I think our bias is that a huge portion of us are scientists and engineers, so the things that bother us aren’t the same things that bother everyone else. Most people don’t worry about how their car works, or want to repair it themselves, etc.
Im not buying this. If it could be demonstrated, I’d be willing to bet that at least 99% of the people who upvoted this have never even changed a spark plug, let alone anything actually complicated or difficult with their car.
It’s clearly en vogue on lemmy to hate on Tesla, which is almost certainly why this has so many upvotes. I just don’t get why people have to pretend the cars are shit when seemingly it’s really about hating musk.
I’m part of that 1% and I’ll echo the “Tesla hate” for that very reason. I do the vast majority of maintenance and repair on my vehicles – something I picked up as a broke young man that couldn’t afford to do otherwise.
I’m not buying something that’s designed to actively prevent me from working on it myself. And the other “99%” of people are absolutely right in being upset since independent repair shops are no longer an option. With no competition they’re at the whim of Tesla when it comes to the cost and time-frame of repair work.
Since when are independent shops no longer an option? I just checked their site and it says you can take it to independent shops, but risk warranty.
I can’t speak to the work that would be done on it, but in a proof is in the pudding type of guy (being an engineer myself, who also used to do most of the work on my car) and the evidence seems to suggest people are happy with their Teslas, not so much with their printers.
Apparently I’m going off of old information. I just found out there are independent shops that are certified by Tesla to do work now, although it looks (and correct me if I’m wrong) like they’re limited to “routine” maintenance and repairs. It also looks like many of the tools required for repair are locked behind said certification.
Exactly. Until the battery can be worked on (i.e. the most expensive part) with full documentation and support from Tesla, then I’m not going to consider it. I can replace the engine and any part of the drive train that I want on pretty much any ICE car.
I understand that there are safety issues here, but without documentation, users are left with reverse engineering, which is even more dangerous. Tesla’s stance so far is, “if there’s damage, replace it,” which is just another way of saying “planned obsolescence” since replacement of a battery pack is ~3/4 of the price of the car.
Then there’s the BS all car manufacturers are seeming to do these days in tracking users and keeping things locked away from user control (e.g. disabling data collection). It’s getting increasingly difficult to find a reasonably privacy-respecting vehicle, and EVs are the worst offenders here.
If an EV comes along with:
independent shop-serviceable battery packs
no data collection (or at least user-verifiable, opt-out data collection)
everything aside from battery packs are user serviceable with full documentation
I’ll probably get it. I’m especially interested in sodium-ion EVs since they should be far less expensive and probably safer. I don’t need anything fancy, I just need to get to work, and I’d really prefer to do that without being tracked by the car manufacturer.
The claim was that it was designed to actively stop you from working on it yourself.
Your “evidence” are people who live on your block and your boss.
And, of course, far more importantly, I referenced the owner satisfaction survey CR. You conveniently ignored that. Doesn’t seem to me you’re arguing in good faith.
Which is perfectly valid, imo. It’s a very similar reason as to why people boycott Nestle products. It’s not necessarily because Nestle products themselves are unsatisfactory, it’s because people take issue with Nestle’s leadership and the executive decisions they make.
Yup. Cars don’t have carburators anymore (fuel injection ftw), but if you can work on your lawnmower’s carburetor, you can fix most things on a car. All you need are:
OBD2 scanner - crappy ones can be had for $20, but so yourself a favor and get a good one (so you don’t burn out your car’s computer)
basic tools - wrenches and screwdrivers - usually only need one or two sizes, not a full set
YouTube
patience
If you have those, you can do most ICE and EV maintenance. Parts and documentation are generally available.
EVs are a different beast. If you’re doing anything beyond the very basics (e.g. tires, headlights, etc), you’ll have no documentation and may void your warranty.
Well so does Apple. Well, BSD, really, of which Mac OS is a heavily modified version. But who gives a shit as it’s lacking the most important part of BSD - the license. We’d rather praise Microsoft for open-sourcing stuff instead.
You can’t bring up BSD and not finish the pedantic history of macOS. Leave it at “macOS is a UNIX” or get into the weeds.
macOS userland (i.e. terminal commands) is mostly FreeBSD with some stuff from other BSDs. However, the kernel is a separate project entirely and comes from NEXT (Steve Jobs’ project when he briefly left Apple), which was based on the Mach microkernel. Both FreeBSD and Linux use monolithic kernels, and there’s pretty much no shared heritage there with macOS. Also, macOS uses its own init (launchd), filesystems (HFS+), etc, and doesn’t support the standard stuff in BSD (e.g. FreeBSD init, UFS, ZFS) or the standard stuff in Linux (e.g. sysvinit, systemd, ext4, etc).
The overlap between macOS and Linux is essentially zero other than some shared UNIX idioms and a few packages like bash. The overlap between macOS and FreeBSD is the userland, which most people don’t interact with unless they’re terminal nerds like me. The overlap is just the macOS borrowed a lot of open source stuff, it’s not really based on FreeBSD at all.
I think our bias is that a huge portion of us are scientists and engineers, so the things that bother us aren’t the same things that bother everyone else. Most people don’t worry about how their car works, or want to repair it themselves, etc.
It’s not the car for a Linux user.
Im not buying this. If it could be demonstrated, I’d be willing to bet that at least 99% of the people who upvoted this have never even changed a spark plug, let alone anything actually complicated or difficult with their car.
It’s clearly en vogue on lemmy to hate on Tesla, which is almost certainly why this has so many upvotes. I just don’t get why people have to pretend the cars are shit when seemingly it’s really about hating musk.
I’m part of that 1% and I’ll echo the “Tesla hate” for that very reason. I do the vast majority of maintenance and repair on my vehicles – something I picked up as a broke young man that couldn’t afford to do otherwise.
I’m not buying something that’s designed to actively prevent me from working on it myself. And the other “99%” of people are absolutely right in being upset since independent repair shops are no longer an option. With no competition they’re at the whim of Tesla when it comes to the cost and time-frame of repair work.
Since when are independent shops no longer an option? I just checked their site and it says you can take it to independent shops, but risk warranty.
I can’t speak to the work that would be done on it, but in a proof is in the pudding type of guy (being an engineer myself, who also used to do most of the work on my car) and the evidence seems to suggest people are happy with their Teslas, not so much with their printers.
Apparently I’m going off of old information. I just found out there are independent shops that are certified by Tesla to do work now, although it looks (and correct me if I’m wrong) like they’re limited to “routine” maintenance and repairs. It also looks like many of the tools required for repair are locked behind said certification.
So the situation is better than it was 3+ years ago, but my new stance is there are still serious right-to-repair issues with Tesla that precludes me from buying one.
Exactly. Until the battery can be worked on (i.e. the most expensive part) with full documentation and support from Tesla, then I’m not going to consider it. I can replace the engine and any part of the drive train that I want on pretty much any ICE car.
I understand that there are safety issues here, but without documentation, users are left with reverse engineering, which is even more dangerous. Tesla’s stance so far is, “if there’s damage, replace it,” which is just another way of saying “planned obsolescence” since replacement of a battery pack is ~3/4 of the price of the car.
Then there’s the BS all car manufacturers are seeming to do these days in tracking users and keeping things locked away from user control (e.g. disabling data collection). It’s getting increasingly difficult to find a reasonably privacy-respecting vehicle, and EVs are the worst offenders here.
If an EV comes along with:
I’ll probably get it. I’m especially interested in sodium-ion EVs since they should be far less expensive and probably safer. I don’t need anything fancy, I just need to get to work, and I’d really prefer to do that without being tracked by the car manufacturer.
Thanks for the info.
You answered your question.
Your “evidence” are people who live on your block and your boss. You might be an engineer but you’re no statistician.
The claim was that it was designed to actively stop you from working on it yourself.
And, of course, far more importantly, I referenced the owner satisfaction survey CR. You conveniently ignored that. Doesn’t seem to me you’re arguing in good faith.
Elon Musk is a trash person, that’s why I don’t like Tesla
Which is perfectly valid, imo. It’s a very similar reason as to why people boycott Nestle products. It’s not necessarily because Nestle products themselves are unsatisfactory, it’s because people take issue with Nestle’s leadership and the executive decisions they make.
To be fair, Elon Musk hasn’t done a horrible with Tesla itself, but the actions he takes outside Tesla are abhorrent.
Nestle itself does abhorrent things, so there’s zero way of separating the products from the company.
I’ve changed a spark plug, and assume I’m typical here.
Dear readers: Please downvote this comment if you have never changed a spark plug.
I took the carb apart on my lawnmower once, does that count?
Yup. Cars don’t have carburators anymore (fuel injection ftw), but if you can work on your lawnmower’s carburetor, you can fix most things on a car. All you need are:
If you have those, you can do most ICE and EV maintenance. Parts and documentation are generally available.
EVs are a different beast. If you’re doing anything beyond the very basics (e.g. tires, headlights, etc), you’ll have no documentation and may void your warranty.
Funny because (at least last I checked) The cars use linux.
Well so does Apple. Well, BSD, really, of which Mac OS is a heavily modified version. But who gives a shit as it’s lacking the most important part of BSD - the license. We’d rather praise Microsoft for open-sourcing stuff instead.
You can’t bring up BSD and not finish the pedantic history of macOS. Leave it at “macOS is a UNIX” or get into the weeds.
macOS userland (i.e. terminal commands) is mostly FreeBSD with some stuff from other BSDs. However, the kernel is a separate project entirely and comes from NEXT (Steve Jobs’ project when he briefly left Apple), which was based on the Mach microkernel. Both FreeBSD and Linux use monolithic kernels, and there’s pretty much no shared heritage there with macOS. Also, macOS uses its own init (launchd), filesystems (HFS+), etc, and doesn’t support the standard stuff in BSD (e.g. FreeBSD init, UFS, ZFS) or the standard stuff in Linux (e.g. sysvinit, systemd, ext4, etc).
The overlap between macOS and Linux is essentially zero other than some shared UNIX idioms and a few packages like bash. The overlap between macOS and FreeBSD is the userland, which most people don’t interact with unless they’re terminal nerds like me. The overlap is just the macOS borrowed a lot of open source stuff, it’s not really based on FreeBSD at all.
Can you pick a distribution or is it more like Android?
I think it is more likely to be Embedded Android