Not really because I just use the stuff. I only use the command line for very basic stuff, usually.
Linux is really nowhere near as hard as you’re making it out to be, 99% of the time.
Yeah, there are times when you run into edge cases that are frustrating. Although I’ve had that with windows once in awhile.
I’ve used Mint for about 10y then ran into a situation where AMD gfx card was too new for the kernel and switched to a Fedora based distro. Which is kind of outrageous to have to do that. But that’s the first time in a decade.
I try to stick to hardware that is fairly mainstream or which implements mainstream standards.
It helps a lot if you’re comfortable with bash. Otherwise if you run into issues and some website gives you a bunch of commands they look like line noise.
I mean, *nix is kind of arcane. But once you know about command format, pipes, redirects, and maybe a couple dozen commands, it gets a lot better.
I learned all this stuff back in the late 80s so it is second nature to me. But it was a learning curve back then. But then, so is powershell or dos.
I don’t disagree with the bit about general users… but I don’t know that Windows handles idiots all that much better, based on how it’s handled me (an idiot).
Sometimes issues come up in an OS which require some intensive searching or a help desk (H4B grrr). Although I haven’t had to reinstall Win anytime in the last like 15 years or more.
I think software availability plays significantly in terms of viability of Linux for desktop.
Windows is still a middle ground of functionality and user safety. Better for corporate tasks than a Mac, better for gaming than both, and benefits from massive marketshare making their systems better knows though osmosis, superusers still know their way around windows as well as any knows theirs around Linux.
Developers aren’t going to go after a 3% desktop market share of Linux users so most software development is still Windows and .net based in the corpo and developer spaces.
Linux as a desktop OS lacks both usability and compatability still. I don’t have to emulate shit in windows to do anything. No wine, no Proton, nothing. A normal user never has to touch a console in windows. Until you can go the lifetime of a PC for a regular user not needing the console then Linux will not be as viable as Windows for ‘regular’ users.
I can install whatever I want without any command lines lmao. Thanks for proving my point. Windows just kinda works with an (mostly) intuitive UI and no need to remember thousands of commands which make no sense.
This is how you made clear that you aren’t very experienced. The type of shit that goes wrong with Linux and Windows has a lot of overlap. The difference being that if Linux breaks you have a chance to learn something and fix it. Whereas when Windows inevitably bricks your system with a shitty update that got force installed, you normally have to reinstall your OS
Just admit that your issue with Linux is that you learned a thing and don’t want to learn another because you’re a lazy coward.
Congrats, if that’s true. You’re the exception, not the rule. Windows has bricked itself on several users with a couple of updates before tho (and I know this because one of those is exactly when i learned how much of a removed it can be to actually install on your system), and a quick basic search proves that yeah, this isn’t some rare thing, the OS tends to do that sometimes to the frustration of many.
You actually legitimately think windows bricking itself is a rule? That the most used OS in pcs just shits itself yet people still continue using it? I mean, have you considered that there might be a reason why linux is only used in backend server voodoo things and toothbrushes?
It’s not what I think tho, it’s what’s written by others…unless I’m somehow imagining actual search results of people detailing their experiences of their machine, yes. bricking themselves. That, or Google results and Microsoft’s own forum posts are lying. Along with several other threads, videos, and examples. Which i very much douvt is the case here.
It’s a man-made thing. No man-made thing is infallible. They can and sometimes do break or mess up. That shouldn’t be hard to understand, i should think
That, or Google results and Microsoft’s own forum posts are lying. Along with several other threads, videos, and examples. Which i very much douvt is the case here.
Ooof. That thread is actually a gold mine for linuxboys ahaha, My bricking-my-linux-jar got like 10 coins over the last 25 years. holy shit he bricks his PC around every 2 and a half years, that is actually bad, I’ve had windows installs for at least 5 years easily, I only reinstall with new SSDs.
Everything was going fine, until I executed this command:
efibootmgr -c -g -d /dev/sdX -p Y -w -L “Arch Linux (rEFInd)” -l ‘\EFI\arch\refind\refindx64.efi’
Like of course if the OS you’re using has you summon a fucking demon then yeah it’s a bad OS
I mean I don’t talk about PCs a lot with my peers, but I’ve never heard anyone mention their PCs bricked. I’ve heard a lot about android phones shitting themselves but they aren’t based off of windows. Can’t remember what kernel android’s based off of, can you help reminding me?
You say this as if command line is bad? I love the command line for certain tasks. A very common task I do is convert an image from one filetype to another. How does this work on windows? Assuming I have a program that works with each image filetype, I open up the program, click on some menus and dropdown selections and click convert or “save as file type”. On linux, where every major distro has imagemagick installed by default I type
convert image.jpg image.pdf
and done. I mean, how much easier can that be?
Or another example is merging a bunch of pdfs. I imagine adobe acrobat can do this, but I’ve never bothered to learn how, as I quickly learned that I can do it using pdftk on linux by typing
pdftk file1.pdf file2.pdf cat output merged.pdf
and done. If I do happen to forget the exact syntax for that command, google gives me the answer instantly.
If there’s a difficult command line thing to do with lots of options that can get confusing, there is a GUI interface that someone has written that has the dropdown boxes so you don’t HAVE to learn the specific options, but a little bit of learning the command line makes many tasks way more convenient than a typical windows GUI program.
Regarding wine, you’ve obviously have never used it (or likely even linux). I used my linux pc for 13 years before installing wine to play WoW. (side note to another of your strange assertions, I knew zero programming languages when I switched to linux.) Although, I wasn’t really gaming at all in that time period. I mainly do work on my pc, and the software I use is so much more convenient to us on linux than windows: mainly latex and vim. Some friend asked me to play WoW with them and I said “If I can get it to run on linux, I will.” Kind of thinking it would be a huge pain in the ass to get to run. But the whole process went super smooth, it was maybe 3 commands and now I use zero command line to launch WoW using wine.
Finally, I don’t like the windows UI. Floating desktop managers always annoyed me (including the linux ones such as gnome) whenever I needed multiple windows displayed at once. Way too much fiddliness adjusting window sizes and borders. I learned about tiling window managers, and that’s what I use now. Is tiling even possible on windows? I know you can win+arrow to kinda do this, but then rearranging can be a pain. I know this is all personal preference and most people like floating windows, but it’s a choice I can make on linux.
I say that as in linux is not well designed if it needs years of CS experience to run and maintain, especially when its alternative is windows which works intuitively.
It’s not made better by the fact that linuxboys constantly make up stuff about windows, like the comment which I originally replied to that got under the skin of all the 13 people in the world that use linux on their pc
55 clicks because you exxagurated commands as well
Actually, open chrome and downloading the exe installer itself takes almost 10clicks + typing the search query. Then clicks to go to downloads, double clicking the exe, the wizard appears.
Now the wizards for apps might differ but on average you may have to select some options, maybe select install directory, then click next, next,next, install
Wait untill installed
Click finish.
This is more tiresome than opening store, searching app, click install
sudo - equivalent to right clicking and running as administrator
apt - just an abbreviation of Advanced Package Tool, but this is almost rarely seen without install, remove, update, or upgrade after it so most beginners think of apt install as one part
In the interest of fairness, maybe the first time you ever do it, yeah, I can see it as someone completely new to this thinking it’s black magic (heck, I’ve used Linux as my daily OS for a while and some of the things users are able to do with their skills, i describe as black magic lol). After a while tho, it becomes no big deal, and the user might even prefer doing it that way because it’s quicker (IMO) to que up a buncha packages to install one after the other vs hunting them all down and installing one by one. But yeah, point is, it can look unintuitive if you’re new to it…but once you’re used to seeing it, it’s like “ah, ok, it’s just another way to do things”
And there also nothing really stopping you from installing stuff the ol Windows way, if that’s how you prefer to do things. Just open your package manager and look up what ya need. Or even open your browser and go to the offical site, they might also have official packages to download.
Either way is valid and up to the user’s prefrences. Never understood why both sides sometimes make it sound as if there’s only one way to install stuff on Linux (not saying you’re doing that here specifically, to be clear, but I’ve seen others do so. The other person kinda is tho).
Do you ever feel tired of having to type 55 lines of commands into the console just to open Wine to actually use your pc?
Not really because I just use the stuff. I only use the command line for very basic stuff, usually.
Linux is really nowhere near as hard as you’re making it out to be, 99% of the time.
Yeah, there are times when you run into edge cases that are frustrating. Although I’ve had that with windows once in awhile.
I’ve used Mint for about 10y then ran into a situation where AMD gfx card was too new for the kernel and switched to a Fedora based distro. Which is kind of outrageous to have to do that. But that’s the first time in a decade.
I try to stick to hardware that is fairly mainstream or which implements mainstream standards.
It helps a lot if you’re comfortable with bash. Otherwise if you run into issues and some website gives you a bunch of commands they look like line noise.
I mean, *nix is kind of arcane. But once you know about command format, pipes, redirects, and maybe a couple dozen commands, it gets a lot better.
I learned all this stuff back in the late 80s so it is second nature to me. But it was a learning curve back then. But then, so is powershell or dos.
https://linuxmint-user-guide.readthedocs.io/en/latest/edge.html
Cool will check out. I would love to get back to using Mint.
The general populace are nowhere near at competent as you’re making them out to be, 99% of the time.
3% desktop marketshare. Linux won’t be seen as a viable solution until it is capable of handling an idiot half as well as Windows.
I don’t disagree with the bit about general users… but I don’t know that Windows handles idiots all that much better, based on how it’s handled me (an idiot).
Sometimes issues come up in an OS which require some intensive searching or a help desk (H4B grrr). Although I haven’t had to reinstall Win anytime in the last like 15 years or more.
I think software availability plays significantly in terms of viability of Linux for desktop.
Windows is still a middle ground of functionality and user safety. Better for corporate tasks than a Mac, better for gaming than both, and benefits from massive marketshare making their systems better knows though osmosis, superusers still know their way around windows as well as any knows theirs around Linux.
Developers aren’t going to go after a 3% desktop market share of Linux users so most software development is still Windows and .net based in the corpo and developer spaces.
Linux as a desktop OS lacks both usability and compatability still. I don’t have to emulate shit in windows to do anything. No wine, no Proton, nothing. A normal user never has to touch a console in windows. Until you can go the lifetime of a PC for a regular user not needing the console then Linux will not be as viable as Windows for ‘regular’ users.
*typetypetype*
*3D printed arm connected to raspberry pi opens wine bottle on desk*
*glug-glug-glug*
Now I’m ready to use my pc
deleted by creator
I can install whatever I want without any command lines lmao. Thanks for proving my point. Windows just kinda works with an (mostly) intuitive UI and no need to remember thousands of commands which make no sense.
This is how you made clear that you aren’t very experienced. The type of shit that goes wrong with Linux and Windows has a lot of overlap. The difference being that if Linux breaks you have a chance to learn something and fix it. Whereas when Windows inevitably bricks your system with a shitty update that got force installed, you normally have to reinstall your OS
Just admit that your issue with Linux is that you learned a thing and don’t want to learn another because you’re a lazy coward.
Never had a windows brick on me but nice fantasy argument I’ll keep in my backpocket
Congrats, if that’s true. You’re the exception, not the rule. Windows has bricked itself on several users with a couple of updates before tho (and I know this because one of those is exactly when i learned how much of a removed it can be to actually install on your system), and a quick basic search proves that yeah, this isn’t some rare thing, the OS tends to do that sometimes to the frustration of many.
You actually legitimately think windows bricking itself is a rule? That the most used OS in pcs just shits itself yet people still continue using it? I mean, have you considered that there might be a reason why linux is only used in backend server voodoo things and toothbrushes?
It’s not what I think tho, it’s what’s written by others…unless I’m somehow imagining actual search results of people detailing their experiences of their machine, yes. bricking themselves. That, or Google results and Microsoft’s own forum posts are lying. Along with several other threads, videos, and examples. Which i very much douvt is the case here.
It’s a man-made thing. No man-made thing is infallible. They can and sometimes do break or mess up. That shouldn’t be hard to understand, i should think
Me neither
Oh
Ooof. That thread is actually a gold mine for linuxboys ahaha, My bricking-my-linux-jar got like 10 coins over the last 25 years. holy shit he bricks his PC around every 2 and a half years, that is actually bad, I’ve had windows installs for at least 5 years easily, I only reinstall with new SSDs.
Everything was going fine, until I executed this command: efibootmgr -c -g -d /dev/sdX -p Y -w -L “Arch Linux (rEFInd)” -l ‘\EFI\arch\refind\refindx64.efi’
Like of course if the OS you’re using has you summon a fucking demon then yeah it’s a bad OS
Okay done googling now but oh damn that’s a goldmine, thanks for pointing me to that direction, it does prove a point. My point.
deleted by creator
Then I don’t think you’ve met many people.
I mean I don’t talk about PCs a lot with my peers, but I’ve never heard anyone mention their PCs bricked. I’ve heard a lot about android phones shitting themselves but they aren’t based off of windows. Can’t remember what kernel android’s based off of, can you help reminding me?
Feel free to copy the below for yourself
- SaakoPaahtaa
Right that’s because you’re 17
And a lazy coward
Linux users everyone
“if your os requires experience it sucks!”
So windows sucks ass then, is your point?
Linux users are just people who don’t swallow whatever bullshit is popular.
17 year olds are… Not that.
Design that’s bad is bad design, sorry mate
You say this as if command line is bad? I love the command line for certain tasks. A very common task I do is convert an image from one filetype to another. How does this work on windows? Assuming I have a program that works with each image filetype, I open up the program, click on some menus and dropdown selections and click convert or “save as file type”. On linux, where every major distro has imagemagick installed by default I type
convert image.jpg image.pdfand done. I mean, how much easier can that be?
Or another example is merging a bunch of pdfs. I imagine adobe acrobat can do this, but I’ve never bothered to learn how, as I quickly learned that I can do it using pdftk on linux by typing
pdftk file1.pdf file2.pdf cat output merged.pdfand done. If I do happen to forget the exact syntax for that command, google gives me the answer instantly.
If there’s a difficult command line thing to do with lots of options that can get confusing, there is a GUI interface that someone has written that has the dropdown boxes so you don’t HAVE to learn the specific options, but a little bit of learning the command line makes many tasks way more convenient than a typical windows GUI program.
Regarding wine, you’ve obviously have never used it (or likely even linux). I used my linux pc for 13 years before installing wine to play WoW. (side note to another of your strange assertions, I knew zero programming languages when I switched to linux.) Although, I wasn’t really gaming at all in that time period. I mainly do work on my pc, and the software I use is so much more convenient to us on linux than windows: mainly latex and vim. Some friend asked me to play WoW with them and I said “If I can get it to run on linux, I will.” Kind of thinking it would be a huge pain in the ass to get to run. But the whole process went super smooth, it was maybe 3 commands and now I use zero command line to launch WoW using wine.
Finally, I don’t like the windows UI. Floating desktop managers always annoyed me (including the linux ones such as gnome) whenever I needed multiple windows displayed at once. Way too much fiddliness adjusting window sizes and borders. I learned about tiling window managers, and that’s what I use now. Is tiling even possible on windows? I know you can win+arrow to kinda do this, but then rearranging can be a pain. I know this is all personal preference and most people like floating windows, but it’s a choice I can make on linux.
I say that as in linux is not well designed if it needs years of CS experience to run and maintain, especially when its alternative is windows which works intuitively.
It’s not made better by the fact that linuxboys constantly make up stuff about windows, like the comment which I originally replied to that got under the skin of all the 13 people in the world that use linux on their pc
Yah but you need to do 55 clicks instead to install some program after downloading it from browser.
You can install and run wine from either GUI(even less clicks) or just a oneliner command
55 clicks? Just a double click on the installer and go through the wizard, ez pz, especially when compared to
-git sudo 82737492 dor kror o k /87 +91 ||qidl
Just for it not to work since you don’t have the required punchcard from 60s
55 clicks because you exxagurated commands as well
Actually, open chrome and downloading the exe installer itself takes almost 10clicks + typing the search query. Then clicks to go to downloads, double clicking the exe, the wizard appears. Now the wizards for apps might differ but on average you may have to select some options, maybe select install directory, then click next, next,next, install
Wait untill installed
Click finish.
This is more tiresome than opening store, searching app, click install
Or alternatively
sudo apt install wineOr just install Wine from the software update app. Or just let Lutris handle your Wine installation and configuration.
Hey at least its intuitive unlike using weird judo rm rf voodoo shit
What’s unintuitive about
sudo apt install wine?sudo- equivalent to right clicking and running as administratorapt- just an abbreviation of Advanced Package Tool, but this is almost rarely seen without install, remove, update, or upgrade after it so most beginners think ofapt installas one partinstall- self-explanatorywine- the name of what you want to installThis is an invalid command, but nice try.
In the interest of fairness, maybe the first time you ever do it, yeah, I can see it as someone completely new to this thinking it’s black magic (heck, I’ve used Linux as my daily OS for a while and some of the things users are able to do with their skills, i describe as black magic lol). After a while tho, it becomes no big deal, and the user might even prefer doing it that way because it’s quicker (IMO) to que up a buncha packages to install one after the other vs hunting them all down and installing one by one. But yeah, point is, it can look unintuitive if you’re new to it…but once you’re used to seeing it, it’s like “ah, ok, it’s just another way to do things”
And there also nothing really stopping you from installing stuff the ol Windows way, if that’s how you prefer to do things. Just open your package manager and look up what ya need. Or even open your browser and go to the offical site, they might also have official packages to download.
Either way is valid and up to the user’s prefrences. Never understood why both sides sometimes make it sound as if there’s only one way to install stuff on Linux (not saying you’re doing that here specifically, to be clear, but I’ve seen others do so. The other person kinda is tho).
/s on this or not?
Well as i said, use store app to install software if you preffer that. Thats fucking intuitive than windows
I’m sorry what’s this supposed to mean?