The point remains Epic lies saying they “help devs” Valve never claims anything.
I mean, it’s factually true that they offer the game makers and their associated publishers a much better split than what Valve does. Valve takes 30% off of all purchases. Epic takes 12. Some companies actually get 100% of all profits the first 6 months. You can’t say Valve offers more. They might have a better storefront and more users, sure, but those aren’t merits of the company itself. It’s just merits of a monopoly.
And Valve has always tried to claim that it was “part of the community, rather than standing above it.” Which is, of course, bullshit. They’re not part of any community. They’re a storefront. Their entire purpose is to make money off of other people’s labor.
Come on, man, be better than “omg good guy Valve!” It’s as shitty a company as any. Don’t get suckered into thinking anything else.
“Let’s also not conflate “developers” with “companies” Epic will talk about paying developers a better cut but often times it is the publisher not the developer that gets paid.”
You’re doing it again. I don’t know why I got caught up in this whataboutism with you when I made myself clear from the start and you agree. It’s like you want me to argue for Valve when I don’t care. GoG is best storefront for the end user and it’s not even close.
You do understand when it says “developers” it’s not talking about individual, human developers that sit at a computer and code levels, and instead means “game development companies,” right? Also, it’s not a “whataboutism” - it’s a direct refutation of your argument. Your argument was specifically about Valve being a “good company.” I provided evidence that it’s not a good company. That’s not a whataboutism. A whatabousim would be somebody criticizing Valve and someone else saying “well, what about Epic?!”
Right, but your statements are entirely in response to what you believe Epic’s PR statements are saying. Earlier you stated:
The point remains Epic lies saying they “help devs” Valve never claims anything.
This is what you said. You are assuming that Epic has made claims that it helps individual developers (people whose job is to develop games). I don’t think this is accurate: I believe that the intent behind Epic’s statements is that it aims to help “Game Development Companies.”
Either way, it doesn’t really matter. Epic, Valve, whomever: they’re companies. Loyalty to them is pathetic.
I am meaning that Epic talks about a better cut for developers when really it’s a better cut for publishers. If Epic said they give a bigger cut to corporate entities I honestly don’t give a single flying fuck. Pay 50% to the store, I don’t care about your capitalist entities.
I’m not arguing loyalty for Valve just that Valve doesn’t pretend they’re helping the poor little developers with their bullshit to fuck over end users.
Also.
I don’t think this is accurate: I believe that the intent behind Epic’s statements is that it aims to help “Game Development Companies.”
This is completely propaganda in my opinion. Epic can afford to use two more words instead of just calling them developers and being entirely vague unless they enjoy the misleading nature of calling them developers. Developers are people full stop.
Valve doesn’t pretend they’re helping the poor little developers with their bullshit to fuck over end users.
I mean, they have done this. Back when they initiated their marketplace and created paid mods for Skyrim, they basically touted it as a way of allowing artists and content designers to be paid for their work. Valve took almost all the profit from these initiatives. Like, by far almost every single dime. You’re just not aware of it because you don’t want to be, or haven’t been around long enough to see Valve show it’s colors as the sleazy corporation it always was.
Epic can afford to use two more words instead of just calling them developers
Okay, but…what about smaller studios that don’t have established publishers? Epic Games does offer a developer portal and dev tools for studios to leverage, including self-publishing. It is entirely possible to both be developer AND publisher. Also, Tim Sweeney has said that Epic would gladly stop its exclusivity deals should Valve commit to matching their 88/12 profit splitting: https://www.gamespot.com/articles/epic-boss-says-exclusives-policy-will-change-if-st/1100-6466479/
Quote from Sweeney: “If Steam committed to a permanent 88% revenue share for all developers and publishers without major strings attached, Epic would hastily organize a retreat from exclusives (while honoring our partner commitments) and consider putting our own games on Steam” - note that they included in their verbiage both terms, which as you’ll notice is not the same as just saying “developers.” They do draw attention to the fact that publishers are among their most prominent business partners.
Look, I’m not saying you can’t criticize Epic. Their launcher is terrible. But if you’re going to criticize something, do it honestly and while at least moderately well informed.
You really love whataboutisms and it’s clear you’re just going to whatabout again and again and again but I’ll indulge you.
Cite how Valve said that they’re helping poor little developers with Skyrim mods. Like I remember the whole thing but I don’t remember the cut valve was taking and how much was bethesda who tried to revive that shit with FO4
Okay, but…what about smaller studios that don’t have established publishers?
I’ve already said I encourage them to take the deal but that doesn’t mean Epic focuses on giving small studios where Devs get rewarded for the exclusivity and you know it. Most of their exclusivity deals will be giving mostly all of the money to massive corporations and the developers will see none of it.
Quote Sweeney all you want but he is not someone I believe at their word and Steam isn’t losing money so I don’t have to worry about losing my games where if EGS shutters I do.
Look, I’m not saying you can’t criticize Epic.
Yes you are. Read your previous comments. You immediately got defensive and jumped to “but what about Steam” and have been actively boot licking for Epic.
I would rather the money go to a company that treats employees better regardless if I can have what I ultimately desire.
The point remains Epic lies saying they “help devs” Valve never claims anything.
Oh, okay, so you mean the company that this guy is talking about where everything was structured like high school cliques?
Or maybe the one in which this transgender employee was referred to by their manager as “it”?
Or maybe you mean the company this former dev talks about where your work space is basically structured so that management can watch your every action at all times?
I mean, it’s factually true that they offer the game makers and their associated publishers a much better split than what Valve does. Valve takes 30% off of all purchases. Epic takes 12. Some companies actually get 100% of all profits the first 6 months. You can’t say Valve offers more. They might have a better storefront and more users, sure, but those aren’t merits of the company itself. It’s just merits of a monopoly.
And Valve has always tried to claim that it was “part of the community, rather than standing above it.” Which is, of course, bullshit. They’re not part of any community. They’re a storefront. Their entire purpose is to make money off of other people’s labor.
Come on, man, be better than “omg good guy Valve!” It’s as shitty a company as any. Don’t get suckered into thinking anything else.
“Let’s also not conflate “developers” with “companies” Epic will talk about paying developers a better cut but often times it is the publisher not the developer that gets paid.”
You’re doing it again. I don’t know why I got caught up in this whataboutism with you when I made myself clear from the start and you agree. It’s like you want me to argue for Valve when I don’t care. GoG is best storefront for the end user and it’s not even close.
You do understand when it says “developers” it’s not talking about individual, human developers that sit at a computer and code levels, and instead means “game development companies,” right? Also, it’s not a “whataboutism” - it’s a direct refutation of your argument. Your argument was specifically about Valve being a “good company.” I provided evidence that it’s not a good company. That’s not a whataboutism. A whatabousim would be somebody criticizing Valve and someone else saying “well, what about Epic?!”
I am talking about people not companies. That’s literally what my first comment said and I quoted it. Hence the “whataboutism” Jfc
Right, but your statements are entirely in response to what you believe Epic’s PR statements are saying. Earlier you stated:
This is what you said. You are assuming that Epic has made claims that it helps individual developers (people whose job is to develop games). I don’t think this is accurate: I believe that the intent behind Epic’s statements is that it aims to help “Game Development Companies.”
Either way, it doesn’t really matter. Epic, Valve, whomever: they’re companies. Loyalty to them is pathetic.
That’s not what I am meaning, sorry.
I am meaning that Epic talks about a better cut for developers when really it’s a better cut for publishers. If Epic said they give a bigger cut to corporate entities I honestly don’t give a single flying fuck. Pay 50% to the store, I don’t care about your capitalist entities.
I’m not arguing loyalty for Valve just that Valve doesn’t pretend they’re helping the poor little developers with their bullshit to fuck over end users.
Also.
This is completely propaganda in my opinion. Epic can afford to use two more words instead of just calling them developers and being entirely vague unless they enjoy the misleading nature of calling them developers. Developers are people full stop.
I mean, they have done this. Back when they initiated their marketplace and created paid mods for Skyrim, they basically touted it as a way of allowing artists and content designers to be paid for their work. Valve took almost all the profit from these initiatives. Like, by far almost every single dime. You’re just not aware of it because you don’t want to be, or haven’t been around long enough to see Valve show it’s colors as the sleazy corporation it always was.
Okay, but…what about smaller studios that don’t have established publishers? Epic Games does offer a developer portal and dev tools for studios to leverage, including self-publishing. It is entirely possible to both be developer AND publisher. Also, Tim Sweeney has said that Epic would gladly stop its exclusivity deals should Valve commit to matching their 88/12 profit splitting: https://www.gamespot.com/articles/epic-boss-says-exclusives-policy-will-change-if-st/1100-6466479/
Quote from Sweeney: “If Steam committed to a permanent 88% revenue share for all developers and publishers without major strings attached, Epic would hastily organize a retreat from exclusives (while honoring our partner commitments) and consider putting our own games on Steam” - note that they included in their verbiage both terms, which as you’ll notice is not the same as just saying “developers.” They do draw attention to the fact that publishers are among their most prominent business partners.
Look, I’m not saying you can’t criticize Epic. Their launcher is terrible. But if you’re going to criticize something, do it honestly and while at least moderately well informed.
You really love whataboutisms and it’s clear you’re just going to whatabout again and again and again but I’ll indulge you.
Cite how Valve said that they’re helping poor little developers with Skyrim mods. Like I remember the whole thing but I don’t remember the cut valve was taking and how much was bethesda who tried to revive that shit with FO4
I’ve already said I encourage them to take the deal but that doesn’t mean Epic focuses on giving small studios where Devs get rewarded for the exclusivity and you know it. Most of their exclusivity deals will be giving mostly all of the money to massive corporations and the developers will see none of it.
Quote Sweeney all you want but he is not someone I believe at their word and Steam isn’t losing money so I don’t have to worry about losing my games where if EGS shutters I do.
Yes you are. Read your previous comments. You immediately got defensive and jumped to “but what about Steam” and have been actively boot licking for Epic.