- cross-posted to:
- dundermifflin@lemm.ee
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Yes you should take it, if you got no other options.
Then you immediately update your CV with your new job title and jump ship for more pay. If the orginal company offers to match the pay you say “you had the chance to pay me more. If you valued me that much, you could have paid me that much from the start”
Don’t go back on your intent to leave for a better job. Some employers will see you as disloyal if you take the raise and stay. You’re usually better off leaving anyway.
There is rarely a situation where you should allow your employer to match the offer you have in hand.
They had the opportunity to do so and then failed to properly retain you. If they realize how much losing you will cost them in productivity, that’s on them, not you.
It’s not personal. It’s literally business.
You could try negotiating regular pay raises, start with a match and require 5% per year after that.
If they ain’t paying you enough to stay they’re highly unlikely to honor the idea of regular raises. They’ve already shown they’re willing to low ball you if they can get away with it so fuck taking the risk of staying.
Yup. You’re liable to be downsized in a couple months anyway.
If you take the raise and stay, you’re now a bigger number on the same asshole bean counter’s spreadsheet. Maybe the biggest in your role. That’s not a long term move.
Being the highest paid is always the best move.
Highest-paid-off is first laid-off.
This. My buddy/former manager accepted a counter offer and lasted less than 6 months before they fired him, and made his working life miserable during that time. Just reinforced the mentality in me to never trust the counter offer of a place I already want to leave.
Yep. Soon as you commit to looking, you commit to leaving.
I told my last supervisor about every interview I was on; how it went, what I thought, etc. After a year I left abruptly (ie the pace at which they’d fire me). They were surprised, even after I’d been telling my supe about my hunting for a year.
I cannot understand why this is so hard to get. People on here whining about their employer using them. Well, yes they are. Use them back. It’s just business, it’s expected on both sides of the table.
Last three times I jumped, I increased my pay by $12 -> $22 -> $32. I could go again, but I’m kinda fat, happy and lazy ATM.
I’m picturing you on a porch in a Rockin chair with chewing some grass, occasionally stopping to look around and go “yuup”.
I’d like that.
Are you actively watching me?!
“yuup”
One of the biggest hurdles for me is the gap in medical coverage and uncertainty of what is covered next. I have a genetic condition that requires very expensive medication. Jumping jobs and hoping COBRA payments aren’t insane is a big risk, so I don’t feel confident jumping quickly between jobs if one doesn’t work out.
This right here.
Yep. Enjoying about $400 more per paycheck after my last employer shuffled my duties around for no additional compensation. “Duties as assigned” being vague works both ways.
Never heard of duties as assigned, but that is fucking bullshit.
I guess the part I don’t get about everyone saying to take it and immediately start looking for a new job using your new title is that the new job doesn’t ask you how much experience or time you have with your new title?
Like, do they really not ask for 2+ years experience in that position or do you just lie to them or do you say, “Yeah, about 3 days now!” ?
From what I’ve heard is recuritment has a sort of preference for candidates.
So that’s starts: People they know that can do the job.
People that they know, that know someone that can do the job.
Then I guess it would be people already doing the job.
So you’re not going to be in as good of a position as someone that has 2+ years in the business. But what it does show is that the company you worked for, for a while, thought you was good enough to promote to that level. It’s definitely going to make you more likely to get the job at a competitor. If it doesn’t just keep apply for 6 months. By that time you will have 6 months experience.
You might need a month on the job, ratger than 3 days, just to show you been trained to run that job.
Also just because a job says 2+ years experience doesn’t mean they wont overlook that. It’s just that’s what they prefer.
Ah ok, well I guess that makes sense.
The reasons for me to change job would be:
- Better salary
- Better work/life balance (less commuting or less hours)
- Less responsibilities
- A work that better fit my values
I’d only accept a “dry promotion” to improve my resume. Then I’d quit.
Here’s a secret: your resume is whatever you write on a piece of paper. You can just get a volunteer role if you want to be a director or lead something.
Don’t ever work for free unless you care about the end result. And definitely don’t ever work for free for your own company. You can’t be paid what you don’t ask for.
Maybe you get paid the same but work half the time? (won’t happen, but would be a ‘dry’ promotion I would take)
Nope. I want the promotion, the increase in salary and the halfed working hours.
That’s probably not how it would work, but it’s worth clarifying.
If it’s a promotion to less work, maybe.
Maybe.
Is there a risk of more responsibility and more risk in general? Meaning if something goes wrong, you can get fucked easier?
The way those those "maybe"s are used, are trying to illustrate their elevated doubt. So like “if 3 independent lawyers all agree I’m not getting fked.”
That’s not how this works at all.
You keep doing all your current responsibilities. Then you get these more with no additional compensation.
Do it for the exposure!
I’m definitely exposed to the elements because of not owning a home
I got a “dry” promotion at my last position, and obviously I took it. I then put my new title on my Resume, when job hunting for a few months and found a new position that came with a 20%+ pay raise.
I’m actually a big fan of promotions that don’t include raises, because it shows that your employer doesn’t actually value you as an employee, and enables you to get a much larger raise at a new company compared to whatever raise your current employer would’ve given you if they cared at all about retention.
This works great for highly educated white collars!
Not for the other 70%+ of the workforce though.
Why? Better resumé is a better resumé.
This is the way.
Always take the promotion. Then update the resume and start hunting.
Or skip step 1 and just lie on your resumé 😂
Preach it. I fought and fought to get my ASQs and CQEs (quality certs) as an automations guy. I worked in fda/dea/gmp environments with those systems so why they hell not. Took 2 years to finally get both and bailed immediately. Did all my bs six sigma bullshit along the way.
If it’s a smash and grab for them then it’s a smash and grab for me.
Capitalism 2: Slavery Boogaloo
Except Capitalism 2 is actually quite a fun computer game…
I took a promotion without a pay rise on the agreement it would come when pay was reviewed annually. A shit deal, but one I was prepared to accept on the balance of things. I made clear that if they didn’t follow through then I would immediately demote myself and start looking for a new job.
Pay review came around and it was below inflation. I immediately demoted myself and started looking for a new job. I even requested an internal transfer that was denied (made them too much money where I was).
I handed in my notice a short while later and everyone was, to my surprise, surprised. I really didn’t understand why the shock…until I learned in due course that most people don’t follow through.
Funnier still, I returned 6 months later (due to a quirk in contracts) at double the salary in the dept I requested a transfer to.
Anyway my point is - do what is to your benefit, always. Companies can play games - as can you.
I handed in my notice a short while later and everyone was, to my surprise, surprised. I really didn’t understand why the shock…until I learned in due course that most people don’t follow through.
When I was a young adult, I used to work as a lab tech in a plasma center. That involved taking liter bottles of plasma, checking the computer system, filling out paperwork, drawing fluid and taking blood vials to run in a centrifuge, and frequently having to redo paperwork because the barely-trained phlebotomists kept sending them to me covered in drops of blood. Of course, this not only took longer, but meant I had to sanitize the entire area, change PPE, and get shit from the rest of the team for not just taking their biohazard-contaminated paperwork regardless. The room held 50 to 100 donors at a time, and the lab team was just two people.
My immediate boss would routinely just fucking disappear or taking random lunches, even during rushes, leaving me to handle everything on my own. She’d get pissy over small things, and spent time chatting with management in the offices, just hanging out, while I did all the work.
One day, she did something like this and left. I muttered to myself that I was going to quit. I finished the sample I was working on and went into the -40 degree biohazard freezer to store the sample.
Cut to a minute later, I came out of the freezer to see someone from management in the lab, saying “I heard you’re quitting?”
…what?
She said “Fine then. Go ahead and go.” (or something like that.)
I was stunned, but realized that my shitty manager must have heard me on her way out, and fucking told on me. I hadn’t planned on following through, and was mostly just upset at being used, but now?
“Fuck it.” I thought. “I said I’ll do it, so I’ll do it.”
I’m not a good speaker, but I basically stumbled over some short apology like that I would have finished the work day first, but would leave now if she wanted to. Her reply was to get all exasperated, as if she hadn’t expected me to do anything but crumple at being confronted, and she told me “Well, have a nice life then!” as I walked out the door. Never saw her or my shitty manager again. Years later, I did hear my shitty manager had gotten fired or something, for being shit at hear job.
I think I made the right choice.
(Edited for typos, so many typos…)
Never apologize to those people. You def made the right choice. Hope you found something better to devote your time to.
I did, but then the company got bought out, all the people who worked there fired, and I had to move back to a different state with family to avoid being homeless. Kill me…
I want the games to end. Fun time is over
And their promises mean nothing.
So true. I’ve seen promises broken for a multitude of reasons: malice, ignorance, naivity, legality…we always reach for malice but it isn’t always.
Same deal though - a company will break promises, so don’t feel any obligation on your part. Of course this needs to be balanced with your reputation in your industry.
Its not malice. Its just something they said. It was empty words. Never an intention to keep it.
So… Lieing, looks like malice to me.
As others have said, you take the ‘promotion’ and IMMEDIATELY start looking for a new job with your new title on your resume.
Corporations are not loyal to you. Do not be loyal to them.
As a hiring manager, I’d never consider someone for the role they took on yesterday when recruiting. That just doesn’t make any sense.
As a hiring manager I am sure you’re aware that when consulting professionals in the recruiting field, many people are told to replace their old title with their new one. The position they reach is more important when moving up than the one they had for X period of time, and many employers won’t dig too deep into it, especially if the potential employee can sell themselves.
That practice does not exist in my country.
Or it does and you never thought much on it.
On a CV someone would put X time at Y company, was role Z. How long role Z was is not normally listed and if I got a multi page CV with every role listed at each company I would toss it.
You want people who other people vetted as good enough to do <blank>. It’s often a first pass filter to even get to your inbox. Why wouldn’t you read the rest of the resume.
I read the rest of the resume, but I evaluate the people based on a proven track record, not on the newly appointed role with zero history.
You are allied with the crapitalistic corporaturds.
Your “meal” doesn’t come with food.
Your “marriage” doesn’t come with love.
Your “car” doesn’t come with an engine
Do the above sound ridiculous?
Now re-read the headline.
Your “marriage” doesn’t come with love.
That part doesn’t sound all that ridiculous, to be honest.
The other two…
Hey this basically happened to me. I got a 1 dollar raise offer for moving into a management role. Negotiating a higher pay Tuesday. Wish me luck!
Good luck, but when you are turned down you should recognize the red flag and start looking for your new, better job, leveraging your new title to get paid what it is worth.
That’s the plan… I’m still in school and the jobs pretty flexible so I may stick it out for a bit but it’s worth a shot.
Once got offered a promotion to make less. Made $15/hr as a “Junior” but got 1.5x Overtime and there was always as much overtime as you wanted.
Got offered a “Not Junior” full-time role for $30,000/year.
Just got up and left. Went home and started applying elsewhere. I know I was replacing a person who made 60k
Now I need to know if the next tier was, “Definitely-Not-Junior”.
It actually swaps to “Definitely-Not-Senior”
More responsibility without a pay increase sounds like a scam to me.
And an amazingly easy scam to avoid, and yet so many people don’t…
You assume it means more responsibility and often it does but not always.
For example the promotion might be to “Senior Widget Fixer” rather than just “Widget Fixer”, possible it will recognise your experience but day to day not actually make much difference, until pay review or job hunting time. There are cases when it will make sense to take it.They makes even less sense. If the company recognized you moved into a higher Sr level there’s nothing between the recognition and the salary raise except bean counters.
Ok Junior Widget Fixer
Whoaaa does that promotion come with a free widget for my personal use during breaks?
So the industry that I was in for a long time was production based, meaning your income is reflected by your physical performance. It was extremely demanding and also quite high paying.
So, I got stupidly good at this job. And I rarely took on additional responsibilities, because that would actually mean more stress and less money. In this industry, there were two reasons to go into management: you either had trouble coping with the physical strain that came with this insane work, or because you wanted to hold power over others. But it wasn’t a pay bump and it was more work/responsibility. Consequently the people who took this on were rarely the people who should have and the industry on the whole suffers accordingly.
Electrical lineman? Scuba welder? You have my curiosity.
You wouldn’t think it, but tree planter. A pretty quintessentially Canadian job. It’s piece rate, usually between 15-50c per tree. I got to the point later in my career where I was regularly making $800+ per day, with a few days over $1500. It requires planting a helluva lot of trees though.
Not a year-round occupation, but it’s possible to make a decent annual income by doing this seasonally.
That is the most Canadian thing I’ve heard all day, and also hella cool.
I went to school with a guy that became an underwater welder. Two things I learned about that job, it’s one of the most dangerous jobs in the world, and it pays a lot of money.
Haha! I worked for a contract cleaning crew for some time. Turnover was very high since the hours and wages sucked. The only people who hung around long enough to become managers were eminently unfit to be managers. Seems like managers are destined to suck for a large number of reasons.
I was once asked if I wanted to be the project manager for a system I was working on. Purely a internal title with no pay increase. Lol, fuck no.
Increased responsibility = increased compensation.
Well you can do the route of getting some PM experience and then doing that.
This. Also, project managers are very much sought after, and you can relatively easily switch industrial sectors if that’s what you like. I’m currently on my 4th, only the 1st one was software.
How did you get your education and/or first experience with project management? I’m finding myself being pushed into a project management role and am finding it to be a difficult transition. I’m not unhappy about the transition and it is coming with increased pay, but I need to learn skills that will help me in the role.
Second what the other commenter said, I’m interested in project management but I’m not 100% sure how to get into it
Same here!
Them: How about liason-title with added meetings and responsibilities?
Me: Does it pay more?
Them: Unfortunately, it does not.
Me: Unfortunately, I do not work for free.
Of course you do.
The goal is not to earn more. The goal is to do fuck all.
No.
