Andrew Tate is a symptom, not the problem’: why young men are turning against feminism - eviltoast
‘Andrew Tate is a symptom, not the problem’: why young men are turning against feminism
www.theguardian.com
Teachers describe a deterioration in behaviour and attitudes that has proved to be fertile terrain for misogynistic influencers

Despite the triggering headline, this is a pretty good article that talks about how younger men are falling for this horseshit

  • gapbetweenus@feddit.de
    3·
    10 months ago

    You wrote it yourself, you don’t understand what I’m talking about eventhough I explained at length. It’s not up to me. I explained at length already.

    No, I wrote that I pushed back and made arguments. It’s your personal assessment, that I didn’t get your point. If you were genuinely interested in a conversation - you would try to understand my point and where the misunderstanding might be.

    I understand the statistics the article is talking about. And I think I understand why. If you want to understand, you’ll need to make the effort.

    And other people have other opinions on why and discuss those opinions. That’s why we are here. You can try making an effort to be understood and try to understand others or just be upset why nobody agrees with you.

    For example you wrote:

    guess you’re left blaming men and social networks for turning young men mysoginistic fascists.

    Wich is clearly misunderstanding of my opinion. So I just corrected you. It’s not that hard.

    • bouh@lemmy.world
      11·
      10 months ago

      You only answered one sentence in my whole comment and ignored the meaning of everything else. That’s what I mean. You even started with saying that I was sidetracking the conversation when I was actually refocusing it.

      If you want to make this an actual discussion, write your point instead of making it a quote ping pong.

      • gapbetweenus@feddit.de
        1·
        10 months ago

        Sure, if you are interested in my personal opinion I will gladly share. Just to be sure we are on the same page: we are talking about why the new right and conservatives are able to reach young men and where and why progressives fail to do so? Agree or did I miss something?

          • gapbetweenus@feddit.de
            1·
            10 months ago

            We live in a time where everything is changing rapidly, which includes gender roles in society. Those stayed rather stable over longer periods of time, but industrialization and two consecutive world wars changed western societies rather drastically. Women became rather completely independent of men in economical aspects and simultaneously pushed for more rights and participation. But this also changed the relationship dynamic and what women seek in a relationship. While previous generation could look at their parents for role models, newer generation had to come up with their own. At the same time over the last 20 years people (in the west) started to grow up in a less certain and secure world. While at the same time internet arrived and changed a lot of ways we interact with other people, while at the same time providing populist with a perfect tool to reach their audience.

            So to put it together, we live in a completely different and much more complex world form previous generations. It’s not just gender roles people are struggling with. And that is always a perfect time for populist to come around the corner and provide simple solutions. So populist and conman took on themself to sell the old romantic story of better times long gone by (conveniently their audience wasn’t alive back than, so they don’t know) just with modern tools. And easy answers that are sold in an entertaining way will always find buyers. Especially since it’s pushed by algorithms right down peoples throats.

            • bouh@lemmy.world
              1·
              10 months ago

              Populism works since Caesar, and there wasn’t Internet back then… Napoléon? Hitler and Mussolini? Do you know how it went in antic democratic Athen? Populism goes with democracy. Internet has nothing to do with it.

              The society is more complex than ever? I read it at least twice: in a XVth century book, and in an antiquity one.

              But this is beside the subject. You’ve said nothing here to explain why the reactionaries (the alt right, the far right, populism) are benefiting from this more than the left. Are you saying that the left can’t win? Are you saying that we should shut down Internet?

              You need to go farther in your analysis. There always were political forces opposing each other. The progressists were wining for women until recently. Why is it changing when young are so much more informed and educated than people were 50 years ago?

              • gapbetweenus@feddit.de
                1·
                10 months ago

                Populism benefits from new media since it offers easy solutions. While at same time it takes time for society to develop new rules and individuals to learn to handle new media. More complex ideas also need more time to be translated in a way relatable and entertaining to new audience.

                Why men are seemingly more succeptable to the rightwing propaganda than women? Maybe because rightwing ideology has rather little to offer women even on populist level.

                But than again you don’t seem to be interested in engaging with my arguments. So I will stop waisting my time.

                • bouh@lemmy.world
                  1·
                  10 months ago

                  What is this argument? I’m trying to understand. Here you’re not giving an argument though, merely an analysis. You don’t say anything about what’s possible about the problem. Except maybe explaining more and better then?

                  Men have nothing to win out of the Conservative ideology btw. It’s very harmful to them. Both physically and psychologically. But people don’t choose an ideology after a cost/benefit analysis anyway.

                  • gapbetweenus@feddit.de
                    2·
                    10 months ago

                    Last time: rightwing populism offers easy solutions to complex problems of modern world ( like for example gender: conservatives say there are two and don’t bother thinking more about that topic). Modern media allows for easy spread of populism ( algorithms pushing media that creates engagement and creating information bubbles). The right wing populism offers men a clear role and place in society. Right wing populism also offers a clear role for women in society, but it’s almost as bad as a deal as immigrants get. Progressive and feminism also offers solutions to modern problem, but they are more complex. ( For example a more complex understanding of what gender ist). Complex ideas are more difficult to sell.

                    If you feel like engaging with my analysis/argument/greating card what ever you call it, you are welcome otherwise have a nice day.