ThinkPad under Lenovo has also gotten much worse to the point that I don’t really consider them anymore …
Last time I looked you couldn’t even buy a 2-in-1 with upgradeable memory (or RAM > 16 GB) anymore and for replacing the keyboard you now have to disassemble the entire ThinkPad. Unlike my L390 Yoga and X201 Tablet, where the RAM is slotted and where the keyboard can easily be changed by removing three screws (which is important to me, as I prefer US International over my local layout and I also value a clean keyboard when buying used). In my experience ThinkPad batteries also tend to loose capacity rather quickly? In addition we already have the second X1 Yoga with a broken hinge within three years of normal usage in my family (luckily this device has a five year warranty, so we’ll see if the warranty covers it) …
Maybe this has changed since the first L13 Yoga (haven’t read about any new hardware from Lenovo since then), but these were the main reasons why I decided to buy one of the last new L390 Yogas instead of its successor and why I no longer consider ThinkPads to be more desirable than any other laptop.
So the TrackPoint, thermals, keyboard, durability, Linux friendliness, officially allowed user repairability, great anti-glare screen coating and superior quality to any consumer grade laptop or Macbook are not factors to you, or are you willing to drop the ball just because, where other laptop makers are worse on basically all criterias and even hate you for user repairability, Lenovo forgoes a couple of your criterias and personal disagreements?
You are not logical and reasonable when you say “I no longer consider ThinkPads to be more desirable than any other laptop.”
is nice and I prefer it to touchpads. But I don’t value it enough to still prioritise ThinkPads over other brands.
the keyboard
is no longer replaceable without disassembling the entire laptop (since the L13 Yoga Gen2). One of the things that made me prefer ThinkPads over the rest.
The typing experience is decent, but I could type just fine on other laptops as well.
Linux friendliness
In which way is a ThinkPad more Linux-friendly than others?
I mean, I can’t even use all the hardware I bought on Linux, as the fingerprint reader doesn’t have any Linux support, whereas older ThinkPads (up to the Yoga 460) had a fingerprint reader that worked great on Linux. I also haven’t received a single UEFI update on Linux through fwupd (I use Fedora if that matters).
I had an inexpensive Acer non-convertible laptop (bought without an OS from the factory) and a HP ENVY x360 (bought for its beefier AMD hardware, but eventually returned after attempts to fix the faulty digitizer failed multiple times) and Linux ran just fine on them as well.
officially allowed user repairability
I agree that it still is an advantage that Lenovo offers HMMs and spare parts.
But if I need to disassemble the entire laptop (which is something I really want to avoid) to replace a keyboard or most components are soldered, a hardware maintenance manual for ThinkPads is of much less value to me than it used to be.
durability
superior quality
In which way are ThinkPads “superior quality” or “durable”?
the keyboard is no longer replaceable without disassembling the entire laptop (since the L13 Yoga Gen2). One of the things that made me prefer ThinkPads over the rest.
This is a Yoga exclusive problem due to its non conventional form and function. This is not a ThinkPad problem. You can just lift off the clips on ThinkPads and plug in and out the cable beneath keyboard to replace.
In which way is a ThinkPad more Linux-friendly than others? I mean, I can’t even use all the hardware I bought on Linux, as the fingerprint reader doesn’t have any Linux support
Fingerprint reader is a very unique issue and the lack of hardware support is an anomaly. Users of Yoga and newest L serie generations apparently are reporting this, but not users of other ThinkPads. The Linux hardware support for Bluetooth, WiFi and other stuff is far superior to any other mainstream laptop maker.
In which way are ThinkPads “superior quality” or “durable”?
ThinkPads are resistant against drops and falls and have MILSPEC-810G certification, similar to rugged phones, which also allows them to be resistant against dust, sand, fungus, mist, extreme temperature and other harsh environmental conditions. Only laptops like Panasonic Toughbook get certified for this stuff, mainstream laptops outside ThinkPads do not. My ThinkPad has fallen 2-3 feet multiple times and even thrown across a room, and I am using it in front of me right now.
Edit: I have figured you out, you donkey (not the reply fellow above), downvoting every comment I make on my account. Go touch grass and snip your internet cable with a scissor. And maybe eat some shit and get diarrhea too.
This is a Yoga exclusive problem due to its non conventional form and function.
That’s the only form factor that’s relevant to me, so that’s what I evaluate. Other ThinkPads and laptops don’t matter to me.
The Linux hardware support for Bluetooth, WiFi and other stuff is far superior to any other mainstream laptop maker.
How? They use the same Intel/Broadcom/Realtek chips as everyone else.
MILSPEC-810G certification
If this is something you require, ok. But that’s not something I value at all. I haven’t dropped a laptop yet and don’t need any certifications.
What I see is a lot of plastic cracking and breaking off with the X-series tablets (own an X201t and owned multiple X230t in the past) and new laptops starting to creak after mostly sitting on a desk for a couple of months. So overall I don’t think the build quality is anything special and I believe there are laptops for the same price that hold up as well or better over time. But it isn’t terrible either, it is just ok in my opinion.
Edit: I have figured you out, you donkey, downvoting every comment I make on my account. Go touch grass and snip your internet cable with a scissor. And maybe eat some shit and get diarrhea too.
I don’t think I have downvoted a single comment from you, at least not in this thread.
Before you misunderstand, sorry, you are not that person. Whoever did it undid their downvote, and I just wanted to know that it was intentionally being done since the past week to me, and I do have a clue who it is. I got a lot of enemies due to being a known privacy advocate, moreso because I am also a communist (we get hate from libs lol).
If you want the 2-in-1 form, I am afraid you barely have options to begin with, let alone ones that are as easy to work with as conventional laptops. This is both a problem that you chose and one that industry is forced to inflict, as part of the engineering complexity and user not having a chunky 3kg device.
Lenovo maintains a Linux compatibility chart for ThinkPads and provides support for it. I have not seen mainstream laptop makers make any such efforts outside of that Dell XPS Developer Edition model with Ubuntu years ago. Most makers just ship preinstalled Ubuntu without putting in their own effort. With ThinkPads being heavily used in corporate sector, Linux gets some support as some companies do use it over Windows.
I think the MILSPEC certification is extremely useful, especially since you probably do use your device like a handheld tablet. Maybe you do not need it, but almost everyone will always benefit from it. Knowing your data is safe and rescuable even when the device gets a lot of physical abuse is the greatest benefit. IMHO you do not appreciate how good the ThinkPad is, compared to what garbage others make, and it may be a case of grass is greener on the other side.
ThinkPad under Lenovo has also gotten much worse to the point that I don’t really consider them anymore …
Last time I looked you couldn’t even buy a 2-in-1 with upgradeable memory (or RAM > 16 GB) anymore and for replacing the keyboard you now have to disassemble the entire ThinkPad. Unlike my L390 Yoga and X201 Tablet, where the RAM is slotted and where the keyboard can easily be changed by removing three screws (which is important to me, as I prefer US International over my local layout and I also value a clean keyboard when buying used). In my experience ThinkPad batteries also tend to loose capacity rather quickly? In addition we already have the second X1 Yoga with a broken hinge within three years of normal usage in my family (luckily this device has a five year warranty, so we’ll see if the warranty covers it) …
Maybe this has changed since the first L13 Yoga (haven’t read about any new hardware from Lenovo since then), but these were the main reasons why I decided to buy one of the last new L390 Yogas instead of its successor and why I no longer consider ThinkPads to be more desirable than any other laptop.
So the TrackPoint, thermals, keyboard, durability, Linux friendliness, officially allowed user repairability, great anti-glare screen coating and superior quality to any consumer grade laptop or Macbook are not factors to you, or are you willing to drop the ball just because, where other laptop makers are worse on basically all criterias and even hate you for user repairability, Lenovo forgoes a couple of your criterias and personal disagreements?
You are not logical and reasonable when you say “I no longer consider ThinkPads to be more desirable than any other laptop.”
is nice and I prefer it to touchpads. But I don’t value it enough to still prioritise ThinkPads over other brands.
is no longer replaceable without disassembling the entire laptop (since the L13 Yoga Gen2). One of the things that made me prefer ThinkPads over the rest.
The typing experience is decent, but I could type just fine on other laptops as well.
In which way is a ThinkPad more Linux-friendly than others?
I mean, I can’t even use all the hardware I bought on Linux, as the fingerprint reader doesn’t have any Linux support, whereas older ThinkPads (up to the Yoga 460) had a fingerprint reader that worked great on Linux. I also haven’t received a single UEFI update on Linux through fwupd (I use Fedora if that matters).
I had an inexpensive Acer non-convertible laptop (bought without an OS from the factory) and a HP ENVY x360 (bought for its beefier AMD hardware, but eventually returned after attempts to fix the faulty digitizer failed multiple times) and Linux ran just fine on them as well.
I agree that it still is an advantage that Lenovo offers HMMs and spare parts.
But if I need to disassemble the entire laptop (which is something I really want to avoid) to replace a keyboard or most components are soldered, a hardware maintenance manual for ThinkPads is of much less value to me than it used to be.
In which way are ThinkPads “superior quality” or “durable”?
This is a Yoga exclusive problem due to its non conventional form and function. This is not a ThinkPad problem. You can just lift off the clips on ThinkPads and plug in and out the cable beneath keyboard to replace.
Fingerprint reader is a very unique issue and the lack of hardware support is an anomaly. Users of Yoga and newest L serie generations apparently are reporting this, but not users of other ThinkPads. The Linux hardware support for Bluetooth, WiFi and other stuff is far superior to any other mainstream laptop maker.
ThinkPads are resistant against drops and falls and have MILSPEC-810G certification, similar to rugged phones, which also allows them to be resistant against dust, sand, fungus, mist, extreme temperature and other harsh environmental conditions. Only laptops like Panasonic Toughbook get certified for this stuff, mainstream laptops outside ThinkPads do not. My ThinkPad has fallen 2-3 feet multiple times and even thrown across a room, and I am using it in front of me right now.
Edit: I have figured you out, you donkey (not the reply fellow above), downvoting every comment I make on my account. Go touch grass and snip your internet cable with a scissor. And maybe eat some shit and get diarrhea too.
That’s the only form factor that’s relevant to me, so that’s what I evaluate. Other ThinkPads and laptops don’t matter to me.
How? They use the same Intel/Broadcom/Realtek chips as everyone else.
If this is something you require, ok. But that’s not something I value at all. I haven’t dropped a laptop yet and don’t need any certifications.
What I see is a lot of plastic cracking and breaking off with the X-series tablets (own an X201t and owned multiple X230t in the past) and new laptops starting to creak after mostly sitting on a desk for a couple of months. So overall I don’t think the build quality is anything special and I believe there are laptops for the same price that hold up as well or better over time. But it isn’t terrible either, it is just ok in my opinion.
I don’t think I have downvoted a single comment from you, at least not in this thread.
Before you misunderstand, sorry, you are not that person. Whoever did it undid their downvote, and I just wanted to know that it was intentionally being done since the past week to me, and I do have a clue who it is. I got a lot of enemies due to being a known privacy advocate, moreso because I am also a communist (we get hate from libs lol).
If you want the 2-in-1 form, I am afraid you barely have options to begin with, let alone ones that are as easy to work with as conventional laptops. This is both a problem that you chose and one that industry is forced to inflict, as part of the engineering complexity and user not having a chunky 3kg device.
Lenovo maintains a Linux compatibility chart for ThinkPads and provides support for it. I have not seen mainstream laptop makers make any such efforts outside of that Dell XPS Developer Edition model with Ubuntu years ago. Most makers just ship preinstalled Ubuntu without putting in their own effort. With ThinkPads being heavily used in corporate sector, Linux gets some support as some companies do use it over Windows.
I think the MILSPEC certification is extremely useful, especially since you probably do use your device like a handheld tablet. Maybe you do not need it, but almost everyone will always benefit from it. Knowing your data is safe and rescuable even when the device gets a lot of physical abuse is the greatest benefit. IMHO you do not appreciate how good the ThinkPad is, compared to what garbage others make, and it may be a case of grass is greener on the other side.