Drunk people can’t consent, not just drunk women. That’s the point of contention.
Edit: it’s worth mentioning that there are definitely limits to this statement. If two people at the nightclub have had several drinks and decide to hook up, that’s probably okay. They’re two consenting adults, even though they’re legally drunk. The issue is when one of the people is significantly impaired, to the point where they can’t really think clearly and consent or object. Just having a few beers and fucking isn’t a crime, and anyone who thinks it is is a prude.
It is nuanced for sure. A married couple can get drunk and have sex and it can be consensual, but it also could not be. And I purposefully didn’t mention gender at all.
It is a big problem and each instance has its own facts.
Edit: it’s worth mentioning that there are definitely limits to this statement. If two people at the nightclub have had several drinks and decide to hook up, that’s probably okay. They’re two consenting adults, even though they’re legally drunk. The issue is when one of the people is significantly impaired, to the point where they can’t really think clearly and consent or object. Just having a few beers and fucking isn’t a crime, and anyone who thinks it is, is a fucking prude.
Jesus fucking christ
No. Drunk people cannot consent. Doesn’t matter if both people are drunk. Whether that is a crime or not gets into a grey area. But if the only reason you care about consent is whether you can get in trouble for ignoring it…
No. Drunk people cannot consent. Doesn’t matter if both people are drunk. Whether that is a crime or not gets into a grey area. But if the only reason you care about consent is whether you can get in trouble for ignoring it…
The grey area is literally the whole topic of discussion, though. A blanket statement like “drunk people can’t consent” fails an examination of even its first order implications. What actually has happened when two equally drunk adults have sex? Did they rape each other? What if both of them insist after the fact that they both gave consent? That wouldn’t matter right, since drunk people can’t give consent?
Why does this only apply to sex? If drunk can’t consent to anything then why is drunk driving a crime? Sure it endangers others but the drunk person didn’t consent to getting in the car in the first place because drunk people can’t consent. What else can drunk people do and bear no responsibility for?
You gloss over the grey area as if it doesn’t matter when it’s literally the whole issue. The grey area contains all the hard questions , but instead of even attempting answer any you gloss over it, whine about incels, and hide behind the obviously indefensibly broad statement that “drunk people can’t consent”.
You’ll note I did not dispute your “drunk people, not just drunk women” statement as I do agree with that (I even said as much above).
What I take immense issue with is you deciding that suddenly drunk people CAN consent so long as both parties take a few shots. Which is horrifying. And now you are using drunk driving as a way to further justify what I am increasingly certain are some REALLY fucked up things you have done.
Jesus fucking christ. Get help before you hurt more people.
You haven’t realized that you’re talking to different people, and now you’re accusing all of them of having done horrible things because they recognize that there are degrees of competency when drinking. The law says you’re legally drunk at 0.08 ABL, yet there are millions of people who can function just fine at that level. Sure, their reactions are probably slow for the purpose of driving, yet they can still perform advanced mental functions such as debate, mathematics, artistic creation, or programming. Why is sex the magic thing they absolutely cannot do in your eyes?
You’ll note I did not dispute your “drunk people, not just drunk women” statement as I do agree with that (I even said as much above).
I’m not the same person. Perhaps you’re too drunk to consent to this conversation?
What I take immense issue with is you deciding that suddenly drunk people CAN consent so long as both parties take a few shots.
What you take issue is immaterial. Is it true, or not? Mutual rape doesnt make sense as a concept . Also, what defines “drunk”? A blackout drunk person obviously can’t consent to anything but then two blackout drunk people physically can’t have sex so that’s not really in the grey area at all. And yet surely one sip of beer doesn’t do it. Are you even going to address the very basic conversation of what constitutes drunk in terms of being able to consent to sex? Or is that another question to be glossed over?
Which is horrifying.
Why? Explain why. Why are you horrified that two consenting adults can go to a bar, have a few shots, then have sex? This happens millions of times every day - are you just always horrified? Who are you to tell those consenting adults that they actually didn’t give consent and were raped?
And now you are using drunk driving as a way to further justify what I am increasingly certain are some REALLY fucked up things you have done.
You’re certain of nothing. You’re an unserious person who craves moral highground even if it’s imagined.
Jesus fucking christ. Get help before you hurt more people.
replies to two separate people thinking they’re the same person > makes an unhinged claim that both these people (that you still think is one person) must be evil people > tells them to get help
Drunk people can’t consent, not just drunk women. That’s the point of contention.
Edit: it’s worth mentioning that there are definitely limits to this statement. If two people at the nightclub have had several drinks and decide to hook up, that’s probably okay. They’re two consenting adults, even though they’re legally drunk. The issue is when one of the people is significantly impaired, to the point where they can’t really think clearly and consent or object. Just having a few beers and fucking isn’t a crime, and anyone who thinks it is is a prude.
It is nuanced for sure. A married couple can get drunk and have sex and it can be consensual, but it also could not be. And I purposefully didn’t mention gender at all.
It is a big problem and each instance has its own facts.
Jesus fucking christ
No. Drunk people cannot consent. Doesn’t matter if both people are drunk. Whether that is a crime or not gets into a grey area. But if the only reason you care about consent is whether you can get in trouble for ignoring it…
The grey area is literally the whole topic of discussion, though. A blanket statement like “drunk people can’t consent” fails an examination of even its first order implications. What actually has happened when two equally drunk adults have sex? Did they rape each other? What if both of them insist after the fact that they both gave consent? That wouldn’t matter right, since drunk people can’t give consent?
Why does this only apply to sex? If drunk can’t consent to anything then why is drunk driving a crime? Sure it endangers others but the drunk person didn’t consent to getting in the car in the first place because drunk people can’t consent. What else can drunk people do and bear no responsibility for?
You gloss over the grey area as if it doesn’t matter when it’s literally the whole issue. The grey area contains all the hard questions , but instead of even attempting answer any you gloss over it, whine about incels, and hide behind the obviously indefensibly broad statement that “drunk people can’t consent”.
You’ll note I did not dispute your “drunk people, not just drunk women” statement as I do agree with that (I even said as much above).
What I take immense issue with is you deciding that suddenly drunk people CAN consent so long as both parties take a few shots. Which is horrifying. And now you are using drunk driving as a way to further justify what I am increasingly certain are some REALLY fucked up things you have done.
Jesus fucking christ. Get help before you hurt more people.
You haven’t realized that you’re talking to different people, and now you’re accusing all of them of having done horrible things because they recognize that there are degrees of competency when drinking. The law says you’re legally drunk at 0.08 ABL, yet there are millions of people who can function just fine at that level. Sure, their reactions are probably slow for the purpose of driving, yet they can still perform advanced mental functions such as debate, mathematics, artistic creation, or programming. Why is sex the magic thing they absolutely cannot do in your eyes?
I’m not the same person. Perhaps you’re too drunk to consent to this conversation?
What you take issue is immaterial. Is it true, or not? Mutual rape doesnt make sense as a concept . Also, what defines “drunk”? A blackout drunk person obviously can’t consent to anything but then two blackout drunk people physically can’t have sex so that’s not really in the grey area at all. And yet surely one sip of beer doesn’t do it. Are you even going to address the very basic conversation of what constitutes drunk in terms of being able to consent to sex? Or is that another question to be glossed over?
Why? Explain why. Why are you horrified that two consenting adults can go to a bar, have a few shots, then have sex? This happens millions of times every day - are you just always horrified? Who are you to tell those consenting adults that they actually didn’t give consent and were raped?
You’re certain of nothing. You’re an unserious person who craves moral highground even if it’s imagined.
Lol
To throw some more mud into the mix, there are trace amounts of alcohol in ordinary shit like orange juice.
You’re avoiding the question.
Unintentionally I hope.
replies to two separate people thinking they’re the same person > makes an unhinged claim that both these people (that you still think is one person) must be evil people > tells them to get help
don’t change lemmy
Drunk people absolutely can consent. It depends on how drunk they are. That was the person who you replied to’s point