Funny, those guys don't usually agree on that much - eviltoast

Do any of them know what the word “liberal” actually means?

  • Tryptaminev@lemm.ee
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    6 months ago

    1 favorable to progress or reform, as in political or religious affairs.

    2 noting or pertaining to a political party advocating measures of progressive political reform.

    3 of, pertaining to, based on, or advocating liberalism, especially the freedom of the individual and governmental guarantees of individual rights and liberties.

    4 favorable to or in accord with concepts of maximum individual freedom possible, especially as guaranteed by law and secured by governmental protection of civil liberties.

    5 favoring or permitting freedom of action, especially with respect to matters of personal belief or expression:

    6 of or relating to representational forms of government rather than aristocracies and monarchies.

    7 free from prejudice or bigotry; tolerant

    8 open-minded or tolerant, especially free of or not bound by traditional or conventional ideas, values, etc.

    Only 5,7 and 8 are “open minded” Being favorable to progress does not mean being open minded and what constitutes as progressive is in itself up to debate. Individual rights and liberties can be understood as neo-liberal capitalism of “well the law allows you, your economic situation doesn’t concern us, and now back to slaving 60 hours a week.” Or it could mean “We need to enable people to enjoy their liberties so we need to ensure their basic human dignity with healthcare, education and social welfare to empower them.”

    • kameecoding@lemmy.world
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      6 months ago

      what the fuck is number 1 then?

      favorable to progress or reform, as in political or religious affairs.

      what is number 2 then?

      noting or pertaining to a political party advocating measures of progressive political reform.

      I think if you go point by point and ignore the rest then you can argue semantics, but I don’t see how you can take all 8 together and argue what “progressive” means

      • Tryptaminev@lemm.ee
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        6 months ago

        Being favorable to reform does not mean being open minded. Open minded means to respect different people and their life choices. People hostile to traditional family or religious values are also “progressive” but often not open minded as they criticize people who choose a traditional way of life.

        The same goes for economic aspects. Neoliberalism is highly authoritarian. Specifically it is embraced by neofeudalists who want to reestablish their old feudal privileges but not through formal aristocracy, but by the merit of “free contracts” and them holding on to wealth. These are technically “progressive” yet they want to reintroduce power structures from a time past.