you’ve offered but I was thinking of the movements of the 60s and 80s. It wasn’t just the hippie peace love anti war music or rap music, it was poetry, fiction, movies, documentaries. It was the culture around the people rising up to protest their government. Now any shmoe can tweet at the president.
Oh shit! How could I forget the best of the best when it comes to leftist punk: Propagandhi! "Less Talk More Rock and Today’s Empires, Tomorrow’s Ashes are essential listening. I’m hella dating myself with these albums, the Adderall has kicked in way too late I guess
Dead milkmen made a comeback.
NOFX atleast had “The War On Errorism” during the W years, but it was mostly whelming
Not punk but industrial. Though KMFDM has always been political. But there’s a few tracks on the new album that are far less subtle than usual.
Also forgot to point out that punk was a product of its time. And it’s environment. Very much a DIY ethic. Which lent to its sound. DIY today is going to sound a lot different. Unless people are going to ape the sound without any of the influence.
Even many of the iconic punkers got tired of it and moved on when new things became available. As mentioned John Lyden AKA Johnny rotten. Left the pistols for Public Image limited. Last I heard Jell-O was still trying to get into California politics?
TL;Dr: Long, rambling old man shit incoming.
You’re absolutely right. The DIY landscape is so incredibly different. Now you can get an electric guitar with reasonable QC and an amp with modeling and a hundred presets that plugs directly into your computer to record. There’s loads of free lessons online that show people how to play instruments. There are tabs for almost every song put out by any semi-popular artist so you don’t have to try to reverse engineer them anymore. There are backing tracks. We didn’t have any of that shit. We had a solid state amp with two channels, one of which was poorly distorted.
And I’m here for it. It’s not my dad’s punk. It’s not my punk and pop punk. It belongs to new people and I’m excited for them to look back at it the way I look back at the bands that excited me when I was a kid. They’ll have new genres built upon the shoulders of the ones I listened to, which stood on the shoulders of those that came before.
Yep at the time an old guitar and a beat-up drum set was realistically what you’re getting. Maybe a basic organ / keyboard. Which is what led to the distinct sound along with General lack of production and mastering.
Now you can pick up second hand synthesizer sequencers etc etc etc. The Landscapes opened up a lot more and as you said with digital audio workstations Etc pretty much make any sort of sound you want.
Plus Lydon is a Right-Winger now.
Huh, TIL. He’s a shitbag, but I really think guys like him do it because being a backwards ass hat is unpopular now and he only knows how to be against things, not for them.
I was like that in my teens and early 20s. Not conservative, just hated anything that appeared popular. I was insufferable. This dude really seems like an old ass pizza cutter. All edge, no point.
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Lyden did some rather deadpan adverts for Country Life a few years back.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8hzQsvxtLTMAnd honestly? I think it was pretty funny.
He looks like a poor mans Rik Mayall. RIP Rik.
I grew up in (what I perceive as) the heyday of punk, but mostly ignored it. Lately I’ve been tempted to take a closer look at some of those old punk bands I always heard about back in the day.
Those kids were right. Not so much as adults anymore some of them. John Lydon in particular having become a bit of a disappointment. But it’s still a fun era and easy to listen through. Seeing as it really encompassed about a 5 to 6 year span.
Post Punk/ dance Punk is having a bit of a Resurgence again though. Lots of good new stuff coming out. Though not as much political necessarily.
it’s still a fun era and easy to listen through
Posing the same question as I did to someone else - can you recommend an entry point or two? Heavy on the political/social messaging is fine with me, but a more understandable lyrical style than what I remember of a lot of those old punk bands would be preferred.
Wikipedia has a decent list to get an entry point. At least for the big ones. Start following any of those through YouTube Spotify Etc and you’ll get down into rabbit holes of small bands that only put out a few songs as live bootlegs that only five people in the world remember. Rabbit holes are always a good time.
Thank you!
Punk was a musical big bang of a sort. I spend most of my time in adjacent subgenre. Most people do without realizing it honestly. Postpunk, goth, new wave, alternative, and industrial all descend from it. As well as other genera like ska, psychobilly, and horror punk. Though I’d argue that a lot of the political sentiment today is in industrial and EBM. Alec Empire and Atari Teenage Riot 20 years ago were suuuper political. I mentioned KMFDM elsewhere, they go way way back to the early 80s. Even Trent Reznor and nine inch nails, very political. Even male model Marc Massive and his group Massive Ego. Really continues the political and social commentary.
I would recommend listening to some.
I will do - can you recommend an entry point or two? Heavy on the political/social messaging is fine with me, but a more understandable lyrical style than what I remember of a lot of those old punk bands would be preferred.
The partisans, subhumans, the exploited, discharge.
Cheap sex, the casualties, cockney rejects for newer late 90s early 2k. Some of the ones I think would be what your are looking for.
Hardcore punk, oi, crust, anachro punk.
Thank you, I’ve saved this comment to use for reference.
At least they have been pretty consistent in their lean.
That’s true.
Check out Desaparecidos, side project of Conor Oberst. They have 2 albums, one in 2002, one in 2015, both just as relevant today.
I’m down with you being all in on the statement but I have a question for you.
What would you consider Punk in 1990 or even 94?
Like coming out in those years or still playing during those years?
I would day both. What do you consider punk during that time?
Narcoleptic youth, total chaos, rancid, one way system, nofx, penny wise.
Playing? TSOL, circle jerks, the adicts, D.I, the exploited
On Wikipedia Rancid, NOFX, Penny Wise all have a similar paragraph about all the other bands that came out of the same area and Green Day is in all of them.
Green Day may have shifted over time into Rock or Pop Punk as you say but make no mistake when they originated they were Punk. Especially if NOFX, Penny Wise, and Rancid is. The problem is that when a band hits it, they are usually tagged with whatever they were defined as from then on. So they are punk because they were originally punk. I know I am arguing and I am not meaning to. Just trying to point out that there isn’t much reason to say they aren’t punk anymore.
It’s like my argument about “hover boards” I lost that one a long time ago and it doesn’t help anyone to keep correcting people an say it’s not a hoverboard. The name stuck from the start.
The revolution will not be televised. It’s out there but there’s no money behind having them go big anymore.
Never ceases to amaze me when “fans” of a band appear to completely ignore their lyrics. Are these people who only know “Longview” and “Time of your Life?”
I loved when Republicans were screaming at rage against the machine to stop making political music, like… what machine do you think they’re raging against? The mcdonalds icecream machines?
Cause the Hooooook brings you baack
I’ve had times in my life where I’m oblivious to lyrics, and times when I’m really tuned in to them. So I can see how people get carried along with the music regardless of the lyrics.
It’s still funny when people make realizations like this though.
Love bands that just put it out there
Otep - Kult45
Slipknot - We Are Not Your Kind
They don’t want to hear him they just want to dance
Yes.
What year is it? Are they going to be offended by SouthPark next?
cuntservatives have been outraged by SOMETHING literally every year I have existed on this planet, and my first console controller only had one button…
Still remember my mother freaking out over a satanic panic and throwing away all of my action figures because I was apparently worshipping satan by playing with my Ninja Turtles.
They think the Olympic games were somehow against them too and got triggered. Conservatives are the biggest freaking snowflakes
Shocked Pikachu Face when France does a weird performance art thing.
Obviously this was meant to be offensive to me!
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I’m sorry objective reality is sad for you.
Did these conservatives miss American Idiot, or are they just being reactionary as they so often are?
This is the same group of people who (somehow) thought Killing in the Name Of was aligned with their views, and now make comments like “I liked RATM until they got so political.”
Most of them are just peanut brains with the Goldfish attention span who only like the sound but never listen to the lyrics. Hell one of the local grocery stores around here in their mix has a few tracks by the stones in particular give me shelter. It’s an iconic song. But most people have no idea what the lyrics are. It’s sort of surreal to walk through the store listening to the singer scream out rape and murder it’s just a shot away. It’s a fun sort of irony I suppose.
Tbf, they did sell out a tad after that album
American Idiot and the what, 3 albums before it and all the following, were all on Reprise Records (Warner). American Idiot specifically had some very strong marketing campaigns. If one really does subscribe to that “selling out” rhetoric, they did so much earlier than that.
So Green Day does the most Green Day thing ever and the MAGA crowd loses their minds. Who are the snowflakes again?
Wtf were they expecting? Like, it’s green day, they’ve always been pretty forward about their politics, and it’s been in the lyrics the entire time.
Seriously. I don’t even listen to Green Day, and even I know that this isn’t new territory for them. Did these people not know about American Idiot and who that was about?
Pretty much, yeah. They’re American idiots lol.
Trump supporters are the American idiot
Imo, this is the coolest thing Green Day has done since “Nimrod”
“Conservatives freaking out that a popular pop punk band aren’t actually right wing psychopaths?! News at 11”
Again, they did exactly this last new year.
https://www.newsweek.com/green-day-maga-trump-new-years-eve-1856855
I chuckled heartily earlier today when I saw a post on the front page of the R-word site that was posted to the conservative sub. It was a picture of the band holding up a mask of Trump with idiot written on it and a title along the lines of “After Trump assassination attempt, Green Day holds up head of Donald Trump”.
Literally, it was just a mask of Trump with something like “Idiot” written on it from a band that quite literally is known for criticizing the government (understatement).
They were making it sound like it was an implicit threat to Trump and hateful rhetoric inciting further violence.
I swear there must be some brain damage involved in those types of conclusions.
Meanwhile there were several effigies of Obama with a noose around their necks
no no no, you see that was just a metaphor for states rights.
Methinks this moron started the pearl clutching:
What a bunch of snowflakes.
Oh do conservatives not like a bisexual man singing about how bush is a war criminal anymore?
ROFL!! Apparently the folks complaining haven’t actually ever listened to Green Day. Though the severed Trump head at the concert was probably a bit much.
It was a mask, “severed trump head” is an extreme and inaccurate description.
maga chuds live on extreme and inaccurate descriptions.
Maybe they’re confusing the mask with the Kathy Griffin photo from years back?
I went to a green day concert before trump was even president and they had the crowd cheering that line, its not new. They were awesome by the way.
