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Yeah but THEY didn’t have the TECHNOLOGY we do to be able to RAMP UP our DOMESTIC PRODUCTION! So it’s a GOOD THING that President Elon Musk and First Lady Donald Trump HAVENT been Cutting US Investing and Production!
They don’t care what it does to people, it makes some rich people richer like the alcohol prohibition
Wait. I just realized something. One of the significant reasons humans are such amazing creatures compared to the other species is our generational knowledge we can pass down. But we have a saturation point. We need consciousness information downloading. Not immortality. But a way to download Wikipedia to our brains. That’s the next step.
Agreed. It’s so tiring actually navigating Wikipedia. I just want a megacorp to select the best bits and inject them directly into my brain when they see fit!
I don’t think it will work. Some knowledge you just can’t acquire without lived experiences.
The last tariff I personally remember was the 1983 motorcycle tariff signed by Reagan. The Yamaha Virago was seen as such a threat to Harley-Davidson that they pushed for and got a tariff imposed on imported motorcycles over 700ccs engine displacement. Yamaha’s answer was to reduce the engine displacement from 750 to 699cc. The 250cc Virago is still in production today, though they install a straighter handlebar on it and call it a “V-Star 250.”
Targeted tariffs are regularly used for specific reasons. We just don’t normally go all AoE with tariffs.
This is what happens when a populace isn’t properly educated.
Prepare for this country to be on a downward slope for the rest of our lives. That’s the most likely future for us.
The brain drain can already be seen, most have already moved abroad, or are waiting to.
angrily looks at the “verified” badge
If I recall my history right, the 1929 stock market collapse precipitated the Great Depression, and the tariffs were a (misguided) attempt at trying to set the economy straight.
Dont let facts get in the way of a cheeky social media post.
Did it make it better or worse?
In case you are seriously asking this is from Wikipedia.
Intended to bolster domestic employment and manufacturing, the tariffs instead deepened the Depression because the U.S.'s trading partners retaliated with tariffs of their own, leading to U.S. exports and global trade plummeting. Economists and historians widely regard the act as a policy misstep, and it remains a cautionary example of protectionist policy in modern economic debates.
Soooo much much worse.
I figured as such but since he was saying OP was wrong, I thought it worth asking.
The causality there is misleading. We really don’t need any sort of misleading to criticize the cheeto. There’s plenty of legitimate points to make.
Ferris bueller kinda called this one.
The bueller… bueller… bueller bit is preceded by ben stein explaining the Hadley snoot tariffs to a visibly bored and distracted classroom.
From Smoot-Hawley to Bueller-Trumpy.
There’s in general no way this can work long-term. When nations cooperate, they both benefit. If you’re the only nation not cooperating with everyone else, then everyone else will surpass you until you’re North Korea levels of yesteryear.
My macroecon book, which was written by a guy from the Bush administration, hit us over the head with that concept.
It’s strange to thing that he’d be considered a pariah by his party’s leadership now.
Looking at this through the lens of “how can the oligarchs benefit”, it makes complete sense - Strip all government assistance, remove social nets, add tariffs that will basically kill most small businesses (think also farms, mom and pop shops, etc). Lead to depression, billionaires swoop in and buy up land/homes/business for pennies on the dollar (or just basically crush small businesses to get them out of the way). One couldn’t design a better way to fuck over everyone and enrich the oligarchs
Yup, a fire sale for oligarchs.
Did anyone mention how the 1930 tariffs sparked a wave of retaliatory tariffs by other nations, greatly reducing international trade, pushing a natural resources poor Japan to conclude that in order to survive it needed an empire, so it invaded other countries, committing such atrocities that even Nazi Germany was like “whoa dude, chill”, which lead to their participation in WWII, Pearl Harbor and the deployment of nuclear bombs? No?
That’s quite the oversimplification, and I approve.
There’s a lot of oversimplification. But the US embargo on Japan in 1940 led directly to the attack on Pearl Harbor.
The US embargoed all oil to Japan. Japan calculated it had less than 2 years worth of oil before it ran out, so it needed to capture the Dutch East Indies (modern day Indonesia, more or less) because they were a major source of oil. The American puppet state of the Philippines was between Japan and the Dutch East Indies, so they had to deal with that somehow. Their decision was to preemptively attack Pearl Harbor and hope that they could consolidate their gains in the Pacific by the time the US was able to counter-attack.
Japan’s actions in WWII weren’t directly about tariffs, but they were about spheres of influence, like the Greater East-Asia Co-Prosperity Sphere.
A lot of Trump’s posturing seems to be about bringing back these spheres of influence. The US wants to control North America, taking over Greenland and Canada, and leave Europe to become part of the Russian sphere.
Haha yeah, but I could do even better:
Tariffs bad because history
Japan was expanding long before 1930’s. Korea, Mongolia, and parts of China were already under Japan long before 1930.
Yeah that comment is wildly ignorant of Japan’s actions and aspirations pre1930. Fuck Trump and these tariffs, mind you.
But, the full scale invasion of China by happens around 1931, which then lead to the conflict that get China involved in WWII.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mukden_incident https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marco_Polo_Bridge_incident
Yes, full scale. But they already occupied parts of China before 1930. It wasn’t tariffs for Japan. It was sanctions on oil to force them to stop invading. Their response was to speed up invasions to secure oil.
Which I suppose goes to the heart of why tariffs and export restrictions are bad. A country that is pushed into a corner where it will be deprived of an essential commodity is highly incentived to fight for it…
Edit: to be clear, not defending Japan at all. Just considering possible implications
While that sounds good, that’s a reason to not sanction Russia for agression. The alternative to is to not do anything with aggressors.
So you’re saying that Japan threw a shit fit because it wasn’t allowed to trade with other nations. Japan.
Fucking love it.
It’s also wrong on every account; Japan was already doing imperialist shit for decades and it wasn’t tariffs but oil sanctions to try to stymie their fuel supply that sent them raging.
It wasn’t American tariffs, we didn’t fucking matter nearly as much to the world before WWII as after
The whole plan was to move production back to the US. The thing though is, that you can’t make Americans sit and sew Jeans that sell sell for $15 or assemble electronics for $6/hr
Maybe you could 100 years ago, but there is s a reason why we trade across the world and its not because we are kind. It is because it makes companies more money.
This will be mostly messy for the US. The rest of the world now has tarrifs on the US. But US now has tarrifs on the whole world. Any other country can look into expanding in new markets now, but the US has shut all its doors
Yeah we can’t make everything.
Not only do most of those low level factory jobs suck we simply don’t have the workers, we’re at less than 5% unemployment.
we’re at less than 5% unemployment
So far
Queue the prison labor
*Cue
Not if we’re putting them in line to work…
Nor does the US need to make everything.
The US is a service economy. It makes money through capital and intellectual property. Being the first to innovate means also having the opportunity to wedge yourself as a permanent middle man and charge people around the world to pass go.
Think Uber eats for example. If I order food in Toronto from a Toronto based restaurant fulfilled by a courier in Toronto, 30% of my payment is going to them in silicon valley for managing that order.
Similarly, when you purchase an app on Google or Apple store, they are collecting 30%.
If I am in Norway purchasing a game on Steam from a Norwegian developer, you guessed it, 30% is going to Steam.
This is America’s strength now, not making t shirts, shoes or cars entirely domesticallty.
Most of the world was ok with paying the markup for convenience.
Since the US have gone rogue, many are calling for an end for respect to US intellectual property. Perhaps each country should have its own Uber, app store etc so that the cut can stay within our borders.
One case: Uber was charging 30% commission for managing rickshaw rides in India (a country with relatively low purchasing power per capita).
It was only after domestic options like Rapido or Namma Yatri undercut them that they moved to a subscription based model, charging drivers 20 to 40 rupees daily, rather than taking an exorbitant commission of 30% per ride. To India’s credit, it has a robust IT sector located in one of its major cities (Bangalore) which helps promote competition in this case.
we simply don’t have the workers
And the US is deporting a lot of it’s workforce for not being white enough.
This is the thing that makes no sense. All the thinking stops at bring jobs back to the US.
Okay, raw material issues aside, what are these jobs?
They are jobs that left because it was so cheap to do it overseas that it still makes financial sense to ship the product here after it’s made.
NOONE IN THE US IS DOING THAT JOB FOR THAT MONEY HERE.
My Trump voting uncle had nothing to say when he was talking about how all the jobs were going to come back to the USA and I asked him if he wants him or any of his kids picking peaches in California for $7.50 an hour. Who exactly does he think will do these jobs when all the immigrants who are trying to establish themselves here are gone? He did not surrender the point being a good MAGAt but you can tell he had not thought about it in the slightest.
We could theoretically figure out some way to do it with automation. The problem is it would take a decade to figure out and there’s zero chance these tariffs last that long.
AI will make it come true, promised! (/s, just in case)
AI told me I could solve all this with AI
The whole plan
“Plan” is a strong word to use for this.
Oh they know that Americans won’t work at factories. That’s not their goal.
They want to bring manufacturing back the the US, it just won’t be humans doing the manufacturing, it will be robots.
There is a reason why this is not the case already. It’s more expensive.
Not if you have prison labor. Then robots are less needed just jail more peeps and send em to the new gulags.
If you jail the robots then you don’t have to pay them either.
You can make Americans design and watch a machine that sews $15 jeans. But tariffs won’t help with that if all the machine parts are more expensive too.
There was also the McKinley Tariff of 1890 that is taxed foreign imports at almost 50% and caused increased prices and consumer backlash and lead to Democrats winning Congress in a landslide.
But this one is different… … … I just can’t remember how… but I know they said this one is different, so it must be… right?..
Edit: autocorrect
Glorious leader is a billionaire. We will be fine. He won’t even take a paycheck!!
He’s so generous and kind. A modern day Hercules you could say.
Thanks for the insight, stacy! By the way, why are you still posting on a nazi platform? Oh for internet points? Cool, cool.
Edit: Damn, there’s more nazis on Lemmy than I thought.
Because that’s the platform that needs to hear it
Circlejerk preaching to the choir is fun, but doesn’t reach the people who need to hear it
You’re right, we should send Bernie to CPAC. Bet he’ll win over lots of hearts and minds.
I mean… yes
I honestly want to see this.
That’s what Teamsters did at the RNC and people were far more angry at Teamsters than Republicans happy at hearing a working class message.
It’s better than sending him to a room full of people who already aggrees with him. It’s kind of the point
That is the goal in a functioning democracy. That description no longer applies to the US. Our country’s voter base is made up of political illiterates, our new voters get less educated every year, and our elected officials and their oligarch counterparts are running at full tilt in an attempt to normalize and formalize flagrant disregard for our constitution.
Which means it’s even more important for charismatic people to talk to the proverbial “other side”, because they don’t have any other ways to hear the information they don’t know they need.
Only if you send him with a fucking machine gun. Although bless him, he would never be into that.
I so wish he hadn’t been prevented from being president by the corrupt democrats.
Yeah that’s bullshit rationalization. You don’t pay nazis to advertise anti-nazi sentiment.
Edit: Damn, there’s more nazis on Lemmy than I thought.
As a rule, Lemmings are steadfastly against any course of action that might make an actual difference. They’ll post about guillotines and green Mario until the cows come home, since no one actually expects them to act on that sort of thing, but whenever anyone suggests anything that a typical person could actually do it’s nothing but excuses.
It’s cause you’re over at lemmy.world
It’s the largest, and therefore has the most mainstream people, who tend to be some flavor of liberal
In theory, joining any server gets you the whole federation experience… In practice, your home server will greatly affect discovery and shape what kind of people you encounter most
It appears the extent of their participation is spewing vitriol and clicking downvote buttons. lol
Meanwhile, I’m going to a capital protest tomorrow. Those of you doing things, KEEP RESISTING THESE FUCKS.
Lemmingspeople in general
The definition of stupidity is to try things that failed in the past again in the hope to get a better result.
Insanity actually
I’d like to see U.S become so weak that Natives are able to reclaim their land. Imagine them scalp those nazi regime supporting mfers. Brings a happy tear in my eye.
I theorize that this is why most/all US leaders have been pro-Israel. Because if they were anything else, the native population would be like “hey, so what about us and our stolen lands?” and US leaders will absolutely not deal with that.
I’m pretty sure it’s the money. If minority groups were lobbying just as hard to both parties, the populist leaders would switch.
300 years of the US not giving a shit about the native population or about appearing hypocritical towards them would argue with your theory.
There’s not a single US leader who worries what Native Americans would say if they turned against Israel. They would just ignore them like they always have.
Yes, that! Also for me U.S seems to think that somehow everyone from Middle-East is a terrorist, even though that they are the worst terrorists themselves alongside Russia and Israel.
