This week, Marilyn Manson was confirmed to support Slipknot in front of 90,000 people at Wembley Stadium next July. He was booked despite the wave of sexual misconduct allegations levelled against him, plus a lawsuit from his former assistant alleging physical, emotional and psychological abuse that’s set to go to trial in November 2027. (The singer denies any wrongdoing, and in 2025 a four-year investigation into his alleged crimes was dropped with no charges filed.) If metal is supposed to uplift the downtrodden, then putting a man accused of wrongdoing by more than a dozen women on one of Europe’s biggest stages feels like the antithesis of everything the genre stands for.
Manson, whose real name is Brian Hugh Warner, retreated from the public eye after the start of the allegations against him in 2021, but he returned in 2024 with a new record deal and a string of high-profile tour dates. He’s far from the only allegedly problematic figure to have recently made a successful musical comeback. Chris Brown, who in 2009 pleaded guilty to felony assault of his ex-girlfriend Rihanna, and Ye (formerly Kanye West), who made a string of antisemitic statements in 2022, are playing massive venues. Earlier this month, the Guardian published an op-ed about Queen of the Stone Age frontman Josh Homme’s cosy image rehabilitation after he kicked a female photographer and his ex-wife accused him of domestic abuse.
Metal, with its long-established identity as a dangerous and anti-mainstream force, appears to be particularly lenient with this kind of figure. The news of Manson touring with Slipknot came three months after Pantera supported Metallica on their second night at the 62,500-capacity London Stadium. In 2016, Pantera singer Phil Anselmo faced widespread backlash for raising his hand and screaming “white power!” onstage at a charity concert. He eventually apologised, but in 2017 gave an interview where he called some of his detractors “phonies”. None of it stopped his band from reuniting to much celebration in 2022. In November, Nuclear Blast Records, the same label to which Manson signed in 2024, will release a new album by Anselmo’s other group, Down.
In February, As I Lay Dying are poised to release a new album. The band split in 2014 after its sole constant member, singer Tim Lambesis, was sentenced to six years in prison for soliciting the murder of his ex-wife. Then, in 2024, everyone bar Lambesis quit the band, and some disturbing video surfaced online where he’s seen flipping a table that another ex-wife was sitting at. (The former couple have each accused the other of abuse.) As I Lay Dying’s latest single, aptly entitled Polarized, has amassed 560,000 YouTube views in two weeks regardless.
Fuck Marilyn Manson, listen to Conan!
There’s three aspects to this specific instance of it
First, and foremost, it’s Manson. Everyone knew he was fucked in the head decades ago. Nobody was ash at all surprised to hear that he’d been a douche and elevated it to criminal levels because he’s always been pretty douchey aside from being also known for breaking down expectations of appearances. Like, he’s long been known to be into really edgy sexual shit. So anyone that was already a fan knew it was bound to become public at some point.
Second, it really wasn’t the big news it seems like it would be. Yeah, it got coverage, but since he didn’t do jail time (and likely won’t), it never really amounted to much. There’s a shit ton of people that just don’t know. I was talking to someone early this year and they hadn’t heard about it all. Mind you, their respond was “not surprised”. Plus, plenty of people think it has already been in court and over with. That goes along with the lack of consequences to add up in some perceptions as being a nothing burger.
Third, metal isn’t monolithic, and opening acts just aren’t given the same scrutiny by the segment of fans that are of the mind to boycott or protest unsettled issues. As in, he used to be the headliner. Now he’s second fiddle. He doesn’t have the same level of fandom he used to. And meatheads care less about him opening for someone than they would if it was his tour.
Fwiw, metalheads do run high towards a degree of social awareness, but that isn’t a 1:1 correlation with automatically jumping on a bandwagon. Metal also has a strong contrarian, anti-mainstream aspect. Since uplifting the downtrodden is only one facet of that, and it isn’t universal, you can’t assume that metalheads are going to agree that a given act needs censure.
Hell, I’m not on the bandwagon of trashing someone that hasn’t had their day in court. I don’t object to anyone boycotting a given performer/band for whatever, but I’ll be fucked if anyone is going to dictate that I do or don’t. And that’s a very metalhead stance on most things. You try and tell metalheads that they have to conform to your idea of what should be done when a performer is douche, you’re now the douche. Seriously, ignoring the current specific subject matter, never waste your time telling a metalhead they’re obligated to follow your beliefs. All you’ll get in return is a middle finger. And that’s the nice response.
I am very surprised that slipknot is working with him, they tend to be more assertive about such things than a lot of bands.
From a metalhead to someone that isn’t, but that I very much respect, your concept of the metal community is flawed. Metal fans can be some of the most balls out, staunch allies of the underdog you’ll ever hope to see. But that isn’t the sum total of being part of that community, and there are segments that are distinctly hated by the majority that are absolute pieces of shit. There’s white nationalist metal fans, though they tend to stick mostly to the shitty bands that espouse that belief. There’s segments that are absolutely misogynist, homophobic, and other forms of bigot.
The most defining trait you’ll run into isn’t so much uplifting anyone, it’s opposition to the status quo, the mainstream, the “normies” (though I hate that fucking word). That comes along with, as mentioned earlier, a lot of contrarianism. Just by someone saying they should avoid Manson, a lot of metalheads will think “fuck you, you don’t tell me what to like”. The worst elements would park outside your house and blast his music, even if they weren’t actually fans.
Ngl, I’m of the sort that is going to outright say fuck you, you don’t tell me what to like, even if I agree and would be avoiding a band on my own. It’s different now to a degree, but being a metalhead back in the eighties was a fucking fight. You got into metal and all of a sudden people are shitting on you. “That’s satanic”, it’s this, it’s that, you’re this or that. Since the music itself could explicitly oppose that kind of thing, you likely wouldn’t have gotten past the usual fluffy hair bands if you weren’t already a little contrarian. If you weren’t, you were likely to become so lol.
From a metalhead to someone that isn’t, but that I very much respect, your concept of the metal community is flawed
Sorry, I was in the middle of reading your response and had to stop here. Why do you think I’m not a metalhead?
Ahhhh, generally the concept of metalheads as being well defined as a group as being about uplifting the downtrodden.
Could just be your local scene, I dunno, but in meatspace or online, that has never been the zeitgeist of metaldom, not in my fortyish years in the community (though, tbh, the first ten or so was purely local, I didn’t travel around to shows as a kid). I just figured that had you been a metalhead long, you’d have run into the other, more universal aspects.
I’m also delineating between metalheads and folks that just like some metal music. It’s a cultural/community thing rather than just listening to some of it, or even listening to it exclusively.
There’s a pretty solid metal scene in the PNW and I was involved for a long time. I’ve moved into more punk as I aged, but this community is not foreign to me.
Sorry for assuming. I really should know better than that by this point in my life lol
I like you a lot and didn’t want you to have the wrong impression of me!! Haha. Thanks for the comments, they were thought provoking :)
Fwiw, metalheads do run high towards a degree of social awareness, but that isn’t a 1:1 correlation with automatically jumping on a bandwagon. Metal also has a strong contrarian, anti-mainstream aspect. Since uplifting the downtrodden is only one facet of that, and it isn’t universal, you can’t assume that metalheads are going to agree that a given act needs censure.
Hell, I’m not on the bandwagon of trashing someone that hasn’t had their day in court. I don’t object to anyone boycotting a given performer/band for whatever, but I’ll be fucked if anyone is going to dictate that I do or don’t. And that’s a very metalhead stance on most things. You try and tell metalheads that they have to conform to your idea of what should be done when a performer is douche, you’re now the douche. Seriously, ignoring the current specific subject matter, never waste your time telling a metalhead they’re obligated to follow your beliefs. All you’ll get in return is a middle finger. And that’s the nice response.
If the wider metal community is going to look at being asked to take a more critical look at some of the artists they enjoy because of said artists violence against women as being worthy of a middle finger, then the metal community is simultaneously giving a middle finger to all the women and LGBT+ metal fans that are also there.
This isn’t a black and white scenario. It’s ok to take in new information and mull it over before immediately rejecting progressivism.
I’m just saying that if you try to force it, you’ll get backlash harder than if you just gave information.
Most metalheads, given the info that someone is a douche are going to lose interest fast, barring the edgelords of the community. It’s when you try and dictate their response, or start giving them shit that it goes contrarian.
And that’s understandable - most people don’t enjoy being forced to do anything. I don’t view opening the conversation around why we’re all okay with opening acts like this as forcing anyone though. It’s starting a conversation.
Maybe some people will learn of these allegations where they didn’t know about them before and they can make more informed decisions about the art they consume.
For the record, I was a huge metalhead and still listen to some metal now. I listen to a lot more punk these days. But I’m not uninformed about this area.
I get you :)
I’m able to separate art and artist very well in terms of what I’ll enjoy in my own life, but I’ll be damned if I would spend a dime to see that guy at this point.
Even with him not having his day in court, a chance to counter the accusation in a useful way, I have little tolerance for that kind of thing. But, knowing how limiting it can be to have to wait until a court case happens to present anything publicly, I can’t make myself care if others are willing to pay money to see him.
I totally believe the accusations. And, I tend to err on the side of giving preliminary belief to a victim, even while also insisting that the accused is only accused until all evidence is available. But in this case? Yeah, everything he was accused of is perfectly in line with things he’s said over his public life. He may well have evidence that those things weren’t illegal, and/or that they aren’t tortious enough to merit the lawsuit being found for the plaintiff.
But that’s still only about the court side of things. He’s yet to deny doing some really fucked up shit to people. He’s even admitted some of it, claiming consent. And I don’t often kink shame. But in this case? No thanks. I wouldn’t be able to see him live without being aware I put money in his pocket. Hell, I had trouble just watching his most recent music videos. Couldn’t finish them. I still enjoy his older music and videos though. Like I said, I’m usually good at the art/artist duality. But if I had to replace what I have, I’d pirate it.
Sorry again for my assumption btw. I really should know better
Sorry again for my assumption btw. I really should know better
No worries, I can’t say I’m innocent from making assumptions sometimes, too lol
This is pretty much how I feel about the whole situation when it comes to artists being scummy like this - it’s a little give and take depending on circumstances, apologies, outcomes of court cases, all that. So it’s nuanced. But with Manson? Ugh, I’m not happy that he’s being allowed to re-invent himself, so to speak, with this particular history.
It wouldn’t be so bad if he was believable about having rethought things. I might believe he’s gotten too old and tired to do anything about it, but there’s no way he really changed his thinking.
Manson was a putz back in the day and remains one now. I don’t understand his popularity. And in the face of these charges. Even If true- he will still have the support of idiots across the globe.
Is heavy metal about uplifting the downtrodden? Not that it’s against it, but I’ve listened to a lot of metal and that wouldn’t be the first ethos I associate it with.
But anyway the answer is because most people who are listening to music are just there to consume the music. There’s a good chance they don’t care about who the artists are as people, if they’re even aware of controversy at all.
I’ve certainly viewed metal as a gathering of like-minded souls that otherwise feel ostracized from society. So yeah, I can see the view of it being about uplifting the downtrodden in a way.
I don’t know a single metalhead that likes or ever liked manson beyond maybe the dope show. He’s been washed up for nearly 30 years.
The trouble with becoming a household name is you can make more than average money by being a burnt out loser. See, for example, Bert Kreischer,Andy Dick, Bam Margera, Steven Seagall, Pauly Shore, Cory Feldman…
He’s an archetype. He doesn’t have fans. He’s a symbol of a former cultural zeitgeist who has been all but hollowed out by drugs and capitalism.
Then that leaves me even more puzzled why Slipknot agreed to have Manson as an opener.
I sure as fuck didn’t forget. It pains me to see people still going to shows from total assholes. And shame on the other bands that share a stage with these people. Everyone needs to do better here.
And shame on the other bands that share a stage with these people.
If Macklemore and Dropkick Murphy’s can stand up for their morals, I absolutely expect bands to do the same in these situations. It’s really disappointing to see Slipknot working with Manson.
Money.
