That’s great info and I’ll check it out. But I mean in regard to this meme: what do we do now? Because this meme seems to be addressing the 2024 general election in the US and it makes it seem like there’s 3 voting options. But to my knowledge, there isn’t a popular 3rd party that meets progressive or anarchistic values. So is this suggesting not to vote? Other direct action like a strike? And if so how does that address the issue of the election this brings up?
The third box is smaller to reflect that it isn’t a “real” option. I only added it because I thought only the two wouldn’t be fitting for this community (and also complaining without providing an alternative is not useful). It’s more of an open question. eg “You need to do something else because voting will not stop fascism.”
In the FAQ there are questions like J.2.9 “What do anarchist do instead of voting?” and J.7.4 “What would a social revolution involve?”. These might help answer your questions.
In general there is no easy solution. For Americans to fix their system they need to fight for real democracy. I think trying to get rid of FPTP is a good start. However I do not put much faith in any election reform succeeding. My personal (european (although it shouldn’t matter)) opinion is that americans should try do build communities outside of government control so when things go bad they have someone to rely on.
I made this meme to just point out something I thought a lot about when scrolling through lemmy and that’s that voting isn’t enough because the best you can do is delay the inevitable. You can vote, but that won’t make a meaningful change.
It’s more of an open question. eg “You need to do something else because voting will not stop fascism.”
In the FAQ there are questions like J.2.9 “What do anarchist do instead of voting?
So this was an undercurrent I wanted to address: are you suggesting that Americans not vote in the 2024 general election? Because I feel that’s incredibly short-sighted and damaging. I agree with your points of working to get ranked choice voting and other measures passed in all states quickly. But people still need to vote against the obvious fascist candidate in the short term. Damage control is important because if Trump gets elected, no one is going to have time to organize. The last 4 years I only occasionally check the news or when I see stuff on Lemmy. When Trump was President, I was checking the general news feeds multiple times a day to ensure that he didn’t do yet another insane and damaging thing that I had to immediately plan for. And I’m in a privileged class. Vulnerable people have to do so much more to stay safe and a second Trump presidency will get thousands killed. No one’s going to have time to campaign against FPTP when they are organizing just to stay safe from government and militia persecution. If Trump gets elected again, it’s pretty much over. And anyone eager for a civil war hasn’t looked out enough to see what hell that is.
Anarchist Library: At its most basic, voting implies agreement with the status quo.
This is silly and reductive. Voting is damage control. Not voting is handing one of your only means of change and your voice away to your worst enemies. I’ll look into it more, but that’s a false premise to start on. It’s idealistic to the point of self-destruction.
You can vote, but that won’t make a meaningful change.
Medicine doesn’t stop death forever, either. And until we can cure the fascism or put in enough barriers to prevent it, we still must survive in the short term. Diatribe over.
My personal (european (although it shouldn’t matter)) opinion is that americans should try do build communities outside of government control so when things go bad they have someone to rely on.
Do you have any suggestions on what that looks like? Because Americans have all the same communities and groups Europeans do: unions (lesser extent), religious groups, community organizations (school based, local government), LGBT+ organizations, local political orgs, hobby groups, etc. But I don’t see how that directly helps matters. They will provide community and potentially safe spaces, but only if they aren’t infiltrated. And if there’s a fascist government, there likely won’t be any groups outside government control. They will seize control of everything and make illegal anything they don’t control. So I guess I don’t understand what type of groups you are referring to.
So this was an undercurrent I wanted to address: are you suggesting that Americans not vote in the 2024 general election?
As the meme says voting blue means a 4 year snooze. I am not telling anyone whether they should vote or not. Just pointing out how I see the current election. The points you make are sensible and I think if I were in the USA I would vote because of the reasons you listed.
I’m copying some quotes from the FAQ that I think fit in this conversation.
But considering the state of the US I think that at the moment voting is a useful tactic to buy time for organizing, not a solution.
J.2.8: anarchists don’t just say “don’t vote”, we say “organise” as well.
J2.5 last paragraph: […] anarchists urge abstentionism in order to encourage activity, not apathy. Not voting is not enough, and anarchists urge people to organise and resist as well.
And when it comes to the last paragraph I must admit I am short of ideas. All of the groups you listed have a chance of helping, organization doesn’t need to start with a political group, once you have a group together you can start talking about anarchist organization and see how people react.
As an anarchist I believe that revolution starts with the people. Get enough people together with a common goal (or a shared dream if you want to be poetic) and you will have a revolution. This might seem pointless since you’re so small, but every revolution needs to start somewhere. And I believe only a revolution can fix the USA right now.
There are also some anarchist orgs like http://iww.org. I wish I knew more.
They will seize control of everything and make illegal anything they don’t control.
That’s why it’s important to create these groups now. Once the fascist are in power it’s too late.
Damage control is important because if Trump gets elected, no one is going to have time to organize. The last 4 years I only occasionally check the news or when I see stuff on Lemmy. When Trump was President, I was checking the general news feeds multiple times a day to ensure that he didn’t do yet another insane and damaging thing that I had to immediately plan for.
I think it’s worthwhile to point out that keeping yourself aware of what you’re organizing against is possibly the bare minimum of organizing.
I’m not advocating for a trump presidency, but I think this gives some credence to what accelerationists are saying
I wish more people who are concerned about the 2024 election would take that anxiety and join progressive groups now, not wait until after the election, because not only do you have the motivation to take action now it’s also a good way to push the conversation further left and put pressure on the 2024 candidates. I know my local DSA chapter has seen an uptick in new members, but I am quite certain I see a lot of people on here pulling their hair out over the stress but refusing to join a cause.
If you’re spending your time insisting people vote in order to kick the can down the road, then you should also be spending your time organizing for the cause now and not waiting until the crisis is postponed.
That’s great info and I’ll check it out. But I mean in regard to this meme: what do we do now? Because this meme seems to be addressing the 2024 general election in the US and it makes it seem like there’s 3 voting options. But to my knowledge, there isn’t a popular 3rd party that meets progressive or anarchistic values. So is this suggesting not to vote? Other direct action like a strike? And if so how does that address the issue of the election this brings up?
The third box is smaller to reflect that it isn’t a “real” option. I only added it because I thought only the two wouldn’t be fitting for this community (and also complaining without providing an alternative is not useful). It’s more of an open question. eg “You need to do something else because voting will not stop fascism.”
In the FAQ there are questions like J.2.9 “What do anarchist do instead of voting?” and J.7.4 “What would a social revolution involve?”. These might help answer your questions.
In general there is no easy solution. For Americans to fix their system they need to fight for real democracy. I think trying to get rid of FPTP is a good start. However I do not put much faith in any election reform succeeding. My personal (european (although it shouldn’t matter)) opinion is that americans should try do build communities outside of government control so when things go bad they have someone to rely on.
I made this meme to just point out something I thought a lot about when scrolling through lemmy and that’s that voting isn’t enough because the best you can do is delay the inevitable. You can vote, but that won’t make a meaningful change.
So this was an undercurrent I wanted to address: are you suggesting that Americans not vote in the 2024 general election? Because I feel that’s incredibly short-sighted and damaging. I agree with your points of working to get ranked choice voting and other measures passed in all states quickly. But people still need to vote against the obvious fascist candidate in the short term. Damage control is important because if Trump gets elected, no one is going to have time to organize. The last 4 years I only occasionally check the news or when I see stuff on Lemmy. When Trump was President, I was checking the general news feeds multiple times a day to ensure that he didn’t do yet another insane and damaging thing that I had to immediately plan for. And I’m in a privileged class. Vulnerable people have to do so much more to stay safe and a second Trump presidency will get thousands killed. No one’s going to have time to campaign against FPTP when they are organizing just to stay safe from government and militia persecution. If Trump gets elected again, it’s pretty much over. And anyone eager for a civil war hasn’t looked out enough to see what hell that is.
This is silly and reductive. Voting is damage control. Not voting is handing one of your only means of change and your voice away to your worst enemies. I’ll look into it more, but that’s a false premise to start on. It’s idealistic to the point of self-destruction.
Medicine doesn’t stop death forever, either. And until we can cure the fascism or put in enough barriers to prevent it, we still must survive in the short term. Diatribe over.
Do you have any suggestions on what that looks like? Because Americans have all the same communities and groups Europeans do: unions (lesser extent), religious groups, community organizations (school based, local government), LGBT+ organizations, local political orgs, hobby groups, etc. But I don’t see how that directly helps matters. They will provide community and potentially safe spaces, but only if they aren’t infiltrated. And if there’s a fascist government, there likely won’t be any groups outside government control. They will seize control of everything and make illegal anything they don’t control. So I guess I don’t understand what type of groups you are referring to.
As the meme says voting blue means a 4 year snooze. I am not telling anyone whether they should vote or not. Just pointing out how I see the current election. The points you make are sensible and I think if I were in the USA I would vote because of the reasons you listed.
I’m copying some quotes from the FAQ that I think fit in this conversation.
But considering the state of the US I think that at the moment voting is a useful tactic to buy time for organizing, not a solution.
And when it comes to the last paragraph I must admit I am short of ideas. All of the groups you listed have a chance of helping, organization doesn’t need to start with a political group, once you have a group together you can start talking about anarchist organization and see how people react.
As an anarchist I believe that revolution starts with the people. Get enough people together with a common goal (or a shared dream if you want to be poetic) and you will have a revolution. This might seem pointless since you’re so small, but every revolution needs to start somewhere. And I believe only a revolution can fix the USA right now.
There are also some anarchist orgs like http://iww.org. I wish I knew more.
That’s why it’s important to create these groups now. Once the fascist are in power it’s too late.
I think it’s worthwhile to point out that keeping yourself aware of what you’re organizing against is possibly the bare minimum of organizing.
I’m not advocating for a trump presidency, but I think this gives some credence to what accelerationists are saying
I wish more people who are concerned about the 2024 election would take that anxiety and join progressive groups now, not wait until after the election, because not only do you have the motivation to take action now it’s also a good way to push the conversation further left and put pressure on the 2024 candidates. I know my local DSA chapter has seen an uptick in new members, but I am quite certain I see a lot of people on here pulling their hair out over the stress but refusing to join a cause.
If you’re spending your time insisting people vote in order to kick the can down the road, then you should also be spending your time organizing for the cause now and not waiting until the crisis is postponed.