That’s the point OP was making when they said LGBT+ isn’t political. LGBT+ isn’t an ideology for people to share “beliefs” about. It will exist whether or not you believe in it, and normalizing people who say I don’t believe in it is essentially denying the LGBT+ person’s identity. It’s ok to say you don’t understand, or even like it, but to simply say “you’re making up your gender identity” is wrong and harmful.
The current LGBTQ+ ideology is a political ideology though. It’s not just facts and it’s not about “existing” like people try to make it out to be.
The current trend of “a 3 year old boy that plays with barbies is trans so should be put on puberty blockers” is an ideology, same with “trans women have no physical advantages over biological women”, same with trying to teach 8 year olds about anal sex and masturbation. None of these things have anything to do with people “existing”.
The ideology that says simply saying you’re a woman makes you a woman and therefore are entitled to women-only places and things like scholarships and awards is what most people are against. No one cares if a 25 year old biological male wants to put on a dress and wear makeup and call themself Jane. Most people will even play along with your new pronouns. People shouldn’t be forced to by law though, and that’s another of the big issues people have.
Tl;dr - being trans isn’t political. Pushing the current trans beliefs and ideologies like gender identity, self ID, and “trans women are women” is.
How are medically approved operations by doctors an ideology? As long as the parents and their doctors have identified an issue they need to address, and the procedure they decide on is safe, reversible, and is known to make the child’s life happier, who are you and I to stop them?
Pushing the current trans beliefs and ideologies like gender identity, self ID, and “trans women are women” is.
That’s conservatives making it political. Claiming your own gender identity is not political, it’s a natural human behavior to self identify. Please explain how you can say trans people can exist while at the same time if they try to self-identity then they’re being political? There’s no “conservative gene” that prevents you from choosing your gender identity (i.e. Caitlyn Jenner). Just acknowledging transgenderism exists is completely apolitical. If you see it as “pushing gender identity” that’s your problem.
How are medically approved operations by doctors an ideology?
I didn’t once mention medically approved operations? If you’re talking about doing them on kids then that’s a whole other issue.
and the procedure they decide on is safe, reversible, and is known to make the child’s life happier, who are you and I to stop them?
And here lies the problem - parents pushing their ideology on to their kids. Also what “trans surgeries” are “safe and reversible”? None. Cutting off your male genitalia is not reversible. A hysterectomy is not reversible. Cutting off your breasts is not reversible (though you can at least try and make up for it with breast implants). Puberty blockers are not fully reversible, and most countries are now acknowledging this. You simply cannot stunt someones physical (and mental) growth and have it just resume years later as if nothing has changed. There are zero long term studies on puberty blockers. There are however known long term issues with them.
it’s a natural human behavior to self identify.
Not as a different gender/sex it’s not. It has only become a thing very recently, where simply saying “I’m a woman” now means you’re a woman, no questions asked.
Please explain how you can say trans people can exist while at the same time if they try to self-identity then they’re being political?
That’s not at all what I said. Pushing for being able to let “Self ID” give you access to the opposite sexes spaces and sports and awards and other things is the political part. Trans people existing has nothing to do with that. The issues with self ID are that men who have literally done nothing to transition can now go in to womens events/spaces without question. A great example is the weightlifting competitions where gender Self ID was allowed, so a anti-self id man entered and just annihilated the competition as a protest to show how stupid it is. The only requirement for him to enter the womens competition was for him to tick a box saying he’s a woman.
Transgender and gender ideology are different things. Transgender is “I am the other gender to what I was born as”. Gender ideology is “I can be whatever gender i want, whenever i want, and can change gender a thousand times during the day, and I should get all of the rights afforded to whichever sex/gender i call myself at the time”. They’re not one and the same.
I didn’t once mention medically approved operations? If you’re talking about doing them on kids then that’s a whole other issue.
No, I don’t approve of irreversible medical surgeries on people under age of 16, but that’s not a thing in any case. It’s in response to your comments about 3 year olds getting puberty blockers (which is also not a thing) in which case it is temporary, reversible, and typically starts at 8 (10+ for boys).
And here lies the problem - parents pushing their ideology on to their kids. Also what “trans surgeries” are “safe and reversible”? None. Cutting off your male genitalia is not reversible. A hysterectomy is not reversible
My child is sick, feeling depressed, I go to the doctor, they discuss possible issues, and through preset, clinical guidelines, they decide that treatment for gender dysmorphia is an option. Again, reversible, safe treatments like puberty blockers and therapy that help prevent children from self-harm and further confusion about their identify. It’s not like they’re passing out puberty blockers like candies for funsies and doing this for fun.
I’m not even talking about transgender surgeries, which happens at 18+ of age.
it’s a natural human behavior to self identify.
Not as a different gender/sex it’s not. It has only become a thing very recently, where simply saying “I’m a woman” now means you’re a woman, no questions asked.
Say’s who? If one wants another to call them by another thing, who are we to dispute that? Gender CAN be fluid. Your biological sex that you were born with hasn’t changed, it’s their GENDER. Gender doesn’t have to match your sex. And transgenderism has been a thing since ancient times. Have you considered that maybe more people are coming “out” recently because they’re feeling safer to express themselves?
The issues with self ID are that men who have literally done nothing to transition can now go in to womens events/spaces without question. A great example is the weightlifting competitions where gender Self ID was allowed, so a anti-self id man entered and just annihilated the competition as a protest to show how stupid it is. The only requirement for him to enter the womens competition was for him to tick a box saying he’s a woman.
There have been exactly 0 assaults by transgender women entering a public bathroom. And your concerns about a troll entering sports competitions is going to out-weight all of the self-harm and suicides committed by people suffering from unaddressed/repressed gender identity issues?
Gender ideology is “I can be whatever gender i want, whenever i want, and can change gender a thousand times during the day, and I should get all of the rights afforded to whichever sex/gender i call myself at the time”.
Show me one time where that has happened and it has harmed someone else by doing it. And again, if they want to change their gender once or a thousand times, how is it any of your business? Besides sports competitions and bathrooms, I mean.
Having empowerment over their gender identity is an important part of being a transgender person, denying them that right is inhuman and cruel. Gender ideology, or whatever you want to call it, is simply (in my opinion) expressing a sense of safety and freedom to others that want to identify as something else from what they were born as. And believe it or not, this can happen whether you are conservative or liberal - it is absolutely a HUMAN desire, not a political one.
Look, I understand that if I call someone that looks and talk like a women a she, but wants to be called a man, there’s going to be confusion. But what do I lose out of my day if they simply said “sorry, I’m actually a he” and I respect that moving forward?
No, I don’t approve of irreversible medical surgeries on people under age of 16, but that’s not a thing in any case.
That thing that never happens yet still happens isn’t actually happening? lol Also why did you choose 16 as your cutoff? They’re still legally, physically, and mentally a child at 16.
in which case it is temporary, reversible, and typically starts at 8 (10+ for boys).
Not fully reversible, and the sooner your “side” acknowledges this the better. Governments all over the world are recognising this now and are removing all mentions of “fully reversible” from their documents and legislation, and many are now outlawing it altogether because there are literally no long term studies done to prove that they are reversible. The difference between 3 and 8 or 10 is completely irrelevant. A 8 year old has no better understanding of gender identity than a 3 year old, they lack the mental capacity for understanding this and they absolutely cannot understand the life long repercussions.
My child is sick, feeling depressed, I go to the doctor, they discuss possible issues, and through preset, clinical guidelines, they decide that treatment for gender dysmorphia is an option.
Sick? Gender dysphoria/dysmorphia doesn’t make anyone “sick”. You’re also overlooking all of the places that hand out diagnoses and scripts for drugs after a literal 10 minute phone call, intentionally so most likely.
I’m not even talking about transgender surgeries, which happens at 18+ of age.
Apart from when they don’t, like how you yourself even said in this same post that you’re ok with it at 16 years of age. What is it, 18 or 16?
If one wants another to call them by another thing, who are we to dispute that?
Again, this is the problem - you can call yourself whatever you want. I. Don’t. Care. Simply calling yourself a woman however should not mean that you now have access to women’s sports and women only safe spaces like gyms and doctors etc.
There have been exactly 0 assaults by transgender women entering a public bathroom.
Come on mate, you don’t even believe these lies.
And your concerns about a troll entering sports competition is going to out-weight all of the self-harm and suicides committed by people suffering from unaddressed gender identity issues?
The fact that even post gender affirming surgery the suicide rate doesn’t decrease among transgender people says all that needs to be said. You’re basically saying “let womens sports be taken over by biological males because if you don’t the transgender people will kill themselves”. I believe this is what you guys call “gaslighting”?
Show me one time where that has happened and it has harmed someone else by doing it.
I literally just did with the weightlifting example. A woman lost out on a prize because a man chose to be a woman so he could enter the competition. Self ID lets that happen. He did it to stop another self ID’ing transgender person from winning, to show how stupid the rule is. If you want other examples just look at the women that get raped in bloody rape crisis centres and even prisons by self id’ing males.
And again, if they want to change their gender a thousand times, how is it any of your business? Besides sports competitions and bathrooms.
Sports competitions and bathrooms etc in this situation are the only thing I am against. I don’t care if you want to change your gender 1000000 times a day. It doesn’t affect me. I don’t care. As I’ve said many times, I care when it affects other people, such as in sporting competitions and bathrooms (and children of course).
Look, I understand that if I call someone that looks and talk like a women a she, but wants to be called a man, there’s going to be a confusion. But what do I lose out of my day if they simply said “sorry, I’m actually a he” and I respect that moving forward?
You’re not going to get any disagreement from me though, this is what I keep saying. I have nothing against transgender people. Everyone can live their life identifying as whatever the hell they want, I don’t care. I care about fairness, safety, and scientific facts though, so when you identifying as something else encroaches on any of that, that’s when we have a problem.
Indigenous peoples have acknowledged a “third gender” aka non binary for centuries - way before colonization.
How can you say self identifying in regards to sex/gender is a recent ideology when it’s been part of human history for centuries?
Sounds like bland, generic, thoughtless conservative nonsense to eliminate other perspectives (especially when you discount them as new despite existing for centuries)
How can you say self identifying in regards to sex/gender is a recent ideology when it’s been part of human history for centuries?
It hasn’t though. People are now using absurd leaps to try and pretend that it has been around for centuries, but it hasn’t. Got some links to these “third gender” stories?
Chances are you and I will go our entire lives never coming in contact with an actual intersex person. Your children probably won’t either. Their children also won’t. Your parents wouldn’t have either. Statistically they’re just basically not a thing.
What would I have them do in regards to what exactly?
That’s the point OP was making when they said LGBT+ isn’t political. LGBT+ isn’t an ideology for people to share “beliefs” about. It will exist whether or not you believe in it, and normalizing people who say I don’t believe in it is essentially denying the LGBT+ person’s identity. It’s ok to say you don’t understand, or even like it, but to simply say “you’re making up your gender identity” is wrong and harmful.
The current LGBTQ+ ideology is a political ideology though. It’s not just facts and it’s not about “existing” like people try to make it out to be.
The current trend of “a 3 year old boy that plays with barbies is trans so should be put on puberty blockers” is an ideology, same with “trans women have no physical advantages over biological women”, same with trying to teach 8 year olds about anal sex and masturbation. None of these things have anything to do with people “existing”.
The ideology that says simply saying you’re a woman makes you a woman and therefore are entitled to women-only places and things like scholarships and awards is what most people are against. No one cares if a 25 year old biological male wants to put on a dress and wear makeup and call themself Jane. Most people will even play along with your new pronouns. People shouldn’t be forced to by law though, and that’s another of the big issues people have.
Tl;dr - being trans isn’t political. Pushing the current trans beliefs and ideologies like gender identity, self ID, and “trans women are women” is.
How are medically approved operations by doctors an ideology? As long as the parents and their doctors have identified an issue they need to address, and the procedure they decide on is safe, reversible, and is known to make the child’s life happier, who are you and I to stop them?
That’s conservatives making it political. Claiming your own gender identity is not political, it’s a natural human behavior to self identify. Please explain how you can say trans people can exist while at the same time if they try to self-identity then they’re being political? There’s no “conservative gene” that prevents you from choosing your gender identity (i.e. Caitlyn Jenner). Just acknowledging transgenderism exists is completely apolitical. If you see it as “pushing gender identity” that’s your problem.
I didn’t once mention medically approved operations? If you’re talking about doing them on kids then that’s a whole other issue.
And here lies the problem - parents pushing their ideology on to their kids. Also what “trans surgeries” are “safe and reversible”? None. Cutting off your male genitalia is not reversible. A hysterectomy is not reversible. Cutting off your breasts is not reversible (though you can at least try and make up for it with breast implants). Puberty blockers are not fully reversible, and most countries are now acknowledging this. You simply cannot stunt someones physical (and mental) growth and have it just resume years later as if nothing has changed. There are zero long term studies on puberty blockers. There are however known long term issues with them.
Not as a different gender/sex it’s not. It has only become a thing very recently, where simply saying “I’m a woman” now means you’re a woman, no questions asked.
That’s not at all what I said. Pushing for being able to let “Self ID” give you access to the opposite sexes spaces and sports and awards and other things is the political part. Trans people existing has nothing to do with that. The issues with self ID are that men who have literally done nothing to transition can now go in to womens events/spaces without question. A great example is the weightlifting competitions where gender Self ID was allowed, so a anti-self id man entered and just annihilated the competition as a protest to show how stupid it is. The only requirement for him to enter the womens competition was for him to tick a box saying he’s a woman.
Transgender and gender ideology are different things. Transgender is “I am the other gender to what I was born as”. Gender ideology is “I can be whatever gender i want, whenever i want, and can change gender a thousand times during the day, and I should get all of the rights afforded to whichever sex/gender i call myself at the time”. They’re not one and the same.
No, I don’t approve of irreversible medical surgeries on people under age of 16, but that’s not a thing in any case. It’s in response to your comments about 3 year olds getting puberty blockers (which is also not a thing) in which case it is temporary, reversible, and typically starts at 8 (10+ for boys).
My child is sick, feeling depressed, I go to the doctor, they discuss possible issues, and through preset, clinical guidelines, they decide that treatment for gender dysmorphia is an option. Again, reversible, safe treatments like puberty blockers and therapy that help prevent children from self-harm and further confusion about their identify. It’s not like they’re passing out puberty blockers like candies for funsies and doing this for fun.
I’m not even talking about transgender surgeries, which happens at 18+ of age.
Say’s who? If one wants another to call them by another thing, who are we to dispute that? Gender CAN be fluid. Your biological sex that you were born with hasn’t changed, it’s their GENDER. Gender doesn’t have to match your sex. And transgenderism has been a thing since ancient times. Have you considered that maybe more people are coming “out” recently because they’re feeling safer to express themselves?
There have been exactly 0 assaults by transgender women entering a public bathroom. And your concerns about a troll entering sports competitions is going to out-weight all of the self-harm and suicides committed by people suffering from unaddressed/repressed gender identity issues?
Show me one time where that has happened and it has harmed someone else by doing it. And again, if they want to change their gender once or a thousand times, how is it any of your business? Besides sports competitions and bathrooms, I mean.
Having empowerment over their gender identity is an important part of being a transgender person, denying them that right is inhuman and cruel. Gender ideology, or whatever you want to call it, is simply (in my opinion) expressing a sense of safety and freedom to others that want to identify as something else from what they were born as. And believe it or not, this can happen whether you are conservative or liberal - it is absolutely a HUMAN desire, not a political one.
Look, I understand that if I call someone that looks and talk like a women a she, but wants to be called a man, there’s going to be confusion. But what do I lose out of my day if they simply said “sorry, I’m actually a he” and I respect that moving forward?
FYI one of these things that never happen happened again:
https://reduxx.info/exclusive-trans-woman-confronted-by-mother-in-swimming-pool-locker-room-is-a-convicted-pedophile/
That thing that never happens yet still happens isn’t actually happening? lol Also why did you choose 16 as your cutoff? They’re still legally, physically, and mentally a child at 16.
Not fully reversible, and the sooner your “side” acknowledges this the better. Governments all over the world are recognising this now and are removing all mentions of “fully reversible” from their documents and legislation, and many are now outlawing it altogether because there are literally no long term studies done to prove that they are reversible. The difference between 3 and 8 or 10 is completely irrelevant. A 8 year old has no better understanding of gender identity than a 3 year old, they lack the mental capacity for understanding this and they absolutely cannot understand the life long repercussions.
Sick? Gender dysphoria/dysmorphia doesn’t make anyone “sick”. You’re also overlooking all of the places that hand out diagnoses and scripts for drugs after a literal 10 minute phone call, intentionally so most likely.
Apart from when they don’t, like how you yourself even said in this same post that you’re ok with it at 16 years of age. What is it, 18 or 16?
Again, this is the problem - you can call yourself whatever you want. I. Don’t. Care. Simply calling yourself a woman however should not mean that you now have access to women’s sports and women only safe spaces like gyms and doctors etc.
Come on mate, you don’t even believe these lies.
The fact that even post gender affirming surgery the suicide rate doesn’t decrease among transgender people says all that needs to be said. You’re basically saying “let womens sports be taken over by biological males because if you don’t the transgender people will kill themselves”. I believe this is what you guys call “gaslighting”?
I literally just did with the weightlifting example. A woman lost out on a prize because a man chose to be a woman so he could enter the competition. Self ID lets that happen. He did it to stop another self ID’ing transgender person from winning, to show how stupid the rule is. If you want other examples just look at the women that get raped in bloody rape crisis centres and even prisons by self id’ing males.
Sports competitions and bathrooms etc in this situation are the only thing I am against. I don’t care if you want to change your gender 1000000 times a day. It doesn’t affect me. I don’t care. As I’ve said many times, I care when it affects other people, such as in sporting competitions and bathrooms (and children of course).
You’re not going to get any disagreement from me though, this is what I keep saying. I have nothing against transgender people. Everyone can live their life identifying as whatever the hell they want, I don’t care. I care about fairness, safety, and scientific facts though, so when you identifying as something else encroaches on any of that, that’s when we have a problem.
Finally some sanity on this site.
❤️
Indigenous peoples have acknowledged a “third gender” aka non binary for centuries - way before colonization.
How can you say self identifying in regards to sex/gender is a recent ideology when it’s been part of human history for centuries?
Sounds like bland, generic, thoughtless conservative nonsense to eliminate other perspectives (especially when you discount them as new despite existing for centuries)
It hasn’t though. People are now using absurd leaps to try and pretend that it has been around for centuries, but it hasn’t. Got some links to these “third gender” stories?
https://www.huffpost.com/entry/what-two-spirit-means-native_l_62aa0b3ce4b06169ca93c14e
https://www.ihs.gov/lgbt/health/twospirit/
https://www.ncai.org/policy-research-center/initiatives/Pruden-Edmo_TwoSpiritPeople.pdf
https://www.theindigenousfoundation.org/articles/the-history-of-two-spirit-folks
https://www.firstpeople.us/articles/the-two-spirit-people-of-indigenous-north-americans.html
https://asandersgarcia.humspace.ucla.edu/courses/earlyamhistory/2020/06/12/understanding-gender-roles-in-native-american-communities-using-computational-analysis/
lol “two spirit = third gender”
Those links say that the indigenous people used “two spirit” to refer to homosexuals. That’s not at all like “self identifying”.
Genuine question, what would you expect people who were born intersex to do? How would you know whether or not someone is intersex?
Edit: They do exist.
Chances are you and I will go our entire lives never coming in contact with an actual intersex person. Your children probably won’t either. Their children also won’t. Your parents wouldn’t have either. Statistically they’re just basically not a thing.
What would I have them do in regards to what exactly?