If you can create a Lemmy instance and federate, you can shovel data about every vote linked to an account - eviltoast

I’ve created this post: https://sh.itjust.works/post/8898162

And some admin showed they can see how the upvotes\downvotes go.

If you are concerned about privacy, you should know, that this data on Lemmy can be easily mined and tracked.

  • Otter@lemmy.caEnglish
    10·
    1 year ago

    From when I was asking about it, I think it’s only the instance admins that can see the details. It would be nice to have this information clearly outlined somewhere, so people know and aren’t surprised.

    Maybe a table like

    What can each person see

    Lemmy

    Other users Community Moderators Instance Admins
    info A1 info B1 info C1 (all)
    info A2 info B2 info C2 (home instance)
    info A3 info B3 info C3 (community’s instance)

    Reddit

    Other users Community Moderators Instance Admins
    info A1 info B1 info C1 (all)
    info A2 info B2 info C2 (all)
    info A3 info B3 info C3 (all)
    info A4 info B4 info C4 (all)
    • e0qdk@kbin.social
      4·
      1 year ago

      Anyone can see any upvote from federated users via kbin – for example, the upvotes on the comment this is a reply to can be seen here: https://kbin.social/m/privacyguides@lemmy.one/t/616970/If-you-can-create-a-Lemmy-instance-and-federate-you/comment/3491191/favourites

      That may not be complete or consistent though given the way federation works.

      Downvotes from lemmy do not show up. (Not sure why not; haven’t dug into it.) Only downvotes from kbin members are shown on kbin. Also unclear to me if downvotes between different kbin/mbin instances show up or if it’s the local instance only. (I’ve only noticed local downvotes, but haven’t really been looking.)

        • e0qdk@kbin.social
          5·
          1 year ago

          Yeah, I had a mixed reaction to finding that out a while ago, but I’m kind of just rolling with it for now. Votes are just simply NOT private on here, for better or worse. My feeling right now is that it’s sort of positive from a community feel perspective, but I’m also avoiding interacting with a lot of subjects I consider more controversial.

          Probably we’ll end up developing a culture of either lots of alts used simultaneously, short lived accounts with regular name changes, or both as people become more aware of this. Either that or people will just say “Fuck it. You really want to see all the weird porn I like and my political preferences and what not? Don’t blame me if you regret looking!” :p

          • Otter@lemmy.caEnglish
            2·
            1 year ago

            Appreciate the thoughts, it gives me more to think about. I’ve also been avoiding controversial subject matter and I think I’ll avoid it even more now.

            I do think the Fediverse needs to improve privacy and ease of use for alts. I’ve seen a lot of stuff over the years on Reddit that an authoritarian government would love to get their hands on. I guess the fediverse, by design, can’t be private? I worry that someone who doesn’t know better will get hurt because they don’t understand the risks.

            All the more reason to join trusted instances with solid admins, and to keep your Lemmy profile separate from your real identity.

            A possible workflow right now might be to browse on one account, and post comments from another. Boost on Reddit made that easier, but I don’t think the Lemmy one does that yet

              • Otter@lemmy.caEnglish
                2·
                1 year ago

                The internet is a messy place and I like my privacy

                I think people will feel more comfortable voting if it wasn’t made public. Same reason we add privacy booths during elections, or put our heads down in class when voting on simple things

                  • Otter@lemmy.caEnglish
                    3·
                    1 year ago

                    I’m not sure I understand

                    If everyone can see what I upvote, then I’m going to take that into consideration before voting. If it was private, then I wouldn’t worry about it and vote whenever I want to.

                    Overall this might be a good thing because it exposes bad behaviour, such as downvoting the person who disagrees with you.

                    This might be a problem if, for example, there’s a post critical of moderators / admins. You might want to upvote it, but worry about getting banned. If your Lemmy profile can be linked to your real identity, you might worry about real world consequences too.

                • e0qdk@kbin.social
                  2·
                  1 year ago

                  A vote on kbin/lemmy is closer to a retweet than to a vote on reddit in terms of its potential impact on folks. You are publicly saying you support/do not support a post by voting on it (which might be taken as publicly thanking someone with an upvote or publicly saying fuck you with a downvote in some contexts); that can be a workable system, but it’s surprising if you’re coming from reddit where basically no one but the admins (and whoever they told/sold the data to) actually knows what you voted up/down.

                  Hell, consider all the drama around “YOU DOWNVOTED ME!!” / “No I didn’t!” BS that was so common even when it was just suspected – now it can be confirmed (again, for better or worse), for kbin users. I was on reddit for a long time and just thinking about that crap makes me feel tired… -.- Downvoting on kbin is potentially picking a fight every time. The end result is that I’ve basically never downvoted anything except some spam bots. I don’t need that shit in my life again – even for some of the posts that I think really should be downvoted, I’m just ignoring now. (Not getting into it further. Don’t ask. I won’t respond.)

                  If your IRL identity is associated with your account (or can be figured out eventually…), upvoting something really spicy could also end up causing you the same kind of drama IRL as retweeting or commenting strongly on the post – e.g. job loss, loss of business, targeted harassment/violence campaigns, loss of friends/romantic partners, etc…

                  I really don’t need more drama in my life, so I’m a bit more mindful of how I’m voting (for better or worse) and some stuff I probably would’ve voted on before, I am just leaving alone now.