If Barbie has taught us anything, it's that women can do anything. But an increasing number of people are saying young men and boys are now crying out for role models on how to be the best version of themselves.
Rather than make snarky, half-arsed replies why not take the time to articulate why you think “toxic masculinity” is such a problematic term? Why not engage in good faith with other people instead of instantly trying to turn this into yet another polarised yawnfest argument?
Look I get the knee jerk on hearing male. “Oh we’re talking about masculinity, that’s an attack on me.” But the topic at hand is masculinity.
Why are so many boys and men feeling alone and in the cold?
Yes, toxic behaviors exists in both mainstream genders. Shallow ass women who play on male insecurities is a thing. BUT that’s not the topic here. Like, you shoving the whole “but the other side” thing really comes like someone walking into a hospital being outraged they aren’t going to do a quick dental clean while you’re there. You’re in the wrong place. There is such a place to go to, but it ain’t here.
I mean nothing but love for ya, but the knee jerk comes off a bit hard. Like we can have that discussion, but honest, I don’t think this is the thread for it. It feels like it detracts from introspecting by way of blaming the other team. I’m not downvoting you, I get where you’re coming from. But I just feel it’s distraction.
And that is my opinion on the matter and nothing more.
It’s about sending young boys the message “toxic masculinity” over and over while they grow up and are trying to explore what masculinity means to them
Is that what you think the point of the discussion here is? What you’re saying is valid but that’s not this setting. I think that’s the aspect that might be getting lost with what I’m saying. I’m not discounting what your saying, what I’m indicating is that “your argument, completely valid in general. But are we not speaking specifically of this thread?”
It’s one of those things of, do you want to speak in general or in specific terms? In general yeah, we cannot just toss the term toxic masculinity all over the place with zero context. That’s just going to confuse people. BUT…
Men need feminism too. Patriarchy and toxic masculinity harm both men and women in different ways
The starting of this thread is examining a specific topic among the many and it feels like you want to interject a side topic for fear that someone here might get confused about the specifics of “toxic masculinity” and what the background of that is. We’re adults here and I think it’s safe to look at what the original comment was getting at without diving head first into what (to me and that may be different for you so I acknowledge that) feels like splitting hairs.
And every time a young boy questions the term in confusion he will be attacked “but the other side” yadda is not valid like you just did to me
Well. Are you a young boy? Are you confused about the term? And that’s the crux of what I am putting forward. And it isn’t in honesty an attack on you or at least wasn’t meant to be. We can talk “in general” about a hypothetical young boy, or we can be “specific” and address what you are and are not confused by. But we ought to avoid strafing between the two loosely because that’s going to be distracting in best light.
So I hope you understand when you have:
And every time a young boy questions the term in confusion he will be attacked “but the other side” yadda
and:
is not valid like you just did to me
Is taking the context of that first statement and attempting to apply it to the context of the second statement where the context of these two things are different altogether. “But the other side” yadda is dismissive in the first context and pointing out distraction in the second. We can use similar sounding statements in varied context to convey different ideas. Just like the statement “we need to go deeper” can have various meaning between the background of being on an oil derrick and being a gynecologist. Context really matters.
Well let’s look at what you’ve brought to the table. Dismissiveness of folks who want to keep on topic and balme games for when your feeling get hurt by pointing out you’re hijacking the thread.
So yeah, you’re absoultely wanting to fix things here. You’ve done a banged up job thus far. You’ve acted like a child this conversation to everyone. You want an adult conversation but fuck you’ve acting in no matter of sorts. So, cool I think the convseration here is done. I’ve got better things to do than to speak with someone acting like a six year old who cannot even stay on topic.
Like how did you expect to debate things when you just wanted to keep changing the topic? Do you not know that? Everyone knows that’s just a tactic people wanting to NOT HAVE a conversation do, to prevent the conversation. And then get upset and emotional when they get called out on it. That’s what small children do. I was nice, I was giving you benefit of the doubt, and you just were like fuck it. So I’m calling it like I see it, you’re acting immature and outrage that everyone is treating you as such. How SHOULD we treat you when you will not treat anyone else here in like manner? Hmmm?
So yeah, this talk is over. You have you and perhaps that’ll be enough for you to figure out how to actually talk to people like an adult.
Rather than make snarky, half-arsed replies why not take the time to articulate why you think “toxic masculinity” is such a problematic term? Why not engage in good faith with other people instead of instantly trying to turn this into yet another polarised yawnfest argument?
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Opening with “ah yes” followed immediately by sarcasm is snarky. And yes, 13 words is a pretty half-arsed attempt. I think you can do better.
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Look I get the knee jerk on hearing male. “Oh we’re talking about masculinity, that’s an attack on me.” But the topic at hand is masculinity.
Yes, toxic behaviors exists in both mainstream genders. Shallow ass women who play on male insecurities is a thing. BUT that’s not the topic here. Like, you shoving the whole “but the other side” thing really comes like someone walking into a hospital being outraged they aren’t going to do a quick dental clean while you’re there. You’re in the wrong place. There is such a place to go to, but it ain’t here.
I mean nothing but love for ya, but the knee jerk comes off a bit hard. Like we can have that discussion, but honest, I don’t think this is the thread for it. It feels like it detracts from introspecting by way of blaming the other team. I’m not downvoting you, I get where you’re coming from. But I just feel it’s distraction.
And that is my opinion on the matter and nothing more.
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Is that what you think the point of the discussion here is? What you’re saying is valid but that’s not this setting. I think that’s the aspect that might be getting lost with what I’m saying. I’m not discounting what your saying, what I’m indicating is that “your argument, completely valid in general. But are we not speaking specifically of this thread?”
It’s one of those things of, do you want to speak in general or in specific terms? In general yeah, we cannot just toss the term toxic masculinity all over the place with zero context. That’s just going to confuse people. BUT…
The starting of this thread is examining a specific topic among the many and it feels like you want to interject a side topic for fear that someone here might get confused about the specifics of “toxic masculinity” and what the background of that is. We’re adults here and I think it’s safe to look at what the original comment was getting at without diving head first into what (to me and that may be different for you so I acknowledge that) feels like splitting hairs.
Well. Are you a young boy? Are you confused about the term? And that’s the crux of what I am putting forward. And it isn’t in honesty an attack on you or at least wasn’t meant to be. We can talk “in general” about a hypothetical young boy, or we can be “specific” and address what you are and are not confused by. But we ought to avoid strafing between the two loosely because that’s going to be distracting in best light.
So I hope you understand when you have:
and:
Is taking the context of that first statement and attempting to apply it to the context of the second statement where the context of these two things are different altogether. “But the other side” yadda is dismissive in the first context and pointing out distraction in the second. We can use similar sounding statements in varied context to convey different ideas. Just like the statement “we need to go deeper” can have various meaning between the background of being on an oil derrick and being a gynecologist. Context really matters.
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But then how will they subtly insult and demean you while still sounding like they have the moral high ground?
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Well let’s look at what you’ve brought to the table. Dismissiveness of folks who want to keep on topic and balme games for when your feeling get hurt by pointing out you’re hijacking the thread.
So yeah, you’re absoultely wanting to fix things here. You’ve done a banged up job thus far. You’ve acted like a child this conversation to everyone. You want an adult conversation but fuck you’ve acting in no matter of sorts. So, cool I think the convseration here is done. I’ve got better things to do than to speak with someone acting like a six year old who cannot even stay on topic.
Like how did you expect to debate things when you just wanted to keep changing the topic? Do you not know that? Everyone knows that’s just a tactic people wanting to NOT HAVE a conversation do, to prevent the conversation. And then get upset and emotional when they get called out on it. That’s what small children do. I was nice, I was giving you benefit of the doubt, and you just were like fuck it. So I’m calling it like I see it, you’re acting immature and outrage that everyone is treating you as such. How SHOULD we treat you when you will not treat anyone else here in like manner? Hmmm?
So yeah, this talk is over. You have you and perhaps that’ll be enough for you to figure out how to actually talk to people like an adult.
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